What to think about the intelligence of Dolphins...

Ok, I was doing a little research on Dolphins and wanted to share it with all of you.

There are things that are quite interesting about them.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a5d0fb505b06.jpg[/atsimg]

Dolphins Intelligent, Self-Aware: “Well Above Chimps and Apes” -Researchers Cite Ethics Issues

www.groundreport.com...

Quote from source:
Just what do we think makes us so smart??

Well, lots of things. We have big, convoluted brains with many specialized nerve cell types; we have language and can understand symbols; we spend many years growing up within large, extended family and social networks; and, perhaps most importantly, we have a sense of self, and a sense of the ‘selves’ of others, including their emotions.
We are not alone in any of these attributes. Chimpanzees and apes have many obvious parallels, albeit each more modest than any similar skill in humans.
But it is actually dolphins and whales that come closest to us in most if not all of our “higher” attributes, easily surpassing the expression of them seen in the great apes.

So, Dolphins are closer in intelligence to us then one of our closest ancestors, Chimps. Very interesting indeed as when we look at our great ape breathern, we see humanistic characteristics.

Dolphins, on many occasions have surprised us. In their ability to identify each other with specific names, their ability to identify other pods and change their own tones of whistles and ability to be self aware and even recognize themselves in mirrors.

Dolphins Name Themselves With Whistles, Study Says;
news.nationalgeographic.com...

Dolphins Recognize, Admire Themselves in Mirrors, Study Finds;
news.nationalgeographic.com...



Dolphin Self-Recognition Mirrors Our Own

www.scientificamerican.com...

Quote from source:
Whether we're assessing our physiques or checking for food stuck in our teeth, most of us consult a mirror regularly to make sure we appear the way we expect. Though it may seem an unremarkable feat, the ability to recognize oneself in the mirror is actually exceptionally rare among animals. Indeed, only humans and their closest kin, the great apes, have shown this capacity, suggesting that factors specific to great apes and humans drove its evolution. Findings announced today in the early online edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, however, indicate that we and our primate relatives are not alone. According to the report, dolphins, too, exhibit mirror self-recognition.

To test for dolphin self-awareness, Diana Reiss of Columbia University and Lori Marino of Emory University exposed two bottlenose dolphins to reflective surfaces after marking the dolphins with black ink, applying a water-filled marker (sham-marking) or not marking them at all. The team predicted that if the dolphins which had prior experience with mirrors recognized their reflections, they would not show social responses; they would spend more time in front of the mirror when marked; and they would make their way over to the mirror more quickly to inspect themselves when marked or sham-marked. The experiments bore out all three predictions in both dolphin subjects. Moreover, the animals even selected the best reflective surface available to view their markings.

Dolphins also have traditions that are culturally passed on to their kin, which is a human characteristic bahavior. Some pods have very specific behaviors, from helping fishermen catch fish in brazil.



From them helping out other animals;



So, this is what I am getting down to;

Are Dolphins Also Persons?

abcnews.go.com...

Quote from source:

Do other animals ponder the stars and wonder about the universe? Probably not. But research shows that dolphins can at least think about the future.

Findings like that have led some distinguished scientists and ethicists to suggest we need to rethink our role as humans. It turns out we are not alone, and we didn't need to journey into space to find out.

Thomas I. White of the Oxford Centre for Animal Ethics and Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles told the AAAS session that dolphins should be regarded as "non-human persons," a phrase that has caught on among some scientists.

"Like humans, dolphins appear to be self-conscious, unique individuals with distinctive personalities, memories and a sense of self, who are vulnerable to a wide range of physical and emotional pain and harm, and who have the power to reflect upon and choose their actions," White told an audience that lingered long after the session had ended because participants wanted to discuss the issue further.

When we consider all the things about dolphins and their intelligence, they should be deemed "persons." If caught harming a dolphin or killing one, that person or persons should be held criminally accountable as if they are killing a human being.

These "persons" think about their future and are very close to their famililes, sounds a lot like us, and so in turn should be treated a lot like us.

I am sick and tired of our ignorant species thinking that humans are somehow above other living creatures. How we exploit them for our own benefits and gains and yet do not think twice about this.

I have compassion for all animals and think the harming of animals is a horrible thing, but, anything that is close in intelligence to us needs to be looked at in a different light.

I look forward to hearing other opinions on this subject.

Pred...

I think that Dolphins might be more qualified to be called persons than human beings are.

Seriously, though.
Dolphins are extremely intelligent. I have been waiting for a study to come out that has somehow gauged their intelligence side by side with our own. Would it be shocking to find that they are smarter than us?
If they were discovered to be so, would they be treated differently by us?

They are beautiful and fascinating creatures nonetheless.

Douglas Addams aside...do you think its possible?

Originally posted by InertiaZero
I think that Dolphins might be more qualified to be called persons than human beings are.

Seriously, though.
Dolphins are extremely intelligent. I have been waiting for a study to come out that has somehow gauged their intelligence side by side with our own. Would it be shocking to find that they are smarter than us?
If they were discovered to be so, would they be treated differently by us?

They are beautiful and fascinating creatures nonetheless.

Douglas Addams aside...do you think its possible?

Absolutely, how could we possibly know that though? We are limited by the capacity of our own brains.

We will find out they are on par with us though, there is no question about that in my mind.

But, the sad thing is though people think that our big cities and space travel are what makes us so intelligent. So they take that part of intelligence away from them, it makes them less intelligent in their eyes.

Thanks for the reply.

Pred...

reply to post by predator0187

Yes, Dolphins are very intelligent and probably closer to us than we really know. Let's just hope to hell they are smart enough to not grow legs and deposit money in a bank or subscribe to our stupid political system.

But maybe they are actually smarter than us, they generally seem happier and isn't that what it's all about. They don't kill out of greed or malice, they don't appear jealous or envious, they are helpfull and generous, they just survive and are happy within their own skin. I'd come back next time around as a dolphin if it weren't for the Japanese killing them off. Actually, maybe because the Dolphins are sentient, are self aware and have language, killing them should be murder and killing them en masse, genocide. I'd agree with that.

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by predator0187

Originally posted by InertiaZero
I think that Dolphins might be more qualified to be called persons than human beings are.

Seriously, though.
Dolphins are extremely intelligent. I have been waiting for a study to come out that has somehow gauged their intelligence side by side with our own. Would it be shocking to find that they are smarter than us?
If they were discovered to be so, would they be treated differently by us?

They are beautiful and fascinating creatures nonetheless.

Douglas Addams aside...do you think its possible?

Absolutely, how could we possibly know that though? We are limited by the capacity of our own brains.

We will find out they are on par with us though, there is no question about that in my mind.

But, the sad thing is though people think that our big cities and space travel are what makes us so intelligent. So they take that part of intelligence away from them, it makes them less intelligent in their eyes.

Thanks for the reply.

Pred...

Absolutely. Our structures and formulas make us intelligent.
However, we kill each other based on beliefs and land.

Dolphins will not leave a wounded family member behind. That is why the stab a single dolphin when they are hunting them. The whole pod will gather around, and you can wrangle them all up easily and neatly in nets.

Sounds like they are a bit smarter, to me.

Great thread!!

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


Thanks for the reply.

There have been reports of Dolphins with anger issues.



But doesn't that make them more human-like?

Pred...

There are some things that suggest that dolphins aren't intelligent in other areas:

They don't tend to jump over nets, even when they are easily physically capable of doing so. I'm not talking about fishing nets, but the nets that pen them in before they are slaughtered in the cove in Japan, and netting that separates pools while they are in captivity.

They have also been known to rescue a human from a shark attack, which is extremely unintelligent behaviour.
Both humans and sharks are potential predators, so to try and save one - who might be out to harm the dolphin - is not very bright.
The intelligent thing to do, would be to leave the human and shark to fight it out, while the dolphin got as far away as possible, rather than risking life and limb ( or flipper LOL ).


Intelligence is largely unquantifiable, and it's difficult enough to assess a human's intelligence, yet alone any animal. Intelligence isn't one finite, holistic concept; there are a myriad of individual facets that make up ''intelligence'' as a whole.

While I'm certainly not saying that dolphins are stupid, I'm pointing out that they may display what we perceive as high intelligence in some aspects of their behaviour, but equally display aspects of low intelligence in others.

One of the main problems with defining intelligence in animals, is the fact that it's almost impossible not to anthropomorphise their traits.
A lot of dolphin behaviour is reminiscent of a human child, which endears them to many people, who then make an emotionally biased assessment of their intelligence and status.

I'm very much against treating animals according to their looks and 'cuteness', and any attitudes that support selective animal welfare based on these factors.

I think that there should be a ban on all animals in captivity, including dolphins, as it's very cruel imprisoning them in such a small area, just for the amusement and entertainment of humans.

reply to post by predator0187


Indeed, much of our perception of our own intelligence focuses on what we have achieved through our ability to manipulate our enviornment, to adapt our enviornment to ourselves rather than the evolutionary adaption of ourselves to the enviornment. However this gift of manipulation is born merely out of the fact that we have opposable thumbs, our vast intelligence and technologcal achievement rests on a tripod; the hand-eye-frontal lobe axis. Although this triad is particularly useful for us, it is not the exclusive measure of what intelligence is, for all we know a dolphin could have the equivalent of an IQ of 200...the problem is how are you supposed show anyone how smart you are when you're stuck with two flippers and a tail??

reply to post by predator0187

What to think about the intelligence of Dolphins

Magical!
I have always been in awe of these creatures and the more I learned about them growing up, the more admiration I gained. I think they are comparatively intelligent as us, able to harbor emotions, communicate, be self aware, creative and playful. These reasons are why it breaks my heart and enrages me to learn of their slaughtering and disregard as highly sentient co-inhabiters of our planet. Of course I am referring mainly to the doc The Cove! I could not even watch it all the way through and it is blatant ignorance and blind pursuit of profits that blinds people from honoring these beings.
Don't forget about their success in working with autistic people too. I hope one day we can better communicate with them to learn and gain more respect overall, as a civilization of Earthlings.

I'm sure many have seen this, but for those that have not, witness sentience on display here:


Peace,
spec

erm.. as this may look funny and kind of cool to us now, think of what may happen, when they finally realise what we have done, while they we're swimming around and not even considering the fact there would be some guys doing very questionable stuff on the surface. They didn't even know that there is surface..lol..imagine there would be a suface over the earth^^... well, we should get ready for reasoning about throwing junk in the water with some species, that hopefully will forgive us...otherwise there could be a war we can't win.

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
I'd come back next time around as a dolphin if it weren't for the Japanese killing them off.

Or maybe you could go back as dolphin and help device a plan with them to evade or possibly repel the Japanese? Or if you got plenty of money, rescue them from trouble... The ocean is big place that's why you need lots of money to mount such an effort.