Palestinian firefighters come to Israel's aid

Originally posted by dontreally
you would understand that 99.99 % of palestinians absolutely despise Israel.

An update for your twisted views ... I am not Arab and I despise Israel.

It's not just Arabs that despise Israel, a high percent of all other races, religious groups, and populouses everywhere despise Israel.

And I'm talking Israel, not Jews.

Originally posted by bigyin
And I'm talking Israel, not Jews.

And to a palestinian living in Palestine, is there a difference?

How are my views twisted? im simply looking at the political reality the palestinians live in, and basing my response to this 'humanitarian effort' on their part, to their ongoing desire to achieve a palestinian state...And no, palestines dont simply just want a state. They want a PALESTINIAN STATE, without Jews. They want Jews out of there. Gone. As Helen Thomas said - as a liberal, "go back to germany" (the very place where they were massacred - very kind of her to say that). You Liberals may think palestinians want a 'two state solution'. They do not. They want the Jews gone. DEAD if they have to.

Thus, in light of that knowledge, and the massive demonization of Jews, Judaism and Israel in their media (again, a simply remarkable fact for a supposed 'oppressed' people. Its gotta be the first case in human history where the oppressed are given full freedom to demonize their 'oppressors' through their media) its much more likely that this was done for political reasons, than out of love.

Im sorry. Thats politics for you.

I myself am a very religious and spiritual person, who has respect for Islam (to submit) and Allah (from the aramaic Elah, which is derived from the Hebrew Eloah). I dont doubt that there are good muslims. However, in Palestine? not when theyre being taught a radical Islam. Not when Hamas - which in itself means 'lawlessness' in Hebrew, is the controlling power in palestine.

This is Logic. If you have a hard time understanding this, than youre being unreasonable, and biased.

Originally posted by gravitational
Anyway, I thought this was a thread of love and hope, yet it turned into the usual 'Satanic Zionists' and Israelis are not real Jews pretty quickly.

Morale of the videos in my opinion is that this story isn't black and white, as many people, especially here on ATS, like to portray it. There good and bad people on both sides. Personally, I don't really understand why most people feel a need to choose a side. The conflict is too complicated for that.

However, that doesn't change my opinion that the Israeli government consists of some very evil monsters, backed by a large number of Israelis. Then again, there are plenty of Israelis who simply want to live in peace (and they've got every right to live and defend their country). Additionally, terrorist organizations such as Hamas are good for absolutely nothing - they care about everything but the interest of the people from Gaza.

Originally posted by dontreally
Now, these palestinian arabs, are PALESTINIAN. If any of you even had even a minute, a tiny appreciatio of human psychology, and the affect media, and conditioning, has on the collective psyche, you would understand that 99.99 % of palestinians absolutely despise Israel. Have you even met an Arab in your Life? JESUS. I live in Toronto. I deal with Arabs all the time. They are very far from being reasonable people.

You are generalizing and seem to me as a brainwashed person. How could you possibly say that Arabs are far from reasonable? It's like saying that all Germans were Nazi's. Although I agree that many Palestinians despise Israel, it also applies the other way around: in Israel, the propaganda machine teaches children that all Palestinians are terrorists while Palestinians are thought that Jews are evil and cannot be trusted.

Originally posted by Mdv2

Originally posted by gravitational
Anyway, I thought this was a thread of love and hope, yet it turned into the usual 'Satanic Zionists' and Israelis are not real Jews pretty quickly.

Morale of the videos in my opinion is that this story isn't black and white, as many people, especially here on ATS, like to portray it. There good and bad people on both sides. Personally, I don't really understand why most people feel a need to choose a side. The conflict is too complicated for that.

However, that doesn't change my opinion that the Israeli government consists of some very evil monsters, backed by a large number of Israelis. Then again, there are plenty of Israelis who simply want to live in peace (and they've got every right to live and defend their country). Additionally, terrorist organizations such as Hamas are good for absolutely nothing - they care about everything but the interest of the people from Gaza.

Apparently people dont seem to give a S*** that Hamas bulldozes palestinian houses. The very things israel is demonized for, they do, to their own people.

They also teach their children about warfare, and the morality of suicide bombing.

Nothing like this exists in Israeli Media. Israel infact contributes more to palestinian welfare than any other state tied to the UN humanitarian programs.

So honestly, what is this thing all about??

Is the government of Israel, evil? Yes. So are the European, American governments. Even moreso! since they deflect all criticism from them on Israel (and the idiotic corrupt leaders there - peres, natanyahu, barak supreme court etc) enable them by doing evil things.

Do you think its right that Judaism, and jews are attacked in palestinian media? Does the Israeli media do the same? no they do not.

Sephardic Jews awhile back were used as guinea pigs by the Israeli government to test some radio-active material. This left thousands of sephardic Jews, most of them religious, very ill - Cancer, deformations ,etc.

The Israeli government is corrupt. But does that change the situation of the Jewish right to a state? not at all. They deserve it, and palestinians - who are an arab people, should live in an arab country. Hebrews, Jews, deserve Israel. They have prayed towards Jerusalem for 2000 years. Never stopping. Whether in Spain, morocco, france, Germany or Lithunaia, they have directed their hearts and prayers to Jerusalem, to the Temple mount. In addition to that, there has always been a Jewish presence in Israel - in Hebron, Sheckem, Gaza, Jerusalem, Beit-el, Bethlehem, Safed, Galilee.

it amazes me how people say 'the jews just walked in' when they have always been there. This isnt a case of what the russians did a few hundred years ago. Forcing millions of Germans and poles to move eastward. Where was the international outcry than? Of course. I forgot. Its only important today. Forget about the injustices of the past. Were all of sudden 'liberal and fair'.... What a nauseating lie that is.

Originally posted by Mdv2

Originally posted by gravitational
Anyway, I thought this was a thread of love and hope, yet it turned into the usual 'Satanic Zionists' and Israelis are not real Jews pretty quickly.

Morale of the videos in my opinion is that this story isn't black and white, as many people, especially here on ATS, like to portray it. There good and bad people on both sides. Personally, I don't really understand why most people feel a need to choose a side. The conflict is too complicated for that.

However, that doesn't change my opinion that the Israeli government consists of some very evil monsters, backed by a large number of Israelis. Then again, there are plenty of Israelis who simply want to live in peace (and they've got every right to live and defend their country). Additionally, terrorist organizations such as Hamas are good for absolutely nothing - they care about everything but the interest of the people from Gaza.

Originally posted by dontreally
Now, these palestinian arabs, are PALESTINIAN. If any of you even had even a minute, a tiny appreciatio of human psychology, and the affect media, and conditioning, has on the collective psyche, you would understand that 99.99 % of palestinians absolutely despise Israel. Have you even met an Arab in your Life? JESUS. I live in Toronto. I deal with Arabs all the time. They are very far from being reasonable people.

You are generalizing and seem to me as a brainwashed person. How could you possibly say that Arabs are far from reasonable? It's like saying that all Germans were Nazi's. Although I agree that many Palestinians despise Israel, it also applies the other way around: in Israel, the propaganda machine teaches children that all Palestinians are terrorists while Palestinians are thought that Jews are evil and cannot be trusted.

edit on 6-12-2010 by Mdv2 because: (no reason given)

Are you serious?

Israeli media teaches Israelis palestinians are terrorists?

REALLY? You do realize the very first news outlet to report this palestinian good samaritan stunt was the Jerusalem Post. Have you read HaAretz? do you have any idea how anti-israeli interests they are? You will never find another example of a newspaper which is so selfhating as the HaAretz. Israel may have some anti-palestinian media. But its much more ambivalent than in palestine. In palestine, Jews themselves, and Judaism, are cast as evil.

The propaganda is very different. Right now Natanyahu has embraced the 'two state solution'. Is that in Israelis interest? no, it isnt. Does natanyahu care what israelis want? no, he doesnt.

If you can find for me a comparable case of GROSS, that is, blatant, and malicious distortion of palestinians in Israeli media, thats akin to the stuff at PALwatch.org, i will aquiesce. If you cant, than i guess ive proved my point. Palestinians are subjected to a program of hate that only has a parallel in Nazi Germany.

Originally posted by dontreally
Apparently people dont seem to give a S*** that Hamas bulldozes palestinian houses. The very things israel is demonized for, they do, to their own people.

Please, provide some sources. Although Hamas is a terrorist organization, I don't see why they would bulldoze Palestinian houses? So that they could construct Palestinian settlements within the open prison called Gaza? Israel, on the other hand, allows these f*cked up settlers to destroy and occupy the properties of Palestinians on a large scale and if necessary, allow them to murder their owners.

They also teach their children about warfare, and the morality of suicide bombing.

Nothing like this exists in Israeli Media. Israel infact contributes more to palestinian welfare than any other state tied to the UN humanitarian programs.

Don't be naive. It might not be so straightforward as Hamas does, but we all know Israel has the most effective propaganda machine on earth. They are very good at brainwashing people and exploiting examples of Palestinian terrorists attacks to stigmatize the Palestinian people as a whole.

Is the government of Israel, evil? Yes. So are the European, American governments. Even moreso! since they deflect all criticism from them on Israel (and the idiotic corrupt leaders there - peres, natanyahu, barak supreme court etc) enable them by doing evil things.

Sigh. Please, show me a track record of violations against humanities and war crimes committed by European governments. Let's start with this former IDF captain:

Do you think its right that Judaism, and jews are attacked in palestinian media? Does the Israeli media do the same? no they do not.

They have no reason, instead they manipulate the US. Have a look at a quality documentary and my signature:



You tell me, what's worse. Doing it in stealth mode or out in the open?


You tell me what's worse, and please refrain from responding if you don't bother to watch it.

reply to post by Mdv2


http://w ww.examiner.com/middle-eastern-policy-in-los-angeles/shameless-hypocrisy-watch-hamas-bulldozes-palestinian-homes-without-permits

http: //www.washington-report.org/component/content/article/357/9734-bureaucracy-vs-occupation-hamas-government-bulldozes-gazans-homes-.html

Just type it into google. "Hamas bulldozes palestinian houses"

Doesnt get much mainstream coverage, of course.

HI all,

Actually, in my opinion, its' great to read many Countries including Palestine, are helping with Israel's Fire emergency. Bravo to all the help !!

Decoy

I no longer care about politics, because most politicians are liars, just concerned about their power and their pockets. Everywhere you'll find people in governments, that rather like to sacrifice their own people instead of losing just one inch of their power.

I just care for humans, and the bitter truth is, there are victims on both sides. There are israeli victims, and there are palestinian victims. And as long as people keep claiming there are just evil palestinians or just evil israeli, the murdering of innocent people will keep on happening.

As a previous poster said, there is no black and white in this world.

And only god knows what catastrophic events like the fire in Israel will have to happen, until we all finally realize, that we're all the same, of one colors blood.

This hate and fear mongering has to come to an end, or one day we all will face a really bitter end!!!

reply to post by dontreally


Nice, selective answering. That's where the discussion stops for me.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Stories such as this, at face value, do indeed scream "hope". I would that every nation were this caring. If there is an ulterior motive, it matters little, because the bottom line is that the Palestinians, after everything the corrupt Israeli government has done, have chosen of their own free will to assist the people of Israel in time of need.

I want to point out that I believe there are dangerous individuals and extremists on both sides, but I sincerely wonder if Israel would have helped Palestinians in the same situation...

reply to post by dontreally


Of course you are twisted. You are believing your own BS.

You bang on about Hammas as if they are the main problem. Hammas was voted in by Palestinians in response to the vicious treament they recieved from Israel.

So Israel is the problem, not Hammas.

You might be correct that some Hammas live life of luxery or recieve money from EU or whatever, but the fact remains if it wasn't for the horrors perpetrated on them by Israel they would not exist today.

Israel created the problem ..... and will suffer the consequences of their actions ... thats how it is, and until people like you admit it the violence will continue.

Peaceful Jews and others have known this all along and have campaigned for Israel to back off or even to go away. Before Israel was created and for a little while after Muslims and Jews lived together in what was supposed to be a 2 state existence with a lot of crossover.

Israel has rejected this setup from day one and spread out like a cancer, murdering, killing, lying, decieving, jailing, torturing, anything to get what they want.

And you complain because the Palestinians dare to try to stand their ground.

Your absolutely pathetic

reply to post by dontreally


Dude.... please watch this video


I really do not want to take the "HOPE" aspect out of this thread, but you are painting an incorrect picture and of course that doesn't help the "hope" aspect whatsoever!

Please watch the entire video and let us know what your thoughts on it is!

Thanx

Originally posted by randomname
when they spend all their money on apache helicopters to kill palestinians and bulldozers to demolish their homes you have no money left to stop a simple brush fire from turning into a gigantic firestorm.

irony: israeli's being forced to evacuate their homes for once.

They have had more fires this year. Ran out of flame retardant.

Imagine the irony. Helping out in other countries zones of disaster. Evacuations, medical treatment and anti-terror expertise. I think they are still in Haiti

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by dontreally

 

Of course you are twisted. You are believing your own BS.

You bang on about Hammas as if they are the main problem. Hammas was voted in by Palestinians in response to the vicious treament they recieved from Israel.

So Israel is the problem, not Hammas.

You might be correct that some Hammas live life of luxery or recieve money from EU or whatever, but the fact remains if it wasn't for the horrors perpetrated on them by Israel they would not exist today.

Israel created the problem ..... and will suffer the consequences of their actions ... thats how it is, and until people like you admit it the violence will continue.

Peaceful Jews and others have known this all along and have campaigned for Israel to back off or even to go away. Before Israel was created and for a little while after Muslims and Jews lived together in what was supposed to be a 2 state existence with a lot of crossover.

Israel has rejected this setup from day one and spread out like a cancer, murdering, killing, lying, decieving, jailing, torturing, anything to get what they want.

And you complain because the Palestinians dare to try to stand their ground.

Your absolutely pathetic

edit on 6-12-2010 by bigyin because: (no reason given)

Have yuo ever heard of the balfour declaration? Palestine rejected a 2 state solution. They went to war with Israel backed by Egypt and Jordan. They all lost; and as in all wars, the victor wins the land hes gained.

So, do you get how twisted that is? The loser palestinians now want the two state solution, after forfeiting that possibility 50 years ago? No people ever on the face of this earth has gotten such treatment that the palestinans are getting.

I dont think you get how sly anti-israel propaganda is.

In any case, im tired of arguing this. My point is still valid, and it remains the same. The palestinians who did this come from a country where anti-israeli rhetoric is remarkably intense. It is simply impossible for them to have any warm feelings for Israelis. It was done for political reasons, and evidently it has won its effect. All the dumb liberals are gushing about the niceness of the palestinians. "look - atleast their making an effort"...

That is such a sad, infantile naivete.

I would love for all of us to get along. Jew, Christian and muslim. But in this highly politicized world, and especially in a highly politicized region like the middle east, things dont operate that way.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

I really do not want to take the "HOPE" aspect out of this thread, but you are painting an incorrect picture and of course that doesn't help the "hope" aspect whatsoever!

Please watch the entire video and let us know what your thoughts on it is!

Thanx

Umm right. so what is noam chomasky? is he the authority on everything political? This is the same guy who doubted for so long that the US government allowed 9/11 to happen.

I dont trust Noam Chomsky. Hes just another self hating liberal Jew.

reply to post by dontreally


Haha, a self-hating Jew? Do you know Avraham Burg? He is the former chairman of the World Zionist Organization.
Is he a self-hating Zionist Jew? Look what he's got to say about Hamas and Lieberman.

Originally posted by dontreally
I dont trust Noam Chomsky. Hes just another self hating liberal Jew.

There's no middle ground for you
If one disagrees with Israel's foreign policy they are an anti-semite, despite palestinians being semites themselves

If a jewish person disagrees then he is a self-hating jew

My friend, your mentality is your own worst enemy!

God bless those people, Fighting for their brethren even when looked down upon by their neighbor... God is here, God is great.

Originally posted by Mdv2
reply to post by dontreally

 

Haha, a self-hating Jew? Do you know Avraham Burg? He is the former chairman of the World Zionist Organization.
Is he a self-hating Zionist Jew? Look what he's got to say about Hamas and Lieberman.

edit on 6-12-2010 by Mdv2 because: (no reason given)

Im of the opinion, that any Jew who embraces western democratic ideals, and rejects Judaism, is a self hating Jew, who in no way serves the interests of the state of Israel or the Jewish people. They may be decent people, but they do not like their "jewishness". They want to assimilate and be like everyone else. Therefore making being Jewish an "ethnic" thing. Being Jewish is not Ethnic, but religious. Any gentile can convert and become a Jew. Conversely, an indian cant convert and become a German.

Im a religious zionist. I have already stated that i do not support the current government of Israel. Things went downhill the day Moshe Dayan gave the Temple Mount to the Arabs. They are as corrupt as the government which controls america; and you can believe all you want that "israeli/zionist" interests control America. That simply isnt the truth. The european Noble houses, control both America, and Israel. The real power is in Rome, and Germany, and Switzerland and London. Not Jerusalem. Zionists are simply the cover. You know what i find funny? what do you think Zionism is? What do you think is teh goal of secular zionism? Why would the christian elite in america have any interest in a Jewish state?

Anyways. Im sure there are plenty of Good Jews who water down Judaism and think they honor their Jewishness. Thats fine. I personally think such people are being misled. If they knew better, and if they understood their Judaism, they wouldnt reject it. But in anycase, im not saying they are bad people (noam chomsky though may indeed by a corrupt consciously hating the tradition of his ancestors, Jew) im just saying theyre uncomfortable with the idea of being Jewish, and what it really entails.