Muslims celebrate the death of 40 Israelis in huge forest fire.

reply to post by babloyi


Seems nice enough, there's not even one mention of intercourse, although I wouldn't consider this an in depth source.

So what is the deal with the 72 virgins promised to martyrs?

reply to post by Eliad

There isn't. At least not in the reliable hadith. There are "companions" (and that certainly doesn't mean purely or even only sexual, although that might be part of it). There is no number mentioned. The term used is the non-gender inclusive, and is promised to all who enter heaven (man or woman), along with all the things mentioned in that article.

This is why I find FlyersFan's obsession so absurd. It focuses on one small thing, which isn't even outright mentioned, and she then claims that Islam is obsessed with it. It would be like claiming Judaism is obsessed with tailors because of it's restrictions on clothing, or that Buddhism is obsessed with Banyan trees- making a huge deal out of a relatively small non-issue.

reply to post by FlyersFan

not allowing half the population (women) out of the house, to learn to read

What degree do you have? Which University did you study your degree in?

This will be interesting.

Here in New Zealand Muslim women are more educated and successful than Muslim men. Study regarding NZ converts to Islam suggests it is always educated successful women who convert to Islam.

In America 4 women convert to Islam for one man.

Iran produces more women Engineers and Scientists than men. Actually they have more women studying science than men, more so than even Western nations.

Reality hurts, I know, that is why I suspect you gonna go, run, and sit on another chair.

Ta

reply to post by oozyism


The information you gave about the women is from 2006, so I am sure the numbers are a lot higher now.
Source


I think the argument was in regards to countries, afghanistan as an example, where extremists are in charge, educating females is a way to get dead. There have been teachers and students killed in areas of Afghanistan by Taliban forces simply because they taught females, and the females targeted for going to school.

Taliban suspected of poisoning female students

Taliban killing of students

10 Taliban arrested in acid attack on female students

These are a few articles for reference.

Originally posted by oozyism
I suspect you gonna go, run, and sit on another chair.

Only a muslim man would think that he could post his pro-Islamic propaganda without providing proof and expect the woman to run away. Provide STATISTICS from reliable sources to back up what you said. Links. Oh .. and provide proof that all women in Islamic countries are allowed an education and allowed to drive and allowed out of their homes without a male escort, etc etc.

Good luck with that.

Originally posted by Doujutsu
What part of MODERN history don't you understand

What part of reading the entire answer don't you understand? :shk:
I gave the history and I gave what is happening today. Open your damn eyes.

Islam still calls for world domination? Give me legitimate sources from Quran and hadiths to prove your point and how many millions or billions of it's follwers have fulfilled that requirement within the past 50-100 years?

Yes, islam STILL calls for world domination. It has since the beginning. No one has tossed out the Quran or the hadiths. They are all still there quoted by the Imams and the religion is still followed by the poor lil' buggers who believe it. Go read in full context .... (if I got any of the numbers wrong it's due to my glaucoma and so a typo ... but I think I got them right)

"He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." 61:9

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." 9:29

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty." 9:123

"I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" 8:12-13

"They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks." 4:89

"And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy." 8:59-60

"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." 9:5

"Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth from men their lessons by similtudes. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," 47:3-4

"Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost for Allah is with you," 47:35

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" 48:29

"Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise." 4:56

"For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies" 4:101

"Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive (or Jihad) against them with the utmost strenuousness" 25-52

"If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." 33:6-62

"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah" 8:39

"Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know" 8:60

"And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things." 33:27

"Strive hard (Jihad) against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed". 66:9,

Bukhari (52:177) - "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (8:387) - "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah

Muslim (20:4645) - " There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"

Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq: 992 - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."

And as far as what people think modernly ... In the name of Allah .. don't like this source? Prove the quotes wrong ...

Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless. Islam says: 'Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter their armies.'” -
The Ayatollah Khomeini

From the Philippines -
We may be small in number, but we have plenty fighting with us--the angels and the hand of Allah. We dream of an entire Islamic world, and we will achieve it. Allah is with us." Abu Sayyaf

From Algeria -
“But the coming Islamic caliphate country will not rise except at the hands of the fighting sect who raises the flag of Allah and Jihad.” - Salafi terrorist group

From Egypt -
"Allah is our objective, the Quran is our Constitution, the Prophet is our leader, Jihad is our way, and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations." - The Muslim Brotherhood

From India -
"Democracy is among the menaces we inherited from an alien government. It is part of the system we are fighting against… It is not possible to work within a democracy and establish an Islamic system… If Allah gives us a chance, we will try to bring in the pure concept of an Islamic Caliphate.'' - Hafiz Mohammad Saeed

BTW .. that Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt .. I think it's the same bunch that Obama just LOOOOOOOVES :shk: Not sure on that .. but I think so. Gotta' check it out more.

Assuming muslims will conquer the world if they become technologically advanced is not 'Facts' you fool.

best be careful about calling people who know better than you do .. 'fool'. Best not to throw stones when you live in a glass house. It's what their religion calls for. It's just that simple.

Who are you to tell people about how many children they should have whether they are educated or illeterate?

I have every right in the world to point out a powderkeg problem.
Overpopulation of uneducated radical idiots who bring the world down instead of bringing it up.
Common sense .. if you can't feed and educate 12 kids .. then don't have 12 kids.
If you can only afford to feed and educate two, then have two.
Otherwise you are just a burden on the world.

You can't claim to fight terrorism and islamic extremism when your best pal is the biggest terrorist.

Take that up with the corrupt politicians. I've got nothing to do with it.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
...if I got any of the numbers wrong it's due to my glaucoma and so a typo ... but I think I got them right

Hahahahahahha....so THAT is the excuse you're going to use to cover your lies? Nice! Also, sorry, but yes, you still got it wrong.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
"He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." 61:9

It'd be interesting to know what translation you used, considering how bad it is. None of the translations have it as "though the infidels may resist" and only one uses the word "victorious", (John Medows Rodwell's) and no serious scholar considers it a good translation. The word you mistranslated as "victorious" is "uzhiru", is better translated as "made apparent", as can be seen from other uses of the word throughout the Quran (like in 66:3 "...but when she informed others of it, and Allah made it apparent to him".. how on earth would you switch that for "and Allah made it victorious over him"?)

And you would do well to follow your own instructions and read the Surahs in context. You'd see that Surah 9 talks about an occasion of war. As is the part you quoted from Surah 8. The Quran is retelling something that happened where angels were sent to aid the muslims.

...This is too tiresome...you copy paste from some anti-islam hate site, and that is the end of your effort. I look up each reference, and while it is almost always an obvious fraud, it takes time, and I've got to sleep soon. I'll tackle the rest of your "quotes" later. I'll leave you with this:

Surah Maida (5:48)
To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

Goal of Islam is to dominate the world? No, I don't think so.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I gave the history and I gave what is happening today. Open your damn eyes.

Actually you haven't given any history except making empty claims and NO muslim country has invaded a non-muslim land today,killed all the non-muslims and established sharia law.

The verses you picked on has been refuted:

Islamic-shield

Islamawakened

Islam-online

muslimsmatters

Load Islam

Even some of the greatest orientalist couldn't prove islam as a violent religion, you are just a mere fly compare to them.

It's what their religion calls for. It's just that simple.

Common sense .. if you can't feed and educate 12 kids .. then don't have 12 kids.

Whether they can feed them or not, that's their problem.They are not exactly asking you to feed their kids so you have NO RIGHT to tell them about what they can and can't do.

Take that up with the corrupt politicians. I've got nothing to do with it.

So now the politicians have become corrupt because they don't meet your agenda?

Saudi makes it's money with it's oil and that same money is used to fund all the things you stand up against around the world.And guess what? It's your dollars.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Afghanistan is a war zone, and has been for a long time now, in war zones expect both women and men to be treated like Sh1t.

My mom is educated, she studied the sciences in Kabul University and became a teacher, before US started meddling in Afghanistan because they thought Communism was evil and bad and had to be destroyed, the same BS happened in Iran, in Iraq and dozens of other countries from South East Asia, to Africa, to east Asia, to Middle East, Central Asia and South America.

Maybe you should ask Chavez and other (anti-American) South American nations why they had the US so much.

reply to post by oozyism


Oozy .. I could not be more fed up with your scripted vomit.. You seriously need to be on a list! Your hate for the US is so outrageous! We get it ... Your a disgruntled, displaced Muslim fanatic. Your right and everyone is wrong! Everything you stand for is good ...and anyone that disagrees with you is bad. It is just a matter of time before you fall for the 72 virgins delusion and strap a coward vest on your chest!

Yes war zones are bad for both sexes... Why aren't the boys schools being poisoned? Why aren't they raping boys... Oh wait "dancing boys" The Islamic lunatics are raping them too!

Hurry up get on with the Jihad Oozy.. we are sick of hearing all of your hate!

reply to post by FlyersFan

Only a muslim man would think that he could post his pro-Islamic propaganda without providing proof and expect the woman to run away. Provide STATISTICS from reliable sources to back up what you said. Links. Oh .. and provide proof that all women in Islamic countries are allowed an education and allowed to drive and allowed out of their homes without a male escort, etc etc.

I told you exactly what you would do I told you that you would run and sit on another chair. Read the bold part, you actually sat on many chairs

I focused on one thing, so you can't run, and that was

Originally posted by

not allowing half the population (women)...to learn to read

I proved that was false, now you want to run and sit on the [won't allow (women) out of the house] & [won't allow women to drive] seat

Anyways I was talking about NZ, America and Iran.

As of 2006, women account for well over half of university students in Iran[23] and 70% of Iran's science and engineering students.

en.wikipedia.org...'s_rights_in_Iran

Iran is an Islamic nation unfortunately

4 women convert to Islam for 1 man in US

I bet you will scratch your face when and scream from rage by watching the video, duuh, your hate is obvious

Regarding New Zealand Muslim being more educated and successful than men, my family is the example.

Two of my sisters are studying in University (Otago) both studying to become doctors (A- average marks), my oldest sister already finished pharmaceutics, a month ago she bought her second car. She is working in the mall.

My second big brother dropped out of school.

My youngest sister is studying in highs school, gained the highest academic award for her school in 2008 and 2009. She was in the news paper last year I think for her achievements.

My big-big brother is still struggling with studying architecture blablabla...
Me, well I always loved computers, in that sense following my passion, I just gained my Bachelors degree in Computer Science - the Networking branch.

I'm in contact with Muslim families, I see that women are usually way more educated and successful than men and that they are much more independent, men are Dependant to women.

By the way,

the Quran says it is the duty of both men and women to gain knowledge

Originally posted by Resurrectio
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

FLYERSFAN..STOP IT.... You forgot pedophile AGAIN!!!

To Douj:- She is right.. You are lying. Show me one question or point that she hasn't addressed or answered. How can you blatently lie like that?

Well..I dont know about Douj, but Im still awaiting a retraction if not apology regarding the Palestinan doctors issue from about 5 pages ago:/ Flyer made a comment to the effect that there were none..and no intellectuals teachers or scientists suffering under the regime or that were murdered or run out of town etc etc etc I provided evidence she was wrong. And there were other links provided to her in that post which countered several other comments she made in opposition to my own post..... but no..not a peep....only back to 'hate all islam' comments that were off topic anyway:/

A lie of omission is still a lie isnt it?


Rosha

Originally posted by Resurrectio
reply to post by oozyism

 

Oozy .. I could not be more fed up with your scripted vomit.. You seriously need to be on a list! Your hate for the US is so outrageous! We get it ... Your a disgruntled, displaced Muslim fanatic. Your right and everyone is wrong! Everything you stand for is good ...and anyone that disagrees with you is bad. It is just a matter of time before you fall for the 72 virgins delusion and strap a coward vest on your chest!

Yes war zones are bad for both sexes... Why aren't the boys schools being poisoned? Why aren't they raping boys... Oh wait "dancing boys" The Islamic lunatics are raping them too!

Hurry up get on with the Jihad Oozy.. we are sick of hearing all of your hate!

going way off topic...but trying to salvage something from this thread...

I wanted to write in and say that I am as disgusted and angered about paedophillia rape abuse and torture wherever it is happening and whoever is doing it for whatever reason - as much you or any reason able human being is and I for one am grateful that these things disgust others too, that means to me that we are getting somewhere as a species.

What needs (imo) to be understood though is that RELIGION isnt 'doing that'.

HUMAN BEINGS *using* religion as a justification for those crimes are responsible for those actions.

Imo, thats where the buck has to stop - at the crime and at the source of the action of the crime - the person committing it.

This is where the very interesting questions lie (interesting for me at least) as regards religion as a whole.

EVERY religion that has been flung to the earth or dredged up from its bowels for us to disect, reject or rattify has its own history of those who have abdicated personal responsibility and accountability, have perverted spiritual knowledge, overpowered and murdered the innocent, warred, twisted scripture and logic to suit themselves and harmed others with their less than spiritual actions. Every one of them.

There are just as many people involved in reglion who have NOT committed those crimes or condoned them in silence.

Again though, 'religion' isnt doing that, people using it as justifcation, have and are. On both sides.

So, the interesting questions ( for me ) become - Why do people need the justification of religion at all? Why are they using religion specifically as their primary justification to commit these otherwise very 'human' and otherwise "ordinary" human being crimes?

I do wonder what it is religion specifically 'has' that other forms of group process where these kinds of crimes are also committed, dont 'have', and I dont think its the God 'protection' factor in isolation. I think there's something more to it.

Why is it that these people do *need* the religion to justify, in order to commit the crime at all, where 'everyday' or 'regular' criminals from any group who are rapists, paedophiles, abusers torturers etc dont seem to need it at all and what makes these criminals, who share actions so closely, so different to each other?

One would also think give the conseqences set forth in most scripture of committing these crimes - a date with Gods own judgement and/or eternity in hell as oposed to a few years in a jail cell with 3 squares a day - would mean the opposite would be true, less people of faith would commit crime at all, but it isnt true. In fact its the opposite. And I personally find be they believer or not, criminals are pretty much the same regardless of their self view and I find it odd that to ask anyone these days, most dont agree - but cant explain why.

I also wonder why we ( the glorious peanut gallery) tend to differentiate between the two 'standards' of crime too. Ive noticed we do, a lot....('we' being an abstract term here not intentionally inclusive of any single person.)
In media, in propoganda, in practice..the distinction is always being made between the religious criminal and the 'regular' kind....I have to wonder if that isnt a set up some days....but for whom? To what end?
Is a distinction being made for a reason? A purpose? Sometimes, when a crime is reported this way, it's as if doing it ' in the name of God' somehow makes these crimes "worse" or "better" than a crime done '*for sh*ts and giggles* or for money or through socio/pyschopathy...and I dont get it. *shrugs*

Our society treats criminals of different 'types' reglious or non, so differently generally. Such as the pope protecting people who knew of abuses and didnt report them from prosecution, where in general society those same people in similar positions of authority are expect to report it, and would be sanctioned and punished if they did not.

So why do we permit this 'permissiveness' in this arena of our society and no where else? Politicians arent exempt..actors arent..you and I arent..so why do religous groups get afforded this caveat? Why do we give them this social blind spot...this 'distinction' of difference that makes it so easy for the latent criminal to pursue their desire for crime, hiding out in and using what would otherwise an inocuous social tool such as "religion" to do it?


A crime is a crime yes?

A person committing it, regardless of religous faith is still a "criminal" yes?


No?


Thoughts?


^..^

Rosha.

reply to post by oozyism


My post had nothing to do with a war zone. Even prior to the US invasioan, that was typical treatment by the Taliiban. The only reason it made the news after the invasion was because of people wanting to go to school, to become educated and make their lives better, which runs counter to the Taliban and their interpretation of the Quran. Also because there was more than one media outlet reporting the news.

Chavez has gone on record as to why he hates the US, or should I say US Government since he has attempted to help out some US states with break of fuel oil and what not. He is not a fan of democracy nor capitalism, and its evident by his policies, as well as his omments on the matter.

reply to post by babloyi


So if I understand correctly the religion has been changed in certain parts of the world to protect certain cultural habits, or advance certain political views?

Because this 72 virgin thing does exist..

I think the problem lays in the fact that not all Muslims follow the reliable, moderate hadith you follow.

Now, don't get me wrong, this isn't new, religion can make people do so much good, and it can make people do so much bad, and it's been used appropriately and inappropriately throughout history..

What I'm getting it is the way I see it- You're defending the Islam you know, which is just like any other religion, preaching for good deeds, and she's attacking the Islam you don't feel a part of, the Islam you don't consider reliable, the one that allows women to suffer, and people to kill in its name.

I don't see how any of you would ever find a common ground, as you're both talking about two different things.

In places where they allow the stoning of women these cultural habits existed before and after Islam- Islam didn't add the misogynism, it didn't add to it.. It's more likely that it has been altered to fit that culture and not the other way around.
This is why Islam in Singapore, or Denmark, or the U.S, or the U.K, or New Zealand isn't different from Christianity or Judaism- If you're a good person, you'll be a good person, no matter what religion you follow.

That's just what I think.

reply to post by Eliad

It certainly has, in some instances, but in this instance, the whole 72 virgin thing is in reference to a weak/inauthentic hadith in the Sunan al-Tirimizi, known for having collected inauthentic hadith (for the sake of "completion").

As far as vile cultural traditions and such go, I'm against them too! But when someone claims to be "against Islam", and uses these cultural traditions as proof of why, then I'm obviously going to point out that they're wrong.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by oozyism

 

My post had nothing to do with a war zone. Even prior to the US invasioan, that was typical treatment by the Taliiban. The only reason it made the news after the invasion was because of people wanting to go to school, to become educated and make their lives better, which runs counter to the Taliban and their interpretation of the Quran. Also because there was more than one media outlet reporting the news.

Chavez has gone on record as to why he hates the US, or should I say US Government since he has attempted to help out some US states with break of fuel oil and what not. He is not a fan of democracy nor capitalism, and its evident by his policies, as well as his omments on the matter.

edit on 9-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Taliban was the product of war, not the product of peace.

For you to act like Taliban was the product of peace is immensely mis-guided.

Why don't you even mention Afghanistan before the Taliban? Do you think Afghanistan didn't exist?

As I said previously, Taliban were the extremists supported by the US, against a moderate Muslim nation, where women could pursue education, the economy was stable, corruption was relatively low, the government was functioning fine, the army was doing good, blablablabla.

Everyone seems to forget the false teachings US thought those in the border region with the help of US.

I have a book from Pakistan which clearly shows false teachings, these books come from Saudi Arabia (US proxy state).

The book states that the punishment for Adultery is stoning, and it writes the Verse which says those who commit adultery must be stoned.

Then I went and opened my Quran, search for the chapter and verse number, guess what, it was an absolute Bullox, later I found out there was no stoning punishment in the Quran.

It really pissed me off and exposed a little reality to me.



Are you suggesting Chavez hates America (government DUUH) because Chavez doesn't like Capitalism or Democracy hahahahahaha

"America can't do no wrong" disease getting exposed. Maybe you should research about the US backed coup which occurred against Chavez or maybe you should research about the ruthless dictators US installed all over South America which caused massive suffering and hundreds of thousands of un-necessary deaths.

Ofcourse, keep your eyes shut.

reply to post by babloyi


Well, have you tried telling her that?

Instead of defending every Muslim out there, and every hadith, including the ones you believe to be fake, you should have just told her that some people interpret and twist Islam to advance their agenda and beliefs, be it a Jihad, stoning women, or anything else that's evil, and that you, in fact, agree with her, and condemn these actions in the name of Islam.

I mean, Christianity has different factions and translations of the bible, It shouldn't be that hard to understand.

That way not only do you change her views on Islam as a whole, but you also change the stereotype she has created.

reply to post by oozyism


For someone who is from the country of Afghanistan, you sure know little about your countries history. The Taliban were but one group of many that fought the Soviets. After the Soviet withdrawal different groups in Afghanistan vied for dominance, plunging the country back into chaos as the groups vied for control.

When Pakistan started to use the Taliban as security for some of there endeavors in country, they gained in popularity and clout, eventually seizing the Capital, and executing the former President who was put in place by the Soviets. Once Khandahar was in control they spread throughout the countryside, with their main rivals being the Northern Alliance.

Yes, the CIA assisted these groups by providing cash and weapons to fight off the Soviets. Once the soviets left, the resources dried up, and low and behold this is why Bin Laden got 10 types of torqued, because we had no intent of continuing to fund those types of groups becaue our goal was accomplished.

Now, whats your point?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by oozyism

 

For someone who is from the country of Afghanistan, you sure know little about your countries history. The Taliban were but one group of many that fought the Soviets. After the Soviet withdrawal different groups in Afghanistan vied for dominance, plunging the country back into chaos as the groups vied for control.

Yes, the product of WAR DUUUH.

When Pakistan started to use the Taliban as security for some of there endeavors in country, they gained in popularity and clout, eventually seizing the Capital, and executing the former President who was put in place by the Soviets. Once Khandahar was in control they spread throughout the countryside, with their main rivals being the Northern Alliance.

Go find out how Taliban came to power. There is a whole Wikipedia article about it, and apparently Pakistan had nothing to do with it.

Yes, the CIA assisted these groups by providing cash and weapons to fight off the Soviets. Once the soviets left, the resources dried up, and low and behold this is why Bin Laden got 10 types of torqued, because we had no intent of continuing to fund those types of groups becaue our goal was accomplished.

Now, whats your point?

My point still stands.

Afghanistan was a moderate nation until US started meddling in.

DUUUH.

Can you even refute that?

reply to post by oozyism


Exactly! People seem to blame muslims for everything yet they don't want to know the real hands behind the extremist islamists.

OBL and Wahabism were brought in by US from Saudi to defeat the Soviets.The Taliban were only usng those tools to further their extremist agenda and it's been proven time and time again that Saudis are funding their activities.

The root of the problem is Saudi, but you won't see them gettting attacked and you never will.

Maybe the recent $60 Bil Saudi/US F-22 deal can explain something?