Reversing The Roles Of God and Satan

Re the Illuminator

You wrote:

"???? im sorry but im not FORCED to do any of those things. God does not force himself onto you. you CHOOSE to love him and through your love you CHOOSE to pray to him and you CHOOSE to worship him"

It isn't that long ago, that church-going was compulsory; even to a specified denomination, not one of your own choice. By glad, that you live in a society, where you CAN make choices.

But in any case, I take it, that you're not talking about one of the Jehovases from one of the bibles. Because the bibles are allegedly the words of one of the Jehovases and they say, that you must worship him.

So just for the record and from academic interest: Which 'god' ARE you talking about?

From a later post of yours:

"God is never discribed as a Deceiver."

No, not by christians (that is if we after all are talking about one of the Jehovases). But quite a few outside the holy bubbles do so.

For the rest of your opinions: You are aware, that you basically are dishing out your subjective ideas as 'ultimate truths' without an ounce of evidence or explanation. Can I please also see you start on circle-argumentation in a reply. I LOVE circle-argumentation, my love for it goes even beyond my love of logic etc.

Originally posted by sykickvision
I'm sure you've heard it said: "Is god willing to prevent evil - but not able?...then he is not omnipotent; Is he able, but not willing?....then he is malevolent; Is he both willing and able?...then whence cometh evil?...Is he neither able nor willing?...Then WHY call him god?"

A very good question to be asking... And one that I believe any religious person would struggle to answer without blaming the decieving one for making you ask...

Not being religious, I think the answer is simply, because that is his name...

Why was the man called Frank?... Because that was his name!

reply to post by cj6

So i was thinking....is it possible that there has been a conspiracy since the beginning of mankind to reverse the roles of God and Satan??

Not necessarily 'reverse the roles', but reverse the interpretation for sure. Many of the early Church heresy wars were fought over just this idea.

The protagonists in the good/evil mythology scenarios have changed back and forth depending on interpretation. Many Gnostic sects understand the creator god as a 'lesser' being than the all encompassing, ineffable, unknowable GodHead, who stole a 'spark' of divinity from the Godhead (or the Aeon Sophia), created the physical universe, and 'lost' the spark of divinity to mankind, trapping it in the physical world. The Godhead, since its natural state is to encompass all divinity, seeks to provide avenues for the sparks to return, thus it periodically sends a Saviour to retrieve them. The first was the serpent in the Garden of Eden, another was Jesus.

Wikipedia has an article on theSethian Gnostics, There are others in a similar vein.

So you see in this mythology, the Old Testament Creator God, boastful, jealous, and wrathful could be interpreted in the role of the negative Satan role, while the serpent is just the first incarnation of the messiah. The post-creation story is the same, but it is interpreted entirely the opposite of the 'orthodox' interpretation because of the pre-creation story.

Had to add to the topic, has anyone brought up a middle path yet? I read some posts, parts of others, hadn't come across the mention of Eastern cultures primarily? (at least I would preferably call them cultures rather than stipulate them the religions of the East). I'm speaking more of Taoism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.. (I know these are technically viewed as religions, but I'd like to focus more on their cultural aspects for the present moment), not so much referring to middle eastern religions (being that such are identified as more a 'religion').

Without trying to quote or reiterate any philosophies from any of the such cultures or religions; but I'd like to communicate more of a general consensus. Along the lines of; coming from a position in the world, dualistic in nature, amongst both "good" and "evil," and through the course of life being able to establish a more formal and positive cumulative understanding of them expressed in your way of life.

Would it more or less matter if there are 2 previously established 'beacons' in one way or another, if what we're more or less doing is establishing our own lives in a more adaptive, benevolent culturally signified way? Not sure if this would be considered off topic or not. But I figured it was worth putting out there.

reply to post by tauschen


I think that I at least tried to brought up the middle path...

I said that:

Originally posted by v01i0
Besides of gnostics, it is quite evident from the Bible itself, that Satan and Jehovah are merely true god's left and right hand.

I tried to convey the idea of Ying and Yang..

-v

What I love most, personally, about devout Christians is when they win a race, or a bingo game, and they say it would never be possible without the strength of Jesus Christ in their lives or whatever. When there are all kinds of people winning things every day without the benefit of a personal savior. How did they do it without him?

reply to post by DeltaChaos


How about, "God works in mysterious ways."?
2nd

reply to post by Griffo


Yeah, that's another good one. Well of course God works in mysterious ways. How else could you avoid explaining the unexplainable, while still giving credit to the myth?

Originally posted by cj6
Satan is the way to true FREEDOM.

How can Satan be the way to true freedom when it is God who gives us freewill?

Originally posted by spinechilling

Originally posted by cj6
Satan is the way to true FREEDOM.

How can Satan be the way to true freedom when it is God who gives us freewill?

Yeah, see...? Exactly what they want you to think!

What happens when the 'smart monkeys' eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

They start to learn by trial and error, they no longer are governed solely by what thier instincts tell them - thier minds are telling them 'what if I did this or did that' - thier instinctive mind is saying no nooo thats wrong! - thier emergent rational mind is saying yeah but I could do that - I could pick up that burning stick, or i could pick up that big club like stick and beat the alpha male to death.


They have become the deciders of what is good and evil!

(there is a whole movement with this philosophy around somewhere - forget thier name though)

Satan is an Angel and his job is to tempt. God is all around us and what not. I know you're coming from a Christian POV on this thread. Just really read the so called OT then ask questions from a person who doesn't know God and Angels.

I always thought if satan was the great deceiver wouldn't the best deception of all be the bible?? People who tell me that the people who wrote it were inspired by god, but what if it was satan who was telling them?? Not to say it's true but it's not impossible, if there will ever be a end time and that kind of truth revealed could you image what kind of face palm moment that would be?

reply to post by jheated5


Finally someone who has caught on! The only the thing that is consider pure is the Eternal Torah. The Bible and Quran to me are lies.

(there is a whole movement with this philosophy around somewhere - forget thier name though)

www.worldtransformation.com...

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Well I don't want to make it sound like one religion is better than another, because I don't practice any... Being from a christian family that's the only religion I had to tolerate.... On a side note Rebel I've seen in a lot of posts you talk about the Torah and how it's the only truth, my question is if it seems so absolute to you why aren't you practicing it?

Why does one adore and worship something one cannot even comprehend? Since childhood I've never understood it, and came to conclusion that religion is a tool for mind-conditioning, to make one feel like there is no need for learning and understanding, but to instead enjoy it as it comes and goes.

After reading the OP, I realized that I also share this understanding. Good post.

reply to post by jheated5


Because I'm just not practicing it. I shouldn't have to do in order to follow God. G-d gave only seven basic commandments to gentiles. Which I follow in my life. I have Jewish blood from both sides. Though it is very faint. I still have my Atheist and skeptic views where I don't believe anything in religious text. I just believe in God.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


I understand where you're coming from, the rules are the basic foundation of what you should do or not do in life... It's just crazy religion just isn't that simple eh? Who knows though maybe it is.....

Originally posted by VinciVirus
Why does one adore and worship something one cannot even comprehend? Since childhood I've never understood it, and came to conclusion that religion is a tool for mind-conditioning, to make one feel like there is no need for learning and understanding, but to instead enjoy it as it comes and goes.

After reading the OP, I realized that I also share this understanding. Good post.

It goes something like this:

'I cannot comprehend it so I must adore and worship it because I am obviously too limited to understand it so I must worship it... and around and around she goes. This is called circular logic true, but this just tends to dull the intellect, but it also appeals to a deep psychological need to not have to be responsible for our own actions. Present some miracles, or simply fob off some coincidences as miracles and it's nearly fool proof. Mutter some dark stick and carrot quasi-threats and there you have it. This strategy nearly never fails. Especially when presented with a costume and a creed. Armed such, you can change the hearts and minds of nearly everyone. (I would avoid yellow spandex though. It seems to have lost it's cultural gravitas.)