FBI engineers terror plot, creates terrorist

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by oozyism

 

Well.. now you are letting your stubbornness and ignorance show.
You know damn well it's the same. It says so. The gangsters were planning to blow up this police station
but undercover agents intervened posing as weapons dealers, it's exactly the same. In the Muslim bomber case they were posing as bomb maker radicals. In this case as arms dealers, in other cases hit men. It is all case sensitive. Come on.. you have to realize now. They do this to whomever. It is how they work. It is effective and it stops crime it stops innocent deaths. This is the exact same. Anyone here can see that this proves my case. If you can't you are hopeless and are letting your dedication to a criminal show.

It is not the same.

1. The FBI didn't approach the gangsters.
2. The FBI didn't give them money.
3. The FBI didn't encourage them to blow up the police station.
4. The FBI didn't plan for them the attack, nor plotted anything.

The only similarity is, that FBI was involved.

Your turn to put some substance to your posts

The FBI were aware of the kids leanings.
They have the ability to monitor every aspect of his activities.
They have the wherewithal to intercede at any time if any of his freely self-determined plans or actions posed a real and live threat.
That they used entrapment, and no amount of legalese will alter the fact that it was entrapment, to ensure his fantasies became reality is immoral and such behaviour and action has no place in the just and fair society we stride and allege to be.
If the FBI had not fed his fantasy then there is more than a possibility it would have remained just that, a fantasy.
And the day we persecute for fantasy or thoughts is the day we become the very thing we purport to oppose.

Cases like this feed the flames for the apologists who endlessly seek to justify and excuse the actions of the very real terrorists that are out there.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by oozyism

 

Wrong-o read up on what you post. That was this attack, and he was planning it. Not the FBI. Just like your gangster case, if they hadn't posed as the weapon dealers they may have gone to someone with the real deal. Just like the kid could have gone to a real deal bomb maker had they not gotten involved. The kid had been considering stuff like this since he was 15, that's four years. The FBI only got involved around june or july when he actually became a threat. He had years to turn his way of life around.

edit on 30-11-2010 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

He wasn't planning it, FBI already approached him and gave him the plan, and pretended the build the bomb for him while he thinks through the plan.

He was also given money and he was also encouraged to implement the attack, that is why FBI is accused of manipulating this kid.

reply to post by oozyism


You have no evidence. It is exactly the same. It doesn't even really matter who approached who because the kid was approaching people about committing a terrorist act. The gangsters could have very well approached the FBI, the FBI just set themselves in the right place to be approached. It is the same. Of course things vary from case to case, but both the gangsters and the kid were intent on committing a crime.

Now for my thread outro (at least for the night)
Ooz, I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just trying to show you the light. The agents do this to people from every background. You are Muslim right? Someone in this thread hinted at that at least? I am trying to make you see that this isn't about one race, sure they make a big deal out of it in the news, but it is about protecting the people. I have a good friend that is Muslim and although when we are hanging out with our good Jewish friends I make some killer tasteless jokes because I'm an asshole, I have nothing but love for them both. We are all equal and we are all in this together. I don't want you, being a Muslim (if you are) to think that you have this great problem to deal with and you should be angry or anyone is out to get you. You aren't in forums doing what this kid did so don't defend him. He would have killed people from every race and religion without discrimination.

The government will perform this kind of operation on anyone who poses a threat.

When this kid decided to make the phone call to detonate what he though was a bomb and what he thought would kill lots of innocent people that were doing nothing but enjoying a holiday and enjoying their lives he became an enemy to you and me. He was bad. It doesn't matter what led him to that place, he had the choice right up until he made the call. Yeah I am patriotic, I rarely agree with my country, but it was founded on good principle and everyone I know and love lives here. So yeah eff this guy, he would have killed my family and your family.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


So you agree it is not the same.

Case closed.

reply to oozyism

...hey, oozy - has this young man's family made a statement?... i'd be interested in hearing their side... if you've got a link - hook me up, please...

reply to post by oozyism


Um.. no. Don't put words in my mouth. That is a lame tactic. I stated clearly in every post it is the same.
If you are going to be like that you aren't worth my time.

It is the same.
Anyone that wants to see that has all the evidence they need in this thread.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
reply to oozyism

...hey, oozy - has this young man's family made a statement?... i'd be interested in hearing their side... if you've got a link - hook me up, please...

So far, Mohamud's family has not spoken publicly about the arrest, but some in the close-knit Somali community in Portland have come forward. The suspect's father is described as an active member of the community and his mother as someone who does not wear a hijab, signifying a family life that was tolerant and progressive. "This is a family everyone looks up to," a 24-year-old immigrant identified only as "Ali" told the Oregonian. "They are the most educated modern Somalis. I'll bet this is their worst nightmare, too."

www.politicsdaily.com...

reply to post by oozyism


...yeah, thx, i read that article... still wondering which family member ratted him out 4yrs ago...

What's missing from all of these celebrations is an iota of questioning or skepticism. All of the information about this episode -- all of it -- comes exclusively from an FBI affidavit filed in connection with a Criminal Complaint against Mohamud. As shocking and upsetting as this may be to some, FBI claims are sometimes one-sided, unreliable and even untrue, especially when such claims -- as here -- are uncorroborated and unexamined. That's why we have what we call "trials" before assuming guilt or even before believing that we know what happened: because the government doesn't always tell the complete truth, because they often skew reality, because things often look much different once the accused is permitted to present his own facts and subject the government's claims to scrutiny. The FBI affidavit -- as well as whatever its agents are whispering into the ears of reporters -- contains only those facts the FBI chose to include, but omits the ones it chose to exclude. And even the "facts" that are included are merely assertions at this point and thus may not be facts at all.

We hear the same exact thing over and over and over from accused Terrorists -- that they are attempting to carry out plots in retaliation for past and ongoing American violence against Muslim civilians and to deter such future acts. Here we find one of the great mysteries in American political culture: that the U.S. Government dispatches its military all over the world -- invading, occupying, and bombing multiple Muslim countries -- torturing them, imprisoning them without charges, shooting them up at checkpoints, sending remote-controlled drones to explode their homes, imposing sanctions that starve hundreds of thousands of children to death -- and Americans are then baffled when some Muslims -- an amazingly small percentage -- harbor anger and vengeance toward them and want to return the violence. And here we also find the greatest myth in American political discourse: that engaging in all of that military aggression somehow constitutes Staying Safe and combating Terrorism -- rather than doing more than any single other cause to provoke, sustain and fuel Terrorism.

Too bad I can't just quote the entire article, as it's really good, but I think you all get the point. There's quite a bit more to the article that is relevant to the discussion. I'll leave it to you guys to argue over it, if you choose to read it.Here's the link to the article by Glenn Greenwald

the entire story seems fishy to me

reply to post by oozyism


For the record I think it's really annoying that you flat out lied in saying I agreed with you (which I didn't) and put words in my mouth when you thought I was leaving the thread. This kind of behavior leaves me and should leave others regretting posting in your threads and not wanting to post in future ones. The case was closed when you proved me right. Which you in fact did.

This is not surprising at all.

the US gov will always take the easist route from A to B.

Teh little peasant boy was a terrorist in the making. the US just helped him achieve his goal.

this thread brings up another interesting
story I read recently.

Would Adam and Eve eaten the
apple in the garden had it not been
for the serpent?

Blame Adam & Eve??
or the serpent??

FBI is representing the serpent here
a very intended pun

reply to post by boondock-saint



Yes, but were Adam and Eve actively trying to leave the garden (the USA) to head to the Middle East to find an apple tree to eat from before the serpent finally stepped up and said hey there is an apple tree right here? So the serpent could keep an eye on them.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
Ye,s but were Adam and Eve actively trying to leave the garden (the USA) to head to the Middle East to find an apple tree to eat from?

who do you think put that idea of traveling
to a training camp in his mind??

The FBI did !!!

Notice that he wasn't allowed to fly from being on
the no-fly list. Therefore, he attempted to fly AFTER
already being contacted by the FBI.

So your above post is irrelevant

this whole scenario is nothing but pure entrapment.

The last I heard ANYBODY conspiring and/or funding
and/or supplying a terrorist is indeed guilty of terrorism
themselves. So therefore, the FBI committed terrorist acts
themselves, no matter if the bomb was fake or not.

Last time I checked, our laws do NOT allow our law
enforcement to break laws themselves to catch
terrorists or criminals. The FBI are just as guilty
as this kid is IMO cuz they conspired with the
subject.

reply to post by boondock-saint


Actually I disagree. Read more articles on it. He had been interested in Jihad since he was fifteen. The FBI only got involved this summer. So my post wasn't irrelevant. I don't know why so many people are clamoring to support a guy that tried to kill innocent civilians. He made the call to detonate what he thought was a bomb. The FBI didn't make him do that. He wanted to kill people. The FBI couldn't talk me into that. He wanted to do this.

I think it's outrageous that so many people are supporting this attempted murderer.
If your families were killed by a terrorist plot you would be screaming bloody murder that the FBI should have caught them and done this. Actually you would probably be saying the FBI did it instead of doing everything they could to arrest the killer instead as they did in this case. He was 19 a man he chose to kill those people when he dialed that phone.

Originally posted by oozyism
What if you give a while skin head a C4 and planning to bomb a black gathering?

Why doesn't the FBI do that>?

Here is a prime example of how you don't know what you're talking about. The FBI are constantly monitoring white supremacist groups and doing sting operations on them. The penal system here in the US is full of non-Muslims that have sought to bring death and mayhem to minority groups.

Why are they focusing only on Muslims?

Well, if Islam was a peaceful religion as the Muslims claim it to be, then there wouldn't be any focus now would there?

Isn't that prejudice?

Focusing their attention on people who have murderous intents? Yes. I'd say that's prejudiced.

Isn't that bigotry?

Refer to the above.

Isn't that intentionally spread hate towards Muslims?

If you'll really pay attention to what's going on in your religion and stop being so one-sided in your arguments, you'll find that it's the Muslim who is spreading hatred towards themselves.

Hey, why not give a gangster a C4, and give him a plan to blow up the police station?

Believe me when I tell you this. We do that already so don't feel like you're a genius for thinking of something that's already been thought of before.

Yea, this seemed very fishy. It sounded like the same story that the wtc 93 bomber gave.

shady.. stuff like this is bad for democracy