This is why Julian Assange needs to be silenced...the moron

I wish people would stop critisizing "The U.S." and start critisizing "The U.S.Government" as the secular and elitist unit that it is, otherwise it just shows ignorance and breeds collective contempt. It is the government who are spoiling things for the rest of us, not the American citizens ...and they have it on their doorstep day in, day out.

The same view should also be applied to ALL countries and ALL leaders. We DEMAND transparency and if they refuse to give it then we should embrace it when it is offered by someone who stands up for freedom and risks their butt to give it to us.

I am a supporter of what Wikileaks are doing and hope they continue to release the information which sheds light on the truth of what's really going on in this world and the secret affairs of those in charge of it.

This is a wake up call and a reminder that holding one of those privalidged positions of power doesn't and shouldn't come with unbridled immunity from accountability. Sure, there could be problems from these releases, but the pros must surely outweigh the cons.

We must keep digging and keep supporting these releases, even moreso now because TPTB will be going further underground and with more security than ever before.

Good luck Wikileaks, good luck Mr Assange.

reply to post by TheRemedial


lol..your reply makes as much sense as a poopy flavored lollipop..honestly..i think you're an idiot.

this will not effect our relaationship with china, korea will be pissed (north more then south) however North korea doesnt have the power to take on the world or even china in that manner. They will more/less see thier allies turning and korea will have to make a change all on its own.

Julian Assange is working for switzerland goverment, and as you all know switzerland is neutral, they have very postive goals, and the fact they have gotten this far as alot about the support they are getting.
You who started this thread are merely trying to gain the opinions of conspiracy theorists, weather you are working for a goverment group or not (some start thread to win the opinions of many ATSers) A paid opinion.

To me a paid opinion is the opinion of a jack@$$, by the name of the title, it sounds like you think he should be assassinated, how primtive of you. Do you not realize the good that comes out of this? Or are you blind to good and see only the flaws, if these secrets were kept war was inevitable, but perhaps that every country sees a dirty side to those they thought were supriour, then things might level out.

Example, lets say france just issued a law that inhibites the rights of his people, only to find out its leaders can do whatever they please, now lets say britian sees that the rights of the fench people have been taken away, but do not see that the leaders can do whatever they please, this creates a biaist opinion, merely because they had no knowledge of the corruption in the countries leaders, however if they did know then the probelm could be adressed.

It is a made up example, but if gives you an idea of how this could work for the better, long term.

Originally posted by Backbiter2000
Look, I love my country (USA) but I hate what my government has become. These leaks show how my government is screwing around with the global community. About time we are made to look bad when we try to show how good we are. Don't blame Assange for the # that the US government has caused. I credit him with having the balls to stand up to the US. Nobody else has....

Good that you bring this point. I, like many in the world, am not against American people. American culture has a lot to contribute to this planet, especially its creativity, work ethics and can-do spirit. However, there are many pitfalls in US culture that are superbly taken advantage of by TPTB. The most obvious of these pitfalls in are: 1) Winner takes all, 2) An extreme form of individualism (read selfishness), 3) Overdoing in self-preservation and self-promotion. The major strategy of TPTB to take advantage of the American people to achieve their agenda is very simple: to agnize American people and encourage them to overreact and overdo things, which is very easy to accomplish, given the American spirit. The key for Americans to counter this is to do everything in moderation. This is my view only.

In terms of US foreign policy, US has been bullying many other nations diplomatically, covertly and militarily for decades.

No nation is perfect. Many are bad. But US government is the real hooligan in this world. It embraces a thug's philosophy in its foreign policy. Just like a common criminal, US government considers your home his home. He thinks it completely "natural" to threaten you and terrorize your neighbors. If you dare to say no to him, he will call up his gang and "exercise" on your land with his big guns and big bombs. While terrorizing you, he paints "Terrorism" on your doors and windows, and presses the whole neighborhood to call you a terrorist.

When you still say no to him, he deems it his "right" to enter your house. He can take or damage whatever in your house, and molest whoever he feels attractive. Though you and your family are bleeding, he tells you shamelessly that he is "defending" his "freedom" and your "freedom". After conducting such deeds day in and day out, he coerces everyone to agree that he is a gentleman, a fair-playing athlete, a caring uncle, a role-model and a hero who brings peace to the street.

Now with this latest CableGate leak, US government's image is blemished. But just as a thug, he does not care if the leak reveals truth about himself. Rather, he announces his displeasure to the world and complains loudly about the (potential) damage to his "assets".

Think the above account purports too harsh a view? Watch this:
The War on Democracy

Don't tell me how much US has donated to UN. Don't tell me how much US has given (mostly loaned) to the Third World. But tell me how much US has gained from this world and how many lives and how much resources US has costed the World for its "way of life".

If you want to bury our heads in the sand, How are we to make informed apinions?

reply to post by mobiusmale


I disagree. These leaks make the usual pre-war information campaigns even more difficult for the hawks because their methods and track records have been exposed. The idea is to bring the people into the debate in an active sense rather than into one where they are simply exposed to one side of an argument only.

If everyone knew the true reasons for war they would begin to define patriotism differently. Less blind obedience and more thinking by the ordinary folk without whom the government would be hard pressed for approval.

I wonder if the OP is familiar with the concept of divide and conquer...

reply to post by nerbot


The way I see it a country gets criticized as a whole rather than individual basis. You could say but the government is in power. Yeah but you have the ability to get off your arse and convince people to go a new direction. There is no main action hero, the only action hero is you.

You DEMAND transparency, it hasn't happened so therefore you failed as a citizen. I DEMAND my bills be lowered, it doesn't mean they will be lowered. It means I have to get off my but and go find another person with cheaper services.

The rise of Nazi's got all of Germany labeled as lunatics, why should anyone else be any different? Germany could have prevented such radicalism when the signs were there, but they didn't. It got out of hand and the Reich was born. US is headed in the same direction.

You can stand up now and go fight or you can DEMAND and nothing happens. It is up to you.

4 min!?! Thats how long it took for someone to start bashing america in this thread. Pretty much the first reply was some anti american hater. He talks big that he will take his hard earned money elsewere. Thats fine he probably wasn't welcome here anyway with that attatude. I dare him or her to spill there anti american hate speech on any street corner here and see how long they can preform the basic human functions like walking, swallowing, or breathing unassisted.

I feel bad meeting this person on there own playing field going on this rant. I know im better than that... and these anti american loosers. Im just so sick of hearing it. This was and still is the greatest country on the planet period. We still have more freedoms than the majority of the world, and when I hear someone bash this country my first instinct is they are just jelious.

All I ask is when you talk crap about the country I love so much please be clear. Are you talking about my government? Because I would be the first to agree with you that it's been hijacked we are trying to get control back to the people. Are you talking about the people? Because i'll agree with you there too. The majority of my brothers and sisters over here in the states are, for the lack of a better word morons. But if your attacking my country just because you feel you can then you good sir or madam are just jelious, and if was up to me we would just let these countrys with no back bone twist in the wind when shtf.

I bet the majority of you America haters don't know that our primary export now is food stuffs. We feed more people over the world than any other nation. Estimates put the death toll at over 2 billion if we stopped supporting these countrys. Can you say the same for your nation?

Originally posted by allthegoodusernamestaken
reply to post by adifferentbreed

 

The difference being, no other nation on earth has ever toppled as many legitimate and democratically elected foreign governments (over 100), or used nuclear weapons, or demands the extradition of people with serious learning difficulties. Get over the American Arrogance and you'll see that the US is nothing but a laughing stock to the rest of the world.

Thank you for sharing your emotionally fueled, biased, arrogant stance towards an entire nation of people.

You claim we as Americans are arrogant? Funny, the tone that comes across in your "rants" is as condescending and arrogant as they come.

So, although clearly you are not alone in your childish ignorance, you have contributed nothing to the general debate aside from your blatant hypocrisy and general buffoonery which sadly enough, has become near common place in ATS political discussions.

Thank you, now please either contribute in a constructive manner, or be on your merry way

The government should not do anything that the public shouldn't know about.
That's the bottom line.

We don't vote people into our governments to hide stuff from us....
We've just gotten so used to every politician beeing either a criminal or a borderline criminal that we don't see the problem in them behaving like criminals.

Is it so hard to see that behaving like the regimes we're supposedly fighting is the wrong way to go?

This is not just the US government, but beeing in the position it is the US have to step up to the plate as a positive world leader, not another Roman empire bound to fall from its own greed.

This is not about bashing the US people, I love US popular culture and most americans I've met or talked to are just average people. Some are great, some are complete morons, just like the people in my country or any other country I've visited (19 so far).

I kind of understand that Americans find it seems like there is alot of bias against them, but as the self-proclaimed democratic frontier it is, the US has alot to live up to imo.

Why do people think that the general public should be privy to all state secrets?

The whole point of having elected leaders is to put someone in charge of the tough decisions, the weight of knowing the world secrets, knowing how close we come to nuclear war, while the public sleeps soundly at night.

Trust is something that is earned, not some god given right. People who are put in positions of leadership have proven they can be trusted to make the right decision. Of course this does not always work out for the best.

Personally, I think this whole wikileaks is nothing but a chess move by intelligence groups within and outside the U.S. A good chess player is always at least several moves ahead.

If Julian Assange was a REAL national security risk, he would be "eliminated" with surgical precision.

Im sure there are many people who work for private defense contractors who would have no problem accomplishing this feat.

reply to post by mobiusmale


If people want to go to war, it's because they have a desire to go to war. Seriously, if a few strings of text which amount to little more than childish name calling is the catalyst that starts World War 3, then clearly the world isn't mature enough to play nicely together and war was inevitable.

Julian Assange is nothing. Wikileaks is nothing. Those who want to keep secrets, and those who are not mature enough to handle the truth, are everything, and are the problem.

reply to post by squirelnutz


Well.. the problem with this leak is that if NK believes it, then Wikileaks is to blame for endangering the chinese people. North Korea is unstable enough to strike out at China for betrayal if they think there is no chance for them to win and they go on self destruct.

Honestly this is a bit of information that should have remained classified. It was disappointing to me some. We all know that some things have to be kept secret, not necessarily from us, but because information spreads so easily it would get to NK. It shows something very promising for the progression of the world and being out in the open it puts China in trouble when they were on board with us for the good of the world.

Edit: BTW I would have no problem throwing support for the Chinese. I took Mandarin for two years in college and my teachers were just really good people. I will always remember on election day in class trying to spark a discussion on politics and my teachers gloomy demeanor when she told me that they just tried not to think about it because they could do nothing. She also told me Beijing girls were the most beautiful maidens in yonder orient.

reply to post by killallbullies


reply to post by killallbullies

Originally posted by nerbot
I wish people would stop critisizing "The U.S." and start critisizing "The U.S.Government" as the secular and elitist unit that it is, otherwise it just shows ignorance and breeds collective contempt. It is the government who are spoiling things for the rest of us, not the American citizens ...and they have it on their doorstep day in, day out.

The same view should also be applied to ALL countries and ALL leaders. We DEMAND transparency and if they refuse to give it then we should embrace it when it is offered by someone who stands up for freedom and risks their butt to give it to us.

I am a supporter of what Wikileaks are doing and hope they continue to release the information which sheds light on the truth of what's really going on in this world and the secret affairs of those in charge of it.

This is a wake up call and a reminder that holding one of those privalidged positions of power doesn't and shouldn't come with unbridled immunity from accountability. Sure, there could be problems from these releases, but the pros must surely outweigh the cons.

We must keep digging and keep supporting these releases, even moreso now because TPTB will be going further underground and with more security than ever before.

Good luck Wikileaks, good luck Mr Assange.

I agree to an extent. I do not enjoy US bashing, not at all, at some point that is basically saying to me FU because you're an American. People universally should realize that Government officials come and go in every country, every country folks. The people are still there and we have to deal with the decisions they (Governments) make. (Now watch some goofball say you elected them!) Pre-emptive - Don't even try it, you do not know who I vote for thank you very much.

Now look, as someone who wants the truth on many topics and issues like everyone else here, I totally understand wanting information, factual information. I support when writers here and in other websites and newspapers express their views on things but most importantly present fact in order to try to inform even those with the smallest of minds that remain closed, However, that by no means, states nor implies that I have to sit back and take the crap of arrogant posters with some sort imagined higher moral fabric that apparently (according to them) missed me on the day we all evolved and walked on two legs or were created by some superior power as some put it.

Now you say information should be given to the public, I agree, whole heartedly, but I do not condone someone stealing, hacking or extorting that information from my country in order to do it. (Now watch someone think of global truth and the importance of global citizenship here in order to rebut) No one gathered by mass and asked that guy to publish these cables and even then, they aren't condemning of the US Government, and for those of you who think this information is damaging, the leaders of the world could care less what US diplomats say in our embassies. Just look around. The diplomats from all walks called spades, spades and I do not see world war 3 resulting in this leak as a matter of fact, it seems that rest of the world agreed.

What I do see, is a bunch of US haters posting on a website, pissed because they got no ammo from it and what little is there to begin with, is all they can cling to when they criticise "the Americans."

Let us look at what Mrs Clinton says about this all herself.

In the Internet age, Mrs. Clinton said, it was difficult to balance freedom and responsibility. Some governments, she said, were overreacting by throwing bloggers in jail. At the same time, spreading information online can be harmful, she said, citing the recent case of a young man in New Jersey who committed suicide after a fellow student posted video of him in a gay sexual encounter. “We’ve got to support and protect freedom of expression, whether it’s from an individual or from a journalist,” she said. “But there also have to be some rules or some sense of responsibility that has to be inculcated.”

And when people asked Assange what his intent was when releasing much of the information that is on Wikileaks, his reply was "I don't know". How is that responsible journalism? Isn't that what he preached? Isn't that what he was doing when he helped Iceland put together that news protective blanket out there? Preaching responsibility to the "the people"? Am I right? Then he should know when people ask what his intent is with information. When a Government says hey look, you may endanger folks with this info and you publish it anyway. How is that responsible? Would anyone of you here justify a 3rd world war so that you can sit there and say I told you so? I hope not. There was no forethought in the release of much of this information and if there was, he took the stance of I don't really care, people should know. I just don't agree with that stance, sorry. I thank the guy for trying to inform, but not when it endangers my countrymen or anyone else's countrymen over stupid comments by desk jockies in million dollar embassies.

And to you dear sir.

No nation is perfect. Many are bad. But US government is the real hooligan in this world. It embraces a thug's philosophy in its foreign policy. Just like a common criminal, US government considers your home his home. He thinks it completely "natural" to threaten you and terrorize your neighbors. If you dare to say no to him, he will call up his gang and "exercise" on your land with his big guns and big bombs. While terrorizing you, he paints "Terrorism" on your doors and windows, and presses the whole neighborhood to call you a terrorist.


When you still say no to him, he deems it his "right" to enter your house. He can take or damage whatever in your house, and molest whoever he feels attractive. Though you and your family are bleeding, he tells you shamelessly that he is "defending" his "freedom" and your "freedom". After conducting such deeds day in and day out, he coerces everyone to agree that he is a gentleman, a fair-playing athlete, a caring uncle, a role-model and a hero who brings peace to the street.

This cannot be further from the truth. Let me help you out there my friend. In world war 1, we opted to stay out in order to remain neutral and isolated, and we were dragged in when some lunatic killed Americans. That war was a European issue, we didn’t start it, we didn’t even want it. In world war 2, again we didn’t want any part of it, we were hesitant due to the loses we took in ww1 and we opted instead to sell weapons to our allies. Japan assumed us as their largest threat while invading British and European colonies. Enter Pearl Harbor, and we nuked the living crap out of them for it. God rest their souls.

Vietnam, this was us? Oh that’s right, it wasn’t, we are on the other side of the world but guess who was psycho in the eastern hemisphere.. you guessed it, China and the Korean peninsula. Sound familiar? We cannot discount the communist demanding control there can we? Who was bullying there? Who is bullying now? Same story, they picked on South Korea, we helped, they got war. We didn’t start it, we didn’t want it but we got it.

Gulf war- self explanatory Iraq lost to Iran, not one American troop fought there that was all them, their own psycho issues got worked out or did they? They (economically unstable and torn Iraq) decided to invade Kuwait for oil. 57 hours later, the quickest war in history was over when we had to go liberate Kuwait. We didn’t start that either, we didn’t bully anyone, we bullied back when the rest of the world sat on their asses like good nwo zombies.

2nd gulf war and 9/11 I’ll just leave the rest of this to the conspiracy theorists who are going to come and shred my point apart, call me arrogant, ignorant, stupid American and we the sheeple. They might also start breaking out links and pointing me to NWO articles, an iraq mass murder and documents of Operation Northwood and psyops. Accept when they realize that the point is this, if you look at history, not conspiracy it is indeed by historical fact and not theory that the other hemisphere in this world has been kicking the crap out of each other all this time and has always, even now by the release of the diplomatic cables (more fact) demanding that the US deal with the worlds issues because no one else will do it themselves. The American people want the world to stop, let us frikkin live in peace, we do not want to bully anyone sir, we dont care whether you agree with our lifestyles let alone adopt them and we sure as heck aren’t hooligans, I assure you.

Now if you had some sort issue with one of our soldiers that prompted you to make that example above, then you and your family should go to your embassy and file charges, that is unless you are using this as a point? Either way, no one would be called terrorist if people from all walks (just like on this board) weren't trying to kill, degrade, threaten, demoralize, hack and discredit the American government and people at every turn (that includes you domestic nutjobs out there). I like many millions of other American people would enjoy keeping our own troops (sons and daughters) around our own country like they should be for a damn change instead of in others backyards because the rest of the world cant seem to get along.

The WH media campaign is doing an excellent job....

Yes, everyone, focus on Assange and Wikileaks, and completely ignore the crimes the government is committing.

I mean, God forbid that the US should actually have to take any responsibility for the mess it has created....

No, just keep reviling Wikileaks for exposing them. Kill the messenger and carry on with the crimes.

There seems to be an overwhelming assumption that no-one else was aware of the information contained in these documents until Wikileaks exposed them. But that is totally irrational.

Every country has its own intel and spies - and there are very few real secrets. Do you honestly think N. Korea doesn't know what China's views are? NK spies are everywhere too.

Add to that the fact that the US security was incredibly lax, thousands of low level personnel had access to this information - so all the spies in the world probably already had all of this.

The point is the people didn't have this info - and IMO that's the main purpose of the disclosure.

Get it all out in the open, we dont pay our taxes so the Governments can keep secrets from us.
Just remember our Taxes our Government.

example:America 911, the best thier Government could come up with is to kill more people!!! Please, wake the hell up...

Well...that will teach me not to post a thread right before I go to bed. It looks like i missed a lot of fun.

I have quickly scanned through the replies, and am not shocked to learn that my sanity, my maturity, my morality, my intelligence, my loyalties, my honesty, etc., etc. have all been called into question. ATS is, after all, such a loving and supportive environment in which to air thoughts and opinions.

Over the next few hours, as I have time...it seems that some here have full-time hours to throw at their ATS writing careers...I will respond to a few folks directly.

Overall though, I will point out the following:

1) My "rant" with respect to the dangers of letting North Korea's dictator know that China (his supposed stalwart ally) is already plotting - with his greatest enemies - to allow his little empire, his monarchy, to crumble soon after his death...might trigger even more irrational behaviour from the little mass murderer. Kim is unbalanced, and if pushed too far might even consider going through with the equivalent of a murder-suicide, if he comes to believe his world is crumbling around him. Assange, and his crew, obviously do not take into consideration that dictators like Kim are (sort of) human beings who can be emotionally impacted by the revelation of these kinds of betrayals.
2) A certain amount of secrecy and confidentiality, as one of the other posters has pointed out, is absolutely necessary for the running of, and security of, any country, military, company, community or family. If this attitude...that all things are to be disseminated, completely, publicly, immediately...there would be absolute and utter chaos. This, I understand is the end fervent desire of the anarchists (among us) who call ATS home. But, as the old saying goes...be careful what you wish for.

More later, as time permits. Not that I think I am going to change the minds of those who support Wikileaks...they are the information junkie voyeurs' wet dream come true. Just would like to clarify/correct a few things.

Your viewpoint is irrelevant. Why? Because We are America - not the fictitious, fraudulent, flatulent bloated beast that sits in D.C. - but Liberty minded folks who despise the despots that have hijacked this nation, and the pitiable, sheepish cowards that defend them.
People with your mindset have been wrong about everything; the good thing is that you won't lift more than your keyboard fingers to do anything, nor will you do anything other than mouth off as the Patriots in this country restore it to a proper Republic.