North Korea’s Military Strength. No Pushovers!

reply to post by Subjective Truth

The point is the North is not a military powerhouse. Canada could take out Detroit if the wanted to but in the end they have a weak military.

The problem with this scenario is that, what with the line-ups on the Ambassador Bridge (bridge to the USA) and all, and the amount of time it would take for our APC's and our tank (singular) to clear U.S. Customs on the other side...U.S. forces would likely get wise to the fact that something was up.

U.S. Customs Agent, "Do you have anything to declare?"

Canadian Soldier, "Just that we are going to kick your butts today."

U.S. Customs Agent, "Ok, please pull up to the inspection building over there, and an officer will come out to meet you."

Canadian Soldier, "Aaaaw, geeze! I am supposed to be at Checkpoint Alpha in about five minutes...and the Leafs game starts at 7:00. We don't have time for this #$@%"

....end of invasion.

I won't pretend to know much about military power or stretegy, but something in particular does stand out to me.

It has been said "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog".

Whilst the US and South Korea could dominate the skies and seas with much more advanced weaponry, going to war with a country like North Korea, whose army is perpetually prepared and fully motivated for war to the death, is not something to be taken lightly.

In the end, they could probably be defeated, but they won't go easily, and that is the problem.

Originally posted by Bagel
It has been said "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog".
In the end, they could probably be defeated, but they won't go easily, and that is the problem.

Spot on! It's the man behind the machine that counts. Not that I'm saying the US/SK Forces are zilch, but remember the NKs are rabidly indoctrinated and will fight to the last man last round. Are American soldiers game for that? Simple answer - NO! Three months on in Afghanistan and they want to get back to the U.S. The stress is pretty hard to handle.

But not so the NKs. They're used to the hard life, without those creature comforts that we all are used to. Macs, Dominoes, Burger kings, 3-D movies, Plasma TVs, binges on the sea front, a five day week and so on!

reply to post by OrionHunterX


"Spot on! It's the man behind the machine that counts. Not that I'm saying the US/SK Forces are zilch, but remember the NKs are rabidly indoctrinated and will fight to the last man last round. Are American soldiers game for that? Simple answer - NO! Three months on in Afghanistan and they want to get back to the U.S. The stress is pretty hard to handle."

I will take our army/navy/air force that CHOSE to be in the military over any indoctrinated army. It is why we had problems with draftings in vietnam. Those that make the decision always make better fighters. The NK may very well start off feeling motivated, but just like the iraqies it becomes very evident you are fighting against impossibility and they will quit.

reply to post by beholdblight

And when Russia comes to back both its allies....

Russia is not an ally to China or North Korea. They are jointly developing the T-50 or PAK-FA, or whatever it is being called with India. India and China have been in a cold war arms race these past 10 years, but the rest of the world is pretty much oblivious to it.

Russia is the higher-tech version of China; contracting work that requires infrastructure that Chinese fabrication facilities just don't have, and experience China is devoid of. In a sense - they have stepped into the place the U.S. was in during the 50s. The only difference between the U.S. and Russia is that Russia is far more willing to contract weapons than the U.S.

Russia has more in common with the U.S. these days than it does with China, and certainly the DPRK.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
The point is the North is not a military powerhouse. Canada could take out Detroit if the wanted to but in the end they have a weak military.

Canada can have Detriot for all I care. I doubt they do, tho.

Originally posted by OrionHunterX
Right! Remember, these guys are physically tough. They can survive with emergency rations consisting of dried nuts for days. They don't require a/c dining halls and a menu fit for kings like Americans do. They don't need to take bath in a/c toilets with 24x7 running water! They don't need a good WC for a crap. And they use leaves as toilet paper during training when they are required to live off the land for days on end!

Can Americans do all this? And if they can't their morale will sure take a beating! I mean if you can't have a comfortable crap in a WC after a packed meal of the finest sausages with mayonnaise sauce and buttered flakes with Swiss cheese then you can't expect them to fight with a bad mood!!

Sorry, Gus. Time to stop drinking the bong water. Do US troops have good rations, chow halls, etc. Yep, we do.

Do we need them? Nope. We don't need showers, can survive off emergency rations, etc. And we'll take out our bad morale on the NK troops.

reply to post by NeverApologize


don't forget that if we just held the line, and cut off supplies of food, they'd probably all starve to death on the battle field nk would be so stupid to try anything.

reply to post by Aim64C

Russia has more in common with the U.S. these days than it does with China,

american elites have escalated situation as proxy war to stop China & Russia off trading w/o mighty buckie, big war will force Russia to shot-head every of mad dogs in defiance of own, grave losses. however, quite likeliest probability is silent shot-heads of dollar clans: big war with nukes has been Nothing, but pure suicide

reply to post by SarK0Y

american elites have escalated situation as proxy war to stop China & Russia off trading w/o mighty buckie, big war will force Russia to shot-head every of mad dogs in defiance of own, grave losses. however, quite likeliest probability is silent shot-heads of dollar clans: big war with nukes has been Nothing, but pure suicide

.... What?

Not to be a dick, but - are you using a translator or something? That whole paragraph looks like it went through a word-processor made by Hobart. I'm not able to make a whole lot of sense out of it. Though you're using buzzwords like "elites" - so it's safe to say I'm going to disagree with whatever it was you were trying to say.

reply to post by Aim64C

Not to be a dick, but - are you using a translator or something?

do you wanna get what i'm talking about? i think your brain will help you. Just ask him sorry, but i'll not rewrite that post something has to've only original form.

What seems to be the common theme of this thread is the misunderstanding of how conventional and guerrilla warfare differ.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are guerrilla wars. That means a conventional army , the US, is combating a non-conventional (guerrilla) force. The reason these types of conflicts are so difficult is because it is hard to recognize who the enemy is.

A hypothetical example would be sending a group of soldiers into the US to wipe out hostile and destructive members of the Libertarian party (nothing against Libertarians, just an example). How can you recognize a member of the Libertarian party? They usually don't wear buttons around town that say "I'm a Libertarian". Same thing in Afghanistan. How can you tell who the enemy is? First you're speaking with a shop owner, trying to obtain information, and the next thing you know, he and 15 of his buddies are shooting at you with AKs. It's hard to kill your enemy if you can't tell who they are.

Name any country in the world and they would have similar, if not the exact same problems in the Middle East as the US.

A non-nuclear, conventional war featuring the US would be devastating to the US opponent, whether they won or lost. The US has man power, technology, and the world's best Navy and Air Force, in my opinion.

But as the thread's title indicates, North Korea is no pushover due to their military size, training, and "heart". However, they are out-manned and out-gunned, and "heart" can only get you so far.

I coach sports, and there's no way I would send out a small kid with decent talent and a lot of heart to try and defend or tackle a super talented kid that's 6-4" and weighs 235.

My point is this: while North Korea is no pushover, they can't match up with the US military in a conventional war.

Originally posted by petar258
Those americans that think bombing North Korea will be key to success must be sent to first line of war. Then they will remember Stalingrad from WW2 - hungry bad equiped russians(and part of them was not soldiers) stay till death but did not retreat. And german troops did not win.
Something like this will happen in North Korea because most of population there will fight to protect their homeland, because they trust in this and dont have other possibility...

It was actually the Germans who suffered equipment/supply problems as the battle raged on and their supply lines got cut. While Germans may have had a technological advantage, the Russians were much better equipped for the harsh winter which lead to poor German troop performance as German trigger fingers literally grew slow from cold trench foot/frostbite became problematic. Not to mention German morale falling on its face due to Russian snipers and the best German tanks floundering from shaped charge attacks they couldn't defend against(coming from tall buildings which machine guns and tank turrets couldn't target).

reply to post by wisefoolishness

The US has man power, technology, and the world's best Navy and Air Force, in my opinion.

you're correct that's only your subjective view situation extends far out of Just war USA vs. NK.

reply to post by Tetrarch42

Not to mention German morale falling on its face due to Russian snipers

war is very complex thing, but you Just have concentrated upon snipers & Winter

Originally posted by wisefoolishness
My point is this: while North Korea is no pushover, they can't match up with the US military in a conventional war.

What you're forgetting is that they don't need to match the US, as this war would transform from a conventional into guerrilla warfare sooner than later. And Americans have no clue how to fight this kind of war. It's a different ball game altogether from conventional warfare. Remember, South Koreans look just like the North Koreans. It would be like groping in the dark for the elusive enemy. If you can't recognize them, you can't clobber them.

And then you forget this war would be fought thousands of miles away. How many troops does America have in Korea? 25,000. Just about two divisions. Add the 19 divisions that South Korea has which makes it 21 divisions. How much do the North Koreans have? 80 combat divisions! In mountain warfare, an attacker requires a ratio of 10:1 for capture of an objective. Considering the amount of fire support available with the US for an attack including the cruise missiles from the Carrier Strike Groups and aerial bombardment by B-52s, this ratio would probably come down to 3:1. So, where are the troops required for a full scale invasion of North Korea?

Originally posted by mobiusmale
reply to post by Subjective Truth

 

The point is the North is not a military powerhouse. Canada could take out Detroit if the wanted to but in the end they have a weak military.

The problem with this scenario is that, what with the line-ups on the Ambassador Bridge (bridge to the USA) and all, and the amount of time it would take for our APC's and our tank (singular) to clear U.S. Customs on the other side...U.S. forces would likely get wise to the fact that something was up.

U.S. Customs Agent, "Do you have anything to declare?"

Canadian Soldier, "Just that we are going to kick your butts today."

U.S. Customs Agent, "Ok, please pull up to the inspection building over there, and an officer will come out to meet you."

Canadian Soldier, "Aaaaw, geeze! I am supposed to be at Checkpoint Alpha in about five minutes...and the Leafs game starts at 7:00. We don't have time for this #$@%"

....end of invasion.

I loved this reply to my post. But I really do think they could put down the beer and turn off the hockey long enough to take out Detroit. Remember Detroit is just a shadow of what it once was.

reply to post by OrionHunterX


They may have 80 vs 21 divisions in favor of NK, but within hours they will have no power do to the sky raining down cruise missles and our plains taking out their air defense. The command and control will be lost in hours like Iraq. Those 80 might as well be 800.

We need not and will not invade.

There will not be a war though IMO. It is a stalemate with Soel and NK getting smashed if a war breaks out.

Super-EMP weapons

Last but not least, senior Russian EMP experts warned the EMP Commission that “brain drain” from Russia enabled North Korea to make what the Russians call “Super-EMP” weapons.11 According to Russian open sources, these are small, low-yield nuclear weapons that can generate extraordinarily powerful EMP fields, many times more powerful than the E1 EMP from a multi-megaton weapon.12 Both of North Korea’s nuclear weapons tests that produced low yield “fizzles” look very like what would be expected from a “Super-EMP” weapon. According to open source reporting, South Korean military intelligence claims North Korea is receiving Russian help developing “Super-EMP” weapons.13 www.thespacereview.com...


All this talk of how many ships or tanks each side has is a complete distraction.

NK wants to re-unify the peninsula - to do that they need to take out the US - a goal they have repeatedly stated!

Thier one and only way of doing that is an EMP strike on the continental US, then retreat into thier nuclear bunker system - large enought o house and feed thier entire military for over a yr.

They have been collaborating with Iran very closely - who has also been testing missile detonation and delivery compatible with EMP warheads.


These two have been set up and enabled by Russia and China as proxies to cripple the US.

reply to post by OrionHunterX


Just like in the current war with Iraq, the conflict would initially be conventional. Only after conventional forces were defeated in Iraq did combat with "insurgents" really start to become a problem. I think this would happen the same way, aka later rather than sooner. It would really be pretty stupid to say 'Here comes the US Air Force and Navy, send out the insurgents and tell the regulars to go home.'

This time, though, I think once the North Korean government has fallen, and their conventional forces have been defeated, and barring action by the Chinese, the South Koreans would take over the reconstruction in North Korea, which is different than the US occupying Iraq. Now we have Koreans occupying Korea, and hopefully that would lead to a quick reunification and less violence.

You make it sound like North Koreans and South Koreans are identical in every way. Don't you think their battle uniforms are different? They even have different flags featured on those uniforms. American troops aren't all stupid. They're going to be briefed about the difference regarding North and South Koreans. Plus, if the guy next to you isn't shooting at you, and the guy across the field is, who are you going to shoot at?

Which war has the US fought recently that hasn't been thousands of miles away? I can't remember any close ones (as far as distance goes). The distance from Washington, DC to Baghdad is just over 6000 miles. The distance from Washington, DC to Kabul, Afghanistan is over 6900 miles. The distance from Washington, DC to Pyongyang, North Korea is just over 6800 miles.

The US has air bases all over the pacific, and if all hell really does break loose, American troops will be dispatched from San Diego into the Pacific before you can blink. You're underestimating the US' ability to transport soldiers. And they really don't need to send a ton of troops. A full on invasion of North Korea would be dumb. The American soldiers stationed in Korea+the South Koreans+ any extra troops sent from the US+ US/SK AF+ US/SK Navy= more than enough to defeat North Korea, collapse their government and allow the South Koreans to begin the process of unification with minimal US involvement.