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The new beginning - the first day: light diffused Let there be light Neither here nor in verses 14-18 is an original creative act implied. A different word is used. The sense is, made to appear; made visible. The sun and moon were created "in the beginning." The "light" of course came from the sun, but the vapour diffused the light. Later the sun appeared in an unclouded sky.
Originally posted by noahproductions
Well,... whatever... what about this:
If God is light and the light is in Him,... then why is it totally dark before He created anything?????????!!!!!!
Which God did create this earth?
A dark God?
If you read the revelation of John in the Nag Hammadi scriptures, you will find this is indeed the truth.
The same god that condemned his creation in the first week.
The one who said he is a jalous god (why would he be jalous?), because he knew there was a higher God.
I think that chapter One of Genesis is more a commentary on the rest of the book. What I mean is that it is later than the more organic Second chapter but organizes it to clarify some ambiguities and to be maybe more specific about what is god and what is not god, to better separate the creator and the creation.
If your a Christian please relate what YOU believe on this matter.
In an old documentary film taken in the laboratory at the International Institute of Biophysics, Dr. Popp opens a chamber about the size of a bread box. He places a fresh cutting from a plant and a wooden match in a plastic container inside the dark chamber and closed the light proof door. Immediately he switches on the photomultiplyer and the image shows up on a computer screen. The match stick is black while the green, glowing silhouette of the leaves is clearly visible. Dr. Popp exclaims, "We now know, today, that man is essentially a being of light."
In 1976, they were ready for their first test with cucumber seedlings. The photomultiplier showed that photons, or light waves, of a surprisingly high intensity were being emitted from the seedlings. In case the light had to do with an effect of photosynthesis, they decided that their next test -- with potatoes -- would be to grow the seedling plants in the dark. This time, when the seedlings were placed in the photomultiplier, they registered an even higher intensity of light. What's more, the photons in the living systems they'd examined were more coherent than anything they'd ever seen.
Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
That may sound like a stupid question but....
Recently I had a very unpleasant exchange with a hardcore atheist
that claimed that most Christians believe the Sun was created after vegetation or grass.
He says the bible teaches that, I disagreed.
I found that some fundamentalist actually do believe this.
If your a Christian please relate what YOU believe on this matter.
Personally I believe God created our solar systems
Sun in the context of Genesis 1:1 embedded within the "Heavens" many millions of eons ago.
SCOFIELD REFERENCE NOTES
The new beginning - the first day: light diffused Let there be light Neither here nor in verses 14-18 is an original creative act implied. A different word is used. The sense is, made to appear; made visible. The sun and moon were created "in the beginning." The "light" of course came from the sun, but the vapour diffused the light. Later the sun appeared in an unclouded sky.
NOTE: This thread is for Christians that believe in creation to give their honest opinions, and not for atheists to hijack it.
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
The bible does not say grass was created before the creation of the Sun & Moon, your interpretation is clearly wrong.
1: Saying my 'interpretation' is wrong doesn't make it wrong.
2: I'll quote Genesis from the beginning and point out where it actually says that grass was created before the Sun and Moon.
From Genesis
1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Ok, we have a space known as 'heaven' and a space known as Earth/
1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Ok, so everything is dark...
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Boom, out of nowhere: light! What a great idea...too bad a light source isn't given yet....it's just...light.
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
God is awfully pleased with himself, decides to separate light from darkness....but still not a light source in sight.
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Alright...day and night pass without....the sun...
Well, I guess you're saying they're epochs written metaphorically as days.
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
...and there's no such thing as a 'firmament', so let's just toss that passage right out.
1:7 And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Again, no 'firmament'.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
So the sky is Heaven...capital H, not lowercase h.
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Well, this also contradicts what we know about the Earth's formation...
1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Alright, now we have dry land and wet sea...but no...nope, nowhere do we have the the Sun or Moon.
1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
We have vegetation...at least vegetation as it was known to the cultures of the fertile crescent.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
God seems pretty good at all of this, even if he's getting the order wrong
.
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Alright, three days in, no light source but we somehow have a marked passage of time without light sources.
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Ok, I guess this means stars. Which are definitely a lot more important than just 'lights in the sky', being pretty much the same as our own Sun...
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
So where was the light coming from before?
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Well, there are several problems.
1: The Sun isn't a 'great light', it's a close 'light'...and by light it's really a self-sustaining fusion reaction.
2: The Moon isn't a 'light', it's a giant reflector
3: This is the very first mention of the Sun
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
So they're in the firmament...which is around the Earth...which means this is a geocentric model...which is even more wrong.
1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Pleased with himself again.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
And there we have it, the Sun came about on the fourth day and it is in the firmament which is around the Earth
The Bible seems to fail awfully hard at science and we aren't even 500 words into it.
Vegetation couldn't grow without the sun anyway, that really does defy science.
Which is why the Bible is wrong on the issue.
The planet would be colder than Pluto, a frozen wasteland unable to support no life whatsoever.
Yes, which is why the Bible is wrong. It seems to not know that the Sun is the source of heat and light in our Solar System.
It refers to the light from the described heavenly bodies that were preexisting.
I have already explained it.
No, you simply stated that the Sun is preexisting, even though I pointed out that the Sun is created along with the Moon on the fourth day.
Light is preexistent, but heavenly bodies which produce light are not brought about until the fourth day.
That whole argument is asinine, and you know it.
Yeah, which is why I'm wondering why you're sticking to it. I mean, I've repeatedly shown you that you're wrong, yet you seem to have some sort of 'anti-evidence' filter on your computer. I even took the quotes from Genesis verse by verse now. There's no way you can deny my claims when I've demonstrated them in detail repeatedly, to the ridiculous point that I took Nearly 500 words of Genesis and broke them down.
Now, if you'd like to provide a counter-interpretation, go ahead. But don't simply say mine is wrong. I hope for at least the level of detail I went into in your counter-interpretation before you dismiss mine.edit on 23/11/10 by madnessinmysoul because: Formatting and a bit of extra text
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by edmc^2
The difference between light in those verses? I thought I already differentiated the two...I guess I'll recourse to Hebrew then.
Because, you know, a troll often researches and posts sources when people object to claims.
I started out here then I used the handy-dandy "C" button to get the Hebrew words.
In Genesis verse 3 the word for light is: 'owr
From here
Part of Speech: feminine noun
Biblical Usage:
1) light
a) light of day
b) light of heavenly luminaries (moon, sun, stars)
c) day-break, dawn, morning light
d) daylight
e) lightning
f) light of lamp
g) light of life
h) light of prosperity
i) light of instruction
j) light of face (fig.)
k) Jehovah as Israel's light
Usage of this word as 'the sun' is restrained to only a single passage in the whole Bible, and it isn't Genesis.
2Sa 23:4 And [he shall be] as the light of the morning, [when] the sun riseth, [even] a morning without clouds; [as] the tender grass [springing] out of the earth by clear shining after rain.
In each case in Genesis when the 'sun' is referenced as a light the word ma'owr is used.
From here
Part of Speech: masculine noun
Biblical usage: 1) light, luminary
So an entirely different word is used between the two, that's what the difference is. Hell, one is a masculine noun and the other is a feminine noun.
But I guess Blue_Jay33 is right, I'm just a troll.
I think the form of Genesis 2 was written in a style reminiscent of similar creation stories of neighboring countries, where while it may have seemed a good enough explanation at the time, later it became evident that with the changing of the times, too many unanswered questions arose that made it somewhat obsolete. The story was written again in a way which addressed those new questions while not being too contradictory to the older version.
Originally posted by RuneSpider
Personally, I'm still wandering which creation story is held as true, the one in Genesis 1:1-2:3, or the one in Genesis 2:4-25.
Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
I've read thousands of near death experiences, and though no two experiences are the same, the vast majority report being drawn like a magnet, into a tunnel, then propelling at speeds beyond belief to the light. Even the Prophet Daniel was told, that one day knowledge would increase from people travelling to and fro. The man was having the most spiritual events of his life with angels etc from other wordly dimensions and realms.