Review of the TSA X-ray backscatter body scanner safety report: hide your kids, hide your wife

Review of the TSA X-ray backscatter body scanner safety report: hide your kids, hide your wife

myhelicaltryst.blogspot.com

Essentially, it appears that an X-ray beam is rastered across the body, which highlights the importance of one of the specific concerns raised by the UCSF scientists... what happens if the machine fails, or gets stuck, during a raster. How much radiation would a person's eye, hand, testicle, stomach, etc be exposed to during such a failure. What is the failure rate of these machines? What is the failure rate in an operational environment? Who services the machine?

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is an excellent article by someone who studies the effects of radiation on biology at the genetic level.

As you read this you will note that not only is this guy not an alarmist, but he draws a very clear depiction of how much we, the American people, don't know about these devices. And not only do we not know about it, but no one does.

Not only that, but if you look at the redacted report from Johns Hopkins on this information... you will see that there is a LOT that someone does not want the American people to know...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/42c976256a83.jpg[/atsimg]

When will we stop allowing ourselves to be subject to such dangerous behavior?


The article goes on to say

Last spring, a group of scientists at the University of California at San Francisco (UCSF) including John Sedat Ph.D., David Agard Ph.D., Robert Stroud, Ph.D. and Marc Shuman, M.D. sent a letter of concern to the TSA regarding the implementation of their 'Advanced Imaging Technology', or body scanners as a routine method of security screening in US airports. Of specific concern is the scanner that uses X-ray back-scattering. In the letter they raise some interesting points, which I've quoted below:

* "Our overriding concern is the extent to which the safety of this scanning device has been adequately demonstrated. This can only be determined by a meeting of an impartial panel of experts that would include medical physicists and radiation biologists at which all of the available relevant data is reviewed."
* "The X-ray dose from these devices has often been compared in the media to the cosmic ray exposure inherent to airplane travel or that of a chest X-ray. However, this comparison is very misleading: both the air travel cosmic ray exposure and chest X-rays have much higher X-ray energies and the health consequences are appropriately understood in terms of the whole body volume dose. In contrast, these new airport scanners are largely depositing their energy into the skin and immediately adjacent tissue, and since this is such a small fraction of body weight/vol, possibly by one to two orders of magnitude, the real dose to the skin is now high."
* "In addition, it appears that real independent safety data do not exist."
* "There is good reason to believe that these scanners will increase the risk of cancer to children and other vulnerable populations. We are unanimous in believing that the potential health consequences need to be rigorously studied before these scanners are adopted."

myhelicaltryst.blogspot.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I am seeing a pattern

you got a group trying to get the scanners removed
you got another group trying to get the pat down removed...

now, I am not much of an alarmist, however...does this sort of smell like someone is desperately trying to reduce airport security to pretty much nothing for some reason?

I don't know much about these scanners...what I read in the blotted out article didn't help my understanding at all..and the followup seems to be making assumptions based on lack of knowing (never good).

Is there two seperate camps here...one that wants to do away with the body pat down, and another that wants to remove the scan...or are they one in the same...and if it is the same...my question is simple...

how do you stop another underwear/shoe bomber attempt?

reply to post by HunkaHunka


SF the are a hand full of scientist that claim that wifi is bad for us as well, and not to mention CNN mentioned that microwave ovens have been discovered to be dangerous to our health just a few weeks ago.

My questions are these:

Who is in charge o calibrating and maintaining the machines?

Is their efficacy tested or measured in any way? How often is this done?

Are the TSA agents certified to use this technology?

Does the machine have a warning or indicator to alert any operational or safety concerns?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Saturn... I think it boils down to one camp for me...

Given the amount of money to be made, budgets allotted, and etc, the actual security and safety of the devices and techniques put into place have been left blowing in the wind...

I wouldn't be opposed to these scanners if the process and studies behind it were as transparent as it makes our bodies....

The pat downs are a completely different thing.

So now I can't take my son flying because

1. A loose cannon of a process as it regards the safety of these devices
2. A groping by strangers in such a manner which is not allowed otherwise for his own safety.

To answer your question.. you don't try to stop an underwear bomber... you cannot stop a targeted attack unless you put the entire American people under the same security as the President.... and that is what they are attempting to do...

However, if they must perform scans for our safety, then don't piss on the mission by using unsafe scanners!

Originally posted by kosmicjack
My questions are these:

Who is in charge o calibrating and maintaining the machines?

Is their efficacy tested or measured in any way? How often is this done?

Are the TSA agents certified to use this technology?

Does the machine have a warning or indicator to alert any operational or safety concerns?

These are some of the questions raised in the article as well....

I don't think at $29,000 a year the TSA members are qualified enough to carry my bags let alone run a radiation machine.

reply to post by HunkaHunka
Everyone is so phobic about the scanners yet they are willingly placing high doses of microwaves next to their brains in the form of a cell phone go figure. I welcome a pat down myself and I will end it with "was it good for you." LOL

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Review of the TSA X-ray backscatter body scanner safety report: hide your kids, hide your wife

myhelicaltryst.blogspot.com

Essentially, it appears that an X-ray beam is rastered across the body, which highlights the importance of one of the specific concerns raised by the UCSF scientists... what happens if the machine fails, or gets stuck, during a raster. How much radiation would a person's eye, hand, testicle, stomach, etc be exposed to during such a failure. What is the failure rate of these machines? What is the failure rate in an operational environment? Who services the machine?

(visit the link for the full news article)

Right. Are servicing personnel part time at minimum wage with no benefits like the agents who operate the machines?

How many of us would get a medical Xray by a technician who had only a few hours of training most of which was dedicated to security and not Xray machines. None of would want that to be the case but here we are going through these damned machines like sheep just because some clown at DHS says we have to.

Not me and not my wife.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I am seeing a pattern

you got a group trying to get the scanners removed
you got another group trying to get the pat down removed...

now, I am not much of an alarmist, however...does this sort of smell like someone is desperately trying to reduce airport security to pretty much nothing for some reason?

I don't know much about these scanners...what I read in the blotted out article didn't help my understanding at all..and the followup seems to be making assumptions based on lack of knowing (never good).

Is there two seperate camps here...one that wants to do away with the body pat down, and another that wants to remove the scan...or are they one in the same...and if it is the same...my question is simple...

how do you stop another underwear/shoe bomber attempt?

The same way you are able to prevent cancer, or natural disasters, or wars from continuing. You can't. The ONLY way to prevent terrorism is to get rid of the terrorists. Hatred is instilled in children at an early age. You would literally need to kill a large population of the earth to get rid of this problem.

I've been trying to find my old US Army NBC manuals that I held on to after taking an NBC defence course many years ago. Maybe some ATSers could help me out. There is a peice of military equipment that looks like a wrist watch that when put in a reader will tell you how many cGys of radiation you have received since it has been put on. It looks very much like those tacky little magnetic-balance-wrist thingys that you see many people wearing right now. I wonder if that item is available to the public as surplus or if there is a civillian equivilant that would make it thorugh the metal detector. The idea behind the military equipment is to give commanders an idea as to the combat effectiveness of troops after being exposed to varying levels of radiation. My idea, if possible to get a hold of one or it's civilan counterpart and then get it through the metal detectors, is to use it to guage the total radiation exposure by travelers going through these x-ray machines.

I personally have no need for it as I swore of flying after a trip from Atlanta to Orlando back in '08, but something that measures total exposure might be useful to a frequent traveler who has no appreciation for freedom but wants to remain healthy.

EDIT: Googled NBC defense and came up with this.

. IM-93A/UD Dosimeter. This meter indicates the total radiation dose received by soldiers. It is the size of a fountain pen and easy to read. Each platoon is normally assigned two IM-93s. Platoon leaders maintain a record of the times and amounts of each reading

From Global Security

Guess I was wrong about the wrist thingy or maybe I'm just getting old. I know there either is or was a wristwatch type thing that did the same thing. Now does anyone know if the radiation emitted by the X-ray machine is the same as this would detect or not?

Something tells me if you held a geiger counter in front of one it would sound like you just droped a thousand bb's on the floor.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

how do you stop another underwear/shoe bomber attempt?

You don't and this is life. No matter the amount of security and safety measures and freedoms reduced to nothing more then mundane privileges you will still never be completely safe from people who intend to hurt you.

Following the insane thought pattern of those wishing to be safe and secure at all costs will inevitably end with everyone cutting off their arms and legs to eliminate the threat of ever being punched or kicked.

It is completely insane and illogical to think you can or ever will be able to prevent such things, and a world that comes close is a world I don't want to live in.

Why has there been no civilian attempt to establish these basics? Surely there are laws in place regarding safe radiation levels, and can verify the emissions?
Otherwise this is voluntarily taking a cancer pill. Good faith is not apllicable to this situation.

reply to post by harryhaller


You are exactly right. One would expect you could walk through with a dosimeter on, get dosed, and then read/publish the findings...

Aren't you meant to be subjected to very little x-ray radiation over your whole life? Isn't this why you shouldn't have too many x-rays when in hospital?

And now we're subjected to it every time we fly?

Are these scanners in every airport in all western countries now? I ask this because the last time I flew was last year from London to Malta and there was only the regular metal detectors.

I've lived in Northern Ireland for all but 6 years of my life, and I plan on spending the rest of my days here. All through my childhood, I lived in a country where a trip into town to do some shopping ran a fair risk of being caught up in a bombscare.

I remember the panic when a bomb exploded in the shop my aunt worked in (she wasn't working that day). I remember hearing the explosion in the local army base in the 90s. Just like everybody else over here, I have plenty of stories about "the Troubles", and I missed the worst of it purely by virtue of only being born in 1974.

Rule 1: Don't give in to terrorists.

How do you stop another underwear bomber? My best suggestion would be to stop voting. We all know full well that every terrorist act over the last God knows how many years, including the NI Troubles, have all been orchestrated and sanctioned by the governments who later react to "prevent" these things happening.

If you allow yourself to be scared into staying in your homes, not going out, not flying, if you change your life 1 single bit because of terrorists, you are playing right into the hands of those who seek to harm and cause terror. If you allow your freedom to be curtailed, if you allow yourself to be subjected to demeaning and de-humanising security procedures, if you allow your rights as a human being to be trampled on, you have lost everything, and if you allow it to happen, you deserve to loose everything.

I am a human being. I believe and live by common law. Do not harm another, or allow another to be harmed, do not steal or cause loss, do not cheat.

It's only when fat and lazy people get up off their soft McDonald's backsides and insist to be treated like a human being that we will see any change in this world of ours. Grumbling on the internet won't do it. If you keep voting, if you keep silent, you may as well be giving the orders to bomb and kill yourself.

It's a game, all you have to do is stop playing by their rules, and stop letting other people dictate to you what you can and cannot do. The Common Law covers everything. Those are the real rules of the game.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Your question is irrelevant because if the underwear bomber would have actually gone though the standard security measures; they would have caught him. This is a common misconception but its true. He managed to somehow get passed all security without even a ticket!

No matter how much you invest in security it wont make a difference because if someone wants to kill some people he can easily fill up a truck with explosives and just drive it into any densely populated area.

What we need to do is instead of stripping our freedoms in the name of security; we need to look at why we are pissing people off enough to kill us in the first place. Its a very simple equation. We started this war really 20 years ago when we started sticking our fingers into the Middle East and fortifying ourselves into their countries killing off civilians. Al Qaeda has specifically stated they dont like us because we are are destroying their land and innocents.

reply to post by SaturnFX

you got a group trying to get the scanners removed you got another group trying to get the pat down removed... now, I am not much of an alarmist, however...does this sort of smell like someone is desperately trying to reduce airport security to pretty much nothing for some reason?

THANK YOU!! I was starting to think I was the only one who was noticing this. Since when does the media hang onto a small bone and beat it death, unless they have an agenda? People need to stop being led around by the nose rings in terms of allowing the media to work everyone into a frenzy. Sit back, chill out, and just watch. Don't discuss, don't debate, don't get angry, just watch and pay attention. Always question the person who demands your reaction to something. Learn not to react until you know their motives.

reply to post by SaturnFX
Ha by getting rid of the cia,I've been on this planet for quite a few years and almost all of the incidents involving airplanes can be connected to our own alphabet agencies.How do you think the "underwear bomber" boarded the plane? eyewitnesses saw him being escorted passed through security to the plane by men in suits.They did this to get these scanners in airports,they create the problem,and then solve the problem by passing more restrictions on our freedoms and have been doing this for many years it's not a secret.