Public Religious Displays

This is more of an individuals problem/case thread, but feel free to expand it after my initial questions are addressed.

My city currently has a nativity scene displayed alone in the public park. According to the Supreme Court decision of County of Allegheny v. ACLU, I believe that my city is violating the law. The case of County of Allegheny v. ACLU found that a lone nativity scene in front a courthouse was unconstitutional, but that a multi-part display, consisting of a Christmas tree, a menorah, and a sign, was not unconstitutional, for it showed a general theme of the holiday season. In a similar fashion, the public park sits right across the street from the city building, with the display standing along the main road in town. As I said before, this nativity scene is currently standing alone.

Would I have a legitimate argument if I complained on the grounds of County of Allegheny v. ACLU? What other grounds do I have to make a good argument on?

reply to post by PieKeeper


What other grounds do I have to make a good argument on?


Common Sense..?





Absolutely address this issue - there is no reason the City should allow only one example of ignorance to be displayed...





BTW - PieKeeper is a tight name...especially considering turkey day is manana.

This came up in Washington State last year, and if I remember correctly, it came down to the city not allowing an atheistic display. I believe it was rules that religious displays could be on display, but that they could not discriminate against another religions wishes to display their scene as well.

So I'd say, go, as if you can put up an atheistic display. If they say no, you have a case on your hands.

Let it ride! 'Tis the season for displays featuring fictional characters... Santa, Frosty the Snowman, Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, the infant Cosmic Jewish Zombie...

But if you must raise a fuss, then petition them to add a Menorah and a tree decorated to honor the festival of Yule... If they balk, SUE THEIR BUTTS OFF!!!

reply to post by PieKeeper


don't forget the jolly ole lemon test

en.wikipedia.org...

I wish they did have atheist displays.
I'd wander around and look for ways to sue them for offending me.
Not that it would accomplish anything. It would just be because I enjoy doing everything I can to limit the freedoms and beliefs or disbeliefs of others.
That's what it's all about right?

How can I possibly get through a day if I can't find a way to interfere with the traditions, beliefs and very lives of my countrymen?

reply to post by badgerprints


It's actually about holding government entities to standards of secular equality and abstinence from endorsing particular religions.

Just a reminder of what the 1st Amendment actually says.....

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

How is displaying a nativity scene in a public park equal to Congress making a law establishing a religion?

Weird how "seperation of church and state" is not even mentioned in the Constitution. But so many people just assume it is.

I'd rather not see religion in public, but "believers" have a right to free expression too. So long as they are not endangering people or harassing them by forcing unwanted interactions, it should be fine.

As for publicly FUNDED displays or displays done by cities or any level of government organizational structure.. That should NOT be allowed imo.

I really wish religion would be viewed as a more personal choice. It really creates a lot of turmoil in societies and it is clearly a destructive force on a social level. On a personal level, it is what one makes of it, just as non-belief is. It just doesn't need to be discussed at all publicly.

Just do your thing and leave the rest of us out of it, completely.

reply to post by Carseller4


The constitution doesn't explicitly say a lot of things. Things like "separation of church and state" are formulated by parts of the constitution, pieces of other official documents, the intentions of the Founding Fathers, etc.

reply to post by Carseller4


And those who believe in the Cosmic Jewish Zombie are FREE to erect their nativity scenes on their own property or that of a church, but property belonging to the public at large should NOT be used for such a purpose. It's not just freedom OF religion, it's freedome FROM religion as well! If it doesn't belong in a public school, it doesn't belong in a public park!

You should only complain if it bothers you ...if you are truly offended by the image of a family celebrating the birth of their child? This is offensive how? The nativity scene disguises the greatness of the person who we commemorate by it, by its humility of circumstance. Celebrating the birth of the person who urged the world to turn the other cheek, who said when a beggar asks for alms offer your coat as well, and love your neighbor as yourself.....where is the offensive part?

reply to post by Missing Blue Sky


Well, first of all, it's a symbol of Christianity. Looking at the past of Christianity, and things done in the name of Christianity, some might find Christianity (and it's associated symbols) offensive.

Second, like I said, it's also about holding our government to a standard.

....to Carseller4 ---- just a little reminder that congress has intentionally "prohibited the free exercise thereof" many times and gotten away with it...

...to PieKeeper ---- go to the aclu website, find the office for your state, ask your question via email and see what they say...

www.aclu.org...

...but, first, i would ask someone on the town council if they intend to incorporate other traditional xmas decorations at that location - and - who gets to decide the theme thats used.... it could be that a social group got permission to put up the nativity scene and, if thats the case, ask how you can get on the list to put up decorations... be courteous and find out as much as you can about how they decide whats appropriate for the town park...

Here we go, found a link to an article about the trouble in Washington State that I was referring to. Turns out it was two years ago, not last year:
www.foxnews.com...

OLYMPIA, Wash. — An atheist group has unveiled an anti-religion placard in the state Capitol, joining a Christian Nativity scene and "holiday tree" on display during December.

The atheists' sign was installed Monday by Washington members of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a national group based in Madison , Wis.

With a nod to the winter solstice — the year's shortest day, occurring in late December — the placard reads, in part, "There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds." Read more: www.foxnews.com...

OP if the sight of a Christmas decoration offends you then do not look at it.

I see religious displays in stores owned by people from India. It does not offend me.

Tolerance of others religious displays is a desired trait.

If you are hell bent to uphold the laws of your state then may I suggest you consider these laws of West Virgina and start having people fined or arrested.

The folling laws are in effect in your state:
1. For each act of public swearing a person shall be fined one dollar.
2. It is illegal to sleep while on a train.
3. A man can have sex with an animal under 40 pounds.
4. Firemen may not whistle or flirt at any woman passing a fire house.

On September 21, 2010 a law was finally taken off the books that outlawed adultry and sex between unmarried individuals.

You also might check on the law that states sexual intercourse between a married couple must be done missionary style or there could be fines or jail time.

Does Christianity frighten you?

Maybe you should build a decoration that promotes atheism.

With all that is happening in our world can't you find something more pressing than a religious display to worry about?

Think of it as art. Is art offensive? I think not.

Unless they refuse to permit any other holiday displays, you're likely out of luck. And unless it's a nativity scene owned by the city you're going to have a hard time arguing that the government is promoting religion. Also you should keep in mind that not all public parks are government owned. Some are owned by non-profits, for example, and they can put whatever they want in their park.

In other news, I've never understood why people go out of their way to be offended by something as harmless as a nativity scene... We all have the option of not staring at things we dislike, and it being visible does not automatically equate with "religion's being shoved down my throat!!1!!!!1!" It costs you nothing to allow others to believe as they wish without taking offense to anything and everything they do.

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
Think of it as art. Is art offensive? I think not.

It is not art.

I will never think of religion as art.

Originally posted by dizziedame
OP if the sight of a Christmas decoration offends you then do not look at it.

Oh go choke a turkey.

I truly hate this approach to any argument/discussion/debate/disagreement/etc.