'Koreas on 'brink of war' because of Seoul, Pyongyang says'.brand new cnn article

reply to post by aRogue


My son-in-law is stationed in that theater right now, and is an officer heading up the strategic intel effort for one of the service branches involved in this standoff. NK's nuke capacity can be completely eliminated before it ever warms up for take off, and fighter planes aren't even considered when the subject turns to strike capability in any theater. They're used for containment and small jobs. An all-out effort wouldn't even feature that kind of weapon system. The high tech battle candy is what 21st century war is all about, and believe me, no one's ever seen what the US could do to a defined adversary if it wasn't delivery the hell in restrained, measured doses.

As for the Army, what they do well is kill on a wholesale level after the big stuff has crippled the enemy's ability to mount an offensive. What we've generally used them for is babysitting what's left of an enemy's homeland after the first week or so of the "war". The entire world knows this, and no one in power will invite this into their living room if they can avoid it. Not even N. Korea, and definitely not China. China wants to own us. They don't want to try to beat us in armed conflict.

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
South Korea and the U.S. wouldn't fare any better the second time around than they did the first time around.

It's an entirely different ball game. The world isn't still reeling from the impacts of WW2. The US military isn't a shadow of it's former self. And is infact by far the most powerful military in the world.

South Korea isn't a break away province involved in a civil war, it's a power in it's own right and has forces superior to those of North Korea. Japan is an ally. Taiwan is an ally. Malaysia, Sinagapore, India, Australia all US allies. All with fairly modern military forces that weren't depleted in the worst war mankind has ever seen.

The US is now a highly advanced Nuclear power with weapons and capabilities it didn't have in the first Korean war, and has fought and gained experience from many conflicts since then and it's hardened troops and vastly superior naval and air power could obliterate North Korea.

I'm not a very pro America person. But that's just the way it is. Sure North Korea might be able to inflict some substantial damage on South Korea. But there is no way even with Chinese support that North Korea would survive a war with the US and it's allies.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Captain... Are you just here to rile him up? Grow up and get over YOURSELF!.. I believe that the US is invinsible. (pick at me)
I do not think that there are 2 countries combined that could take on the military complex called America. I base this on Tech... and standing hardware, and FACTS!!

Your opinion of america's weakness is based on hatred of our foreign policy and our Govt. But... Dont be ignorant of the facts.. Nobody in this generation has seen even 25% of the full force of the US military. You have seen a politically correct / neutered military....When the time finally comes for this country to take the gloves off and fight for survival, you doubters will be in the nearest bomb shelter, wondering who unleashed hell upon the world. Period!!!

Do you think they have spent all of this money and technology on 2nd place? You are the one that needs to get over yourself.

Our Govt. is crap.. Our foreign policy is crap... But our military is like a nicely polished 63 vette sitting in the garage, just waiting for us to put the minivan away and take it for a ride!

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Wowsers
reply to post by aRogue

 

How about the imperialist Japenese, Germans on the western front (whom where 35 years more advanced than any other country), the Italians, the same group of jihadist that defeated the great Soviet Union, Desert Storm while Iraq was considered to be a strong military foe, We never lost a single battle in Vietnam or Iraq just moral support by the civillians smarty.

We fought the Japanese and Germany when they had been ravaged by years of war already.

We nary won a battle in vietnam, considering it was guerilla warfare. Not many 'battles' to be won.

Iraq was not considered a true level foe by anyone except the u.s. media. "They had the fifth biggest army in the world" yeah yeah yeah, but have you bothered to look up the dropoff after the big 4?

The US is not invincible. And has not faced a modern military superpower in a VERY long time.

Keep in mind that since WWII, the US has not engaged in full warfare with any adversary. It's always been either restrained or an outright police action. We've never seen the US military engage in a full housecleaning that didn't hold up as soon as the enemy's retaliation capacity was eliminated (usually less than a week's time in recentl situations). No army is effective as an occupational force. No army will ever be effective as an occupational force.

If the US military was allowed to completely obliterate an enemy force, it'd take a week or so - at most - and nothing would grow on that grease spot for generations. Its destructive capacity is sickening.

Originally posted by NorEaster
If the US military was allowed to completely obliterate an enemy force, it'd take a week or so - at most - and nothing would grow on that grease spot for generations. Its destructive capacity is sickening.

I think unlike Iraq, or even Afghanistan. That North Korea would be seen as a more just war in the eyes of the public. I don't think the US would be expected by it's allies to exercise much restraint. Remembering that Japan is one of the USA's top debt holders. If North Korea initiated a war against South Korea, I think most of the world would want a quick resolution.

And it's not like the US needs to do much of the ground work. They could just park a few battlegroups off the coast and provide air and fire support while the already trained and armed and stable South Korean army moved in to occupy North Korea. Then they could leave the "peacekeeping" up to others.

I don't know how much the North Korean's know about the outside world. But I think after all the brainwashing they go through. They would be bewildered by the power of the enemy. They could barely imagine the destruction something like an A10 or the abilities of an f-22. The US Bombers would be doing constant round trips from the carriers and Japan day and night.

I guess one has to have actually been in a war to realize how wrong it is.

I myself was wondering how they convinced me to fight in their stead when I was there.

I guess all of you pro-war people either didn't learn when you were there,or don't know because you never were.

It ain't a god damned football game,it's a teeny bit more permanent and personal.

You can call me what you will,but anyone who thinks war is even an option in this day and age is way worse than anything one could call me.

This war # is just to distract you from your shambles of an economy,just like the rest were.

Aim your anger in the correct direction.

The man in the mirror.

All a nation needs to win a war is a Nuke... or two.

No matter how powerful, advanced, organised, disciplined, skilled, wealthy... you name it, a military might is. A nuke takes all that away.

What i'm trying to say is this. As long as North Korea have a Nuke. They are on par with the rest of the world when it comes to who has the bigger stick. Unless off-course America or whoever have a unseen weapon system which is FAR advanced than what we've seen or known could exist.

If the world goes to war with North Korea. That will mean they possess no Nukes or weapons of mass destruction. Just think about it. If i'm North Korea and about to be demolished within a few hours by hundreds of ally bombs. Give me one good reason why i wouldn't launch the handfull of nukes i have to enemy locations. If i'm going down. I'm sure as hell bringing you down with me.

History has proven that it doesn't matter what technology your armies have, how much of that technology you have or how well they are trained to use it, if they are devoted to a cause, they are less likely to fight as intensely. For instance the RAF had less planes than the Luftwaffe, and less trained and combat experienced pilots, but defeated them in the Battle of Britain, because they were defending their homeland. (Plus RAF Radar did Help a lot) :-) During the First Anglo-Afghan War (1839–42). William Brydon was the only survivor of a troop of 3,600 of the British 44th Regiment of Foot and 12,400 camp followers, who were attacked between Kabul and Jalalabad these Afgahns were also defending their homeland. The soviet Union was defeated by the Mujahadeen, and the current NATO incursion into the same country isn't fairing that much better. The USA lost the Vietnam war to what they thought was a technologically inferior and poorly organised and trained army, not taking into account their attitude and what they wanted to achieve as end result. The British Army who were armed with state of the art rifles and artilery at the time, were defeated at the Battle of Isandlwana by the Zulus, who were armed with spears, simply because the British were over confident and poorly led, and the Zulus were highly motivated and high on the medicine mans Ju Ju. I could go on and list more military blunders, which have occurred throughout, history, due to over confidence, but I'll be in danger of veering off topic. What I'm getting at is, North Korea have a standing army of around 2 million men and women committed to the cause it doesn't matter that they are armed with 50-60 year old weapons, a committed believer, will use a weapon to it's full potential, just look at Kamikaze pilots and the damage they did to allied fleets in WWII. If North Korea decided to invade South Korea in a lightning strike, they could possibly be two thirds through the country before they were counter attacked. The Allies and General McArthur himself under estimated the North Koreans and Chinese in the original Korean War, and were continually defeated and pushed back until the battle of the Pusan Perimeter, all I'm saying is, technology doesn't always give you the edge, over confidence can be a huge weakness, all you have to do is look at wars throughout history. While I do think that S. Korean forces would eventually push back North Korea with the help of other Nations, it would be very costly in lives and not as easy as some might think. Also no-one ever really wins a war, especially the civilians who get caught in the crossfire.

I hope we don't have to find out

Peace :-)

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
I guess one has to have actually been in a war to realize how wrong it is.

I myself was wondering how they convinced me to fight in their stead when I was there.

I guess all of you pro-war people either didn't learn when you were there,or don't know because you never were.

It ain't a god damned football game,it's a teeny bit more permanent and personal.

You can call me what you will,but anyone who thinks war is even an option in this day and age is way worse than anything one could call me.

This war # is just to distract you from your shambles of an economy,just like the rest were.

Aim your anger in the correct direction.

The man in the mirror.

Well said :-)

Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee
History has proven that it doesn't matter what technology your armies have, how much of that technology you have or how well they are trained to use it, if they are devoted to a cause, they are less likely to fight as intensely. For instance the RAF had less planes than the Luftwaffe, and less trained and combat experienced pilots, but defeated them in the Battle of Britain, because they were defending their homeland. (Plus RAF Radar did Help a lot) :-) During the First Anglo-Afghan War (1839–42). William Brydon was the only survivor of a troop of 3,600 of the British 44th Regiment of Foot and 12,400 camp followers, who were attacked between Kabul and Jalalabad these Afgahns were also defending their homeland. The soviet Union was defeated by the Mujahadeen, and the current NATO incursion into the same country isn't fairing that much better. The USA lost the Vietnam war to what they thought was a technologically inferior and poorly organised and trained army, not taking into account their attitude and what they wanted to achieve as end result. The British Army who were armed with state of the art rifles and artilery at the time, were defeated at the Battle of Isandlwana by the Zulus, who were armed with spears, simply because the British were over confident and poorly led, and the Zulus were highly motivated and high on the medicine mans Ju Ju. I could go on and list more military blunders, which have occurred throughout, history, due to over confidence, but I'll be in danger of veering off topic. What I'm getting at is, North Korea have a standing army of around 2 million men and women committed to the cause it doesn't matter that they are armed with 50-60 year old weapons, a committed believer, will use a weapon to it's full potential, just look at Kamikaze pilots and the damage they did to allied fleets in WWII. If North Korea decided to invade South Korea in a lightning strike, they could possibly be two thirds through the country before they were counter attacked. The Allies and General McArthur himself under estimated the North Koreans and Chinese in the original Korean War, and were continually defeated and pushed back until the battle of the Pusan Perimeter, all I'm saying is, technology doesn't always give you the edge, over confidence can be a huge weakness, all you have to do is look at wars throughout history. While I do think that S. Korean forces would eventually push back North Korea with the help of other Nations, it would be very costly in lives and not as easy as some might think. Also no-one ever really wins a war, especially the civilians who get caught in the crossfire.

I hope we don't have to find out

Peace :-)

Also very well said.

The US only has itself to blame for NK.

Sorry, but it's true.

Just as they are to blame for the 2nd Iraq slaughter too.

If they had carried on in 1953, wiped out the North's regime we wouldn't be talking about it today.

Just as if they had carried on to Baghdad in 1991, we wouldn't have the mess we have in Iraq today either.

But then, why only make billions in war profiteering once, when you can do it twice in the same country?

I say the US is to blame, but really i suppose i'm talking about the Mil-Ind-complex within the US.

If you're gonna start something in NK, would you mind actually finishing it next time so the world doesn't have to go through this kind of crap again anytime soon!

If the SK and US military could stroll into NK tomorrow and eliminate their military without raising a sweat, I wouldn't want them to. The Death Toll in both the North and South would be nightmarishly unacceptable.

I remember back in '91 when the news lady on TV confirmed that the US was going to war against Iraq. She was crying. We have got to acknowledge the consequences.

Military conflict must be avoided as an absolute top priority. Look at it this way, if war breaks out, we would lose Seoul as a matter of forfeiture as well as a number of small cities within NK's range.

Also consider, the world's changing, people are changing, China is changing all due to free global communication and collaboration among the populations. Today's North Korea wont last forever.

reply to post by aRogue


Nukes are useless if you cannot launch them at an enemy.

Using weather modification and seismic weaponry, the nukes would never leave the silos.

Bit hard for a nuke to launch if it's silo is a crumbling heap of concrete and under water after being destroyed in an earthquake and freezing flash floods.

Nothing on Earth is as powerful as the weather, including nukes.

reply to post by Recouper


As for NK not lasting forever, it depends on what little kimmy's son is like, and how screwed up his mind is.

Is he a chip of the old block or a moderate, willing to thaw out relations with the world at large, and renounce the insanity his little daddy has whipped up over the decades?

Aside, they may have a standing army of nearly 2 millions, but most of them are disillusioned, starving, broke and all they have to look forwards to is more of the same or a grisly death either during war with SK and it's allies, or at the hands of it's own 'leadership'.

I think if actual war broke out, we'd quickly see a repeat of the same mass surrenders we saw in Iraq.

I'd be willing to bet, many of NK's army, admittedly not all, but a high %, would desert and surrender at the first opportunity, in order to get the hell out of NK.

If NK really wants war then its guaranteed that China would join them against us. In reference to who are the most powerful on both sides it would be the USofA vs China.

With the link below its obvious that (while China does have alot more foot soldiers) they cannot compare to our naval and air fleets. (Another reason why the USS George Washington was dispatched out to the Yellow Sea)


As much as i am NOT for war, im pretty sure that we shouldnt have to worry about the opposing forces, SK and other nations that will join in will just re-inforce our power against them.

The only fear that i have is that both NK and China know that we have a stronger military force, but have an advanced nuke or two under their sleeves that they are itching to use, not including their advanced anti-nuke system that they are spending a LOT of money on.

Side Note: Im VERY confident that the USofA definitely has an anti-nuke system that no one knows about, in the event that one is launched to us we will destroy it ahead of time.

Well my hunch is this after reading the little bits of info on this whole Korean conflict. I think its about to jump off, we have troop mobilizations from the South, we have North Korea saying stop moving your troops or we are going to attack again, we have the USA mobilizing naval pieces as stupid as it sounds for the North to attack with their million or so troops, I think it going to happen either in the next few days or weeks, or quite frankly the next time the North does something stupid in reaction to what they accuse the South to be doing. You do not need to be a genius to see a war coming in Korea. I think it will take just one more dumb move from either side. I am not trying to sound like a paranoid moron or trying to sensationalize this story but when the war starts there their is a good possibility for the war to spread to different regions vs the right and wrong idealism's. Yet who knows maybe some how this tension in Korea will be defused diplomatically and whoever can manage that will deserve the Nobel peace award.

Happy holidays.

Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by aRogue

 

Nukes are useless if you cannot launch them at an enemy.

Using weather modification and seismic weaponry, the nukes would never leave the silos.

Bit hard for a nuke to launch if it's silo is a crumbling heap of concrete and under water after being destroyed in an earthquake and freezing flash floods.

Nothing on Earth is as powerful as the weather, including nukes.

You don't need to able to launch a nuclear warhead, all you need is a few committed individuals and truck to drive it somewhere in the vicinity of what you want to destroy.

reply to post by Truther101

With the link below its obvious that (while China does have alot more foot soldiers) they cannot compare to our naval and air fleets.

Maybe not, but as I said before in a previous post, Over Confidence and the under estimating of an enemy has been the downfall of many a grand army. I don't doubt the USA's superior technology, it's the committed believers in North Koreas army that shouldn't under estimated, no matter how hungry they may be.

Peace :-)

Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

hmmm, You don't think another attack is gonna happen? NK is obviously not scared to go to war they've arguably sunk a battle ship and have shelled a SK Korean island, both of which are ballzy and an open act of hostility, now SK is a pussy nation IMO , if they I'd that to the unites states we'd be over there kicking ass as we speak. But I think NK wants war and I think there gonna get it. ESPECIALY if we cut off chinas supply..!

edit on 24-11-2010 by XxRagingxPandaxX because: Spelling

I'll absolutely agree that NK has made some serious moves. But we've seen it before. Every time they want attention they do something, and that is usually more severe than the last.
They use violence to communicate to the outside world, and it seems to only ever be when they want something.

That's the only reason I believe they might not do anything else. They now know that SK has stated if there is anything more they will respond with absolute force. And their own people are now pressuring them into that too. There is absolutely no doubt that if NK did attack again, SK would have no choice but to launch a complete attack against every known NK military site.

NK would have to be seriously deranged to risk that because of some previously agreed military exercise in a location that actually isn't that close to NK.

It would be suicide to for NK to hit anything across the border right now, and they know it.
The only way this will happen is if there has been some kind of destabilization in the North and/or they've completely lost their minds.

I'm not yet convinced that either is true,

Originally posted by Truther101
If NK really wants war then its guaranteed that China would join them against us. In reference to who are the most powerful on both sides it would be the USofA vs China.

Can I ask why you are so certain that China would become involved in support of NK?

I can't see any evidence that China would support them.

Yes, NK's closest ally is China, but in the grand scheme of things, NK is nothing to China when compared to their global trade agreements.

IMO China would make a lot of noise about it, but they cannot afford to go to war with the rest of the world because of one trade partner firing off weapons like they're fireworks.