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Originally posted by dusty1
You obviously don't own a Bible. The King James version reads this way. Proverbs 31:16
Let me say it one more time, a field. This was an agricultural society. You must live in the city.
The Grand Crus of the Côte de Nuits are some of the smallest appellations in France, less than a hectare in the case of La Romanée. Source
Astyanax: the Bible contains many, many passages regulating the treatment of slaves.
I have been saying this the whole time. Slavery existed, the Law put protections in place to prevent abuse, and preserve peoples dignity.
Today, some people have to be employees. They are not geared to be self employed. If we created a law making employees illegal, society would crumble.
Did you know that the Law had a command against charging interest? Our modern society is built on interest.
Many slaves were far more educated and capable than their masters; in the Roman Empire, slaves often ran their masters' businesses, were entrusted with delicate business or diplomatic negotiations, bossed huge workforces (of other slaves), etc., etc. Google, for your own edification, the name of Tiberius Claudius Narcissus. The Emperors Diocletian and Pertinax were the sons of former slaves who had been manumitted (freedmens' sons enjoyed full Roman citizenship). The Empress Theodora was the daughter of a slave and was a former prostitute. Gibbon and other authorities agree she made a pretty good empress.
This is God you're talking about, not an earthly king or politician. He didn't have to adapt his laws to the social realities of the time. Your point is absurd and nonsensical.
You may want to check out how large fields used to be in pre-Enclosure England. Or, for that matter, the size of some vineyards in Bordeaux, even today. Certain Grands crus come from vineyards not much bigger than a postage stamp. They've been that size since the fourteenth century.
Thank you for helping me make my point on slaves, and their lot in life, if they are treated with respect and given incentive for advancement.
God didn't have to adapt to the social realities of the time, but He did.
Check out the vineyards in Israel.
What does the size of a modern Israeli vineyard have to do with the size of European ones
The scourge and the cage? Read Spartacus--not the Howard Fast bestseller but Louis Grassic Gibbon's classic--to learn what slavery in Rome was really like. It is not a tale for weak stomachs.
It sounds as though you secretly approve of slavery.
He could have prevented it--most of it, at least--with a commandment?
The passage was written about life in Israel, not Europe. Or do you believe the bible was written in Europe by King James?
If the Romans obeyed the Mosaic Law, it would have prevented a lot of the abuses. According to the Mosaic Law life was sacred and sexual relations were sacred.
God has commandments right now, and few obey.
Israel was unable to even consistently obey the commandments He gave them... Maybe He felt they couldn't handle it at the time.
What if God gives eternal life to everyone who lived as a slave? Would that be fair to you?
Part of Speech: feminine noun
Biblical Usage:
1) light
a) light of day
b) light of heavenly luminaries (moon, sun, stars)
c) day-break, dawn, morning light
d) daylight
e) lightning
f) light of lamp
g) light of life
h) light of prosperity
i) light of instruction
j) light of face (fig.)
k) Jehovah as Israel's light
Photosynthesis for Kids
Going by the simplest possible definition, photosynthesis is the process by which plants convert the carbon dioxide into their food, with the help of the energy derived from the Sun. The most essential components of this process include direct sunlight, water, carbon dioxide and chlorophyll. Other then the plants, even some algae and bacteria species resort to this process in order to generate food. That, however, doesn't mean that only these plants and organisms benefit from this process. Various other living beings, including humans are either direct or indirect beneficiaries of the process of photosynthesis.
The passage was translated in the King James version by Englishmen who were familiar with the fields and vineyards of their own time, and knew nothing about Israel. It was not the first translation: that would be the Vulgate, attributed to St. Jerome, which appeared in the fourth century. By the time the Vulgate translation appeared there had been no Jewish presence in Palestine for over two hundred years, and thus no Jewish vineyards.
How big were those Jewish vineyards, when they existed? Estimates for the population of Jerusalem in King Solomon's time vary around a mean of about 5,000. Estimates of the population of his consolidated kingdom of Israel also vary, with the highest figure suggested being around 100,000. How big do you think the fields and vineyards of Israel were?
Eagerly awaiting the next installment of100% organic fertilizer, I remain
What, Mr. Omnipotent couldn't even deal with his fractious children? Some God!
EDIT TO ADD: I read your earlier posts. It seems you do indeed approve of slavery, or at least see nothing wrong with it. Amazing what slimy things crawl one sometimes finds crawling out from under the stones one upturns here on ATS.
You mean the Hebrew word sa*dheh', which means field?
Hebrew wives had stature and responsibility.
Oh, and Hebrew women at times were prophetesses.
You keep getting further and further away from the topic. Remind me to never let you drive. You have a hard time staying on the road.
Free will. Think about it.
I myself am a slave.
Our civilizations have grown because of slave labor. The technology we have, the jewelry we wear was probably handled by slaves at some point in history.
So exactly what are you personally doing about the slavery that exists today?
Originally posted by WfknSmth
Im a little confused... what exactly is your question?
Then we have this rotten compromise called "Theistic evolution".
Its like an approach towards modern science by the catholic church and other religious groups, trying not to look too out of touch imo.
Theistic evolution makes the least sense to me: The allmighty spacegod created everything perfect but nature is still improving it.
This concept is both, rejecting science AND its not even supported by the bible, more specifically, it opposes the central biblical teachings.
Fundamentalists call it blasphemy, Scientists call it just more BS.
Creation and Evolution are too divergent to find a compromise.
My post might come across like a rant but thats not what Im trying to do here.
My take is you just have to choose one:
Either pick Science with its empirical methods
OR pick Religion and just believe in whatever you want to believe.
PS: Jesus would probably say: "What is this bible-thingy you are talking about?"
You tried this before with MrXYZ. Get lost.
Isaiah 49:14; Isaiah 49:15 (Darby Translation) Darby Translation (DARBY) Isaiah 49:14 14But Zion said, Jehovah hath forsaken me, and the Lord hath forgotten me. 15Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? Even these forget, but I will not forget thee. Darby Translation (DARBY) Public Domain
Originally posted by lifeform11
the "it can only be one or the other" mentality is what holds people back.
also assuming its only those who believe in the bible that think it is possible is wrong to.
it is not about picking one side or the other to me, it is about finding out the truth. by limiting the truth into a war of its one or the other is not going to lead to the truth.
evolution is a fact, which does not conflict with the creation theory, its just that people think it does and must go to war to prove their right and everybody else is wrong.
it boils down to possibilities to me, if we do not have answers to certain things and are still looking for them to be proved, but we disregard possibilities that are possible its just we do not want to believe it, then we could of eliminated a path that would of led to the truth through what we believe and not because it is.
if it is possible a creator put basic lifeforms on this planet and else where with the purpose of evolving into it's environment, then it cannot be discounted. of course beliefs will always get in the way of such things and people will disregard things simply because they do not believe it or do believe it, but to me finding the truth about anything means including all possibilities untill they can be eliminated through proof, and i do not mean theories, i mean proof, like we see with evolution.
seriously i do not get the war with this all the time. evolution does not mean there is not a creator, and if there is a creator does not mean evolution has to be wrong.
are you seeking being right or what is? if it is what is, then all possibilities must be included untill they can be eliminated.
Originally posted by lifeform11:
the "it can only be one or the other" mentality is what holds people back.
[...]
...evolution is a fact, which does not conflict with the creation theory.
Originally posted by lifeform11:
it is not about picking one side or the other to me, it is about finding out the truth. by limiting the truth into a war of its one or the other is not going to lead to the truth.
[...]
to me finding the truth about anything means including all possibilities untill they can be eliminated through proof
So please PROVE me wrong:
1) Linguisticically
2) Scientifically
3) Scripturally.
I await your answer – hopefully you will not wiggle out of this. If you can't debunk these three points, please by all means, ask around – check with ur fellow evolution believers maybe they can help you.
Please no mumbo-jumbo nonsense.
Even though the Bible is NOT a scientific book it is in full agreement and compatible with true science.
That is, the Creation account is compatible with true scientific facts!
Side note:
Here's another clue why your understanding of the Genesis account is wrong. The Hebrew word for "created" and "made". What's the difference?
bara'
1) to create, shape, form
a) (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)
1) of heaven and earth
2) of individual man
3) of new conditions and circumstances
4) of transformations
b) (Niphal) to be created
1) of heaven and earth
2) of birth
3) of something new
4) of miracles
Personal comments and preaching are off topic.
Please address the topics in the opening post.
Wow...um...
A scientific theory hinges on empirical findings, and remains subject to falsification if new evidence is presented. That is, no theory is ever considered certain.
One reason why mathematics enjoys special esteem, above all other sciences, is that its laws are absolutely certain and indisputable, while those of other sciences are to some extent debatable and in constant danger of being overthrown by newly discovered facts. —Albert Einstein[1]
Well, evolution could also be the result of Thor's hangover vomit from his wild night at the mead hall....but that doesn't mean that it's anywhere near probable or reasonable to think that.