N. Korea Crisis - Updated as News come to hand

So apparently according to a not-so-trusty source, the UK has been asked by the US to deploy nuclear subs in the Yellow Sea to assist the US and South Korea in case things go bad.

I guess we won't have any confirmation/deny unless something goes down.... or we might now months from now.

If this is true, the US probably think things could really go down.

(I post this only because it wouldn't be a big surprise really)

Originally posted by notsoperfect

The firing of nuclear weapons requires the authorization of the president before they can proceed, but he is unable to launch on his own, not without the concurrence of a cabinet level official to verify his codes.

reply to post by Morgil

 

What makes you think that Kim Jong IL will not consult his own military staffs when he has to push the button?

Your presumption is totally incorrect and based on false speculation.

The wide spread concept that he is a total lunatic is false. You are talking within your own matrix you are living inside of it which was created by someone else.

The only way out of the falsehood is to use your own rational mind.

Trust me, I am rational, I believe you, however, are showing yourself to be the total opposite.

I never said he was a lunatic, quite the contrary, he is very intelligent in the manner in which he has orchestrated his regime over the years.

What I am saying is that he would not need to have someone else to authenticate for him in the event of a nuclear launch. That is the whole ethos of a dictatorship, the Leader dictates policy and can make unilateral decisions.

If you are not able to process anything I have said without mis-appropriating it to suit your own agenda then I suggest we agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
So apparently according to a not-so-trusty source, the UK has been asked by the US to deploy nuclear subs in the Yellow Sea to assist the US and South Korea in case things go bad.

I guess we won't have any confirmation/deny unless something goes down.... or we might now months from now.

If this is true, the US probably think things could really go down.

(I post this only because it wouldn't be a big surprise really)

edit on 26-11-2010 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

What is this source? are you able to divulge it? That would be a very interesting development if true. I have not heard anything about the UK subs being re-directed.

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by thecinic

 

There is nothing wrong with being a dreamer, especially when it comes to peace, and if I believed for one second our governments agenda was purely motivated by peace I would be fully for it, but sadly I don't think it is. One more war won't solve anything, because there will always be another war after it. We try to impose our ways on other people and they don't buy it. You may argue that that the world is more at peace than it was 100 years ago and yes, more countries are falling in line, but it's all about power, not peace, even if those in power truly believe it is about peace.

edit on 26/11/10 by woogleuk because: (no reason given)

Well how about one more war with korea so the people in north korea starving and suffering from their ass holedictator ill can be free... I for one would say yes to the future of them children in north korea to be atleast free from their social class a social class they can never be out of a social class where if the girl you love is lower then you you can not marry... I hate war but i hate dictators who force their people into bondage more... WAR TO ILL WAR TO ILL WAR TO ILL I SAY!!!!!!

reply to post by thecinic


Yes, lets have another war to free the opressed people of the north and promote 'democracy' and 'freedom'.
The west is so efficient at it, proven by recent successes in Iraq and Afghanistan...

/sarcasm

Surely you jest sir...

Originally posted by noahproductions
Okay, for people who love this.
I've made a frameset with the possibility to display 4 live webcams in Seoul at the same time, while you can choose a lot of different camera's.
You can visit my page here:
Click here for my Earth Watching website
Stay tuned,
enjoy................

Does anyone else find this kind of morbid? I had to question myself why I would want to watch this unfold in 3D. It was a sad reality of things to come, didn't feel right. Slight OT. No offense Noah

WASHINGTON, Nov. 26 (Yonhap) -- The United States insisted Friday that the upcoming joint military drills with South Korea in the Yellow Sea are not aimed at China, but intended to deter North Korean aggression.

Source

reply to post by thecinic


I agree, the people in NK are suffering, but we choose war with them, it will be a lot more bloody than you care to admitt, their entire nation is built for war. Every nation who participates in a war will suffer heavy losses, imagine Japan in c1940, kamikazee pilots who died for the cause.

An all out nuclear conflict would be the quickest way to solve this one, kill them all now, save lives later.

No, thats just wrong, wait for the transistion of power and hope li'l kimmies son knows right from wrong, everyones saying he's being influenced by western culture, it might turn out for the best.

What I am saying is that he would not need to have someone else to authenticate for him in the event of a nuclear launch. That is the whole ethos of a dictatorship, the Leader dictates policy and can make unilateral decisions.

reply to post by Morgil


On the contrary, his information to make any decision comes totally from his staffs. He will certainly collect all the necessary information and make decisions. And unfortunately to you, this process is universal in any countries or organizations, parliamentry or otherwise.

So "flexing muscle" or "definance" has nothing to do with the serious issues of survival.

reply to post by Morgil


I wonder how the exercises will "deter" North Korea's aggression, when most signs point to the exercises causing more "aggression" by having them take place. Sounds like double talk to me. They need to just keep it real and say that the exercise isn't a show of force to China, but to North Korea...

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Their aim is to secure Kim Jong Il position as the next leader. It's stupid but that's how they roll.

North Korea being stupid again...

US-ROK joint maritime exercise bring Korean peninsula to brink of war.

Yeah yeah.

Start shooting missiles then we'll believe you. Until then, STFU.

edit on 25-11-2010 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

The truth is that we have no idea what their goal was. Pundits have *supposed* that the goal is to promote Kim Jong Un's position in the hierarchy, but most of those guys are just paid propagandists.

Originally posted by notsoperfect

What I am saying is that he would not need to have someone else to authenticate for him in the event of a nuclear launch. That is the whole ethos of a dictatorship, the Leader dictates policy and can make unilateral decisions.

reply to post by Morgil

 

On the contrary, his information to make any decision comes totally from his staffs. He will certainly collect all the necessary information and make decisions. And unfortunately to you, this process is universal in any countries or organizations, parliamentry or otherwise.

So "flexing muscle" or "definance" has nothing to do with the serious issues of survival.

OK, I understand where you are coming from, but the basic point I am trying to get across to you is this:

Other nuclear powers > Head of state needs concurrence from other party/person for nuclear launch
NK Leader > Can consult but ultimately can decide on his own without approval from others.

Originally posted by mtnshredder

Originally posted by noahproductions
Okay, for people who love this.
I've made a frameset with the possibility to display 4 live webcams in Seoul at the same time, while you can choose a lot of different camera's.
You can visit my page here:
Click here for my Earth Watching website
Stay tuned,
enjoy................

Does anyone else find this kind of morbid? I had to question myself why I would want to watch this unfold in 3D. It was a sad reality of things to come, didn't feel right. Slight OT. No offense Noah

I posted this to see with your own eyes what is happening instead of just believing anything you hear.
That's what my Earth Watching pages are for..!!!
It's just a little part of a complete observatory.

Originally posted by Nomad451
I'm hoping someone can answer my question.

Lets just say that the US aircraft carrier arrives on schedule this Sunday despite warnings from China to not go ahead with any further military drills and provocations, and amid the drills something happens and North Korea conduct more attacks on the South.

We can safely say that the US and South Korea will retaliate immediately against the North. My concern here is what will China then do? Especially after directly warning against any further actions that could provoke war.

Will China sit idly by and watch as US and S. Korea bomb the North? If they do sit idly by, do you think it is possible the North could feel backed into a corner and do the unthinkable, airblast a nuke over the south? Would they be mad enough to do this anyway?

My real concern is China. The the current economic tensions between China and the US... Now with this fiasco thrown into the mix I would very much like to know what ATS members think China might do in the event of a horrific scenario where full blown war erupts on the korean peninsula involving N Korea, S Korea and the US.

Thanks in advance!

China knows what side of the bread the butter is on. They will probably tolerate the US and ROK conducting limited raids against DPRK, but I doubt they would sanction anything more.

However you forget that DPRK has the bomb. This is their wildcard and nobody in the region wants to see that come into play. China especially will make it clear to the US and ROK that any action must be both limited and couched as a reaction to provocation.

Originally posted by majesticgent
reply to post by Morgil

 

I wonder how the exercises will "deter" North Korea's aggression, when most signs point to the exercises causing more "aggression" by having them take place. Sounds like double talk to me. They need to just keep it real and say that the exercise isn't a show of force to China, but to North Korea...

I know, it is the usual rhetoric, it seems they intend to scare off the scary guy with a stick, by waving a bigger stick at him.

I wonder how the exercises will "deter" North Korea's aggression, when most signs point to the exercises causing more "aggression" by having them take place. Sounds like double talk to me. They need to just keep it real and say that the exercise isn't a show of force to China, but to North Korea...

reply to post by majesticgent


It won't. I want them to stop the exercise. South Korea has elected a President who do not have the guts.

He should tell both the US and UK to stop and just go home.

And tell them we will call you if needed.

Noah, I understand and you did nothing wrong. It was just a reality check in my own mind, when clicking on the link. It felt like tuning into a NYC cam focused on the Twin Towers before they were hit. Didn't post to offend you, just so you know. Just an observation of the sad state of current events and just how crazy things really are globally.

Originally posted by notsoperfect

I wonder how the exercises will "deter" North Korea's aggression, when most signs point to the exercises causing more "aggression" by having them take place. Sounds like double talk to me. They need to just keep it real and say that the exercise isn't a show of force to China, but to North Korea...

reply to post by majesticgent

 

It won't. I want them to stop the exercise. South Korea has elected a President who do not have the guts.

He should tell both the US and UK to stop and just go home.

And tell them we will call you if needed.

Unfortunately the SK president does not have that power.

This is a military issue and the USA is in charge of all S. Korean military forces in wartime.
There was talk of handing back power in 2012 but I don't know if that will be pushed back in light of these latest events or not.

www.defense.gov...

I just recently found the website for the KCNA (Korean Central News Agency) for NK. I've gotta say some of the articles are quite.. unique to say the least like this one.

Did find this article concerning the current situation over there.

Panmunjom Mission of KPA Sends Notice to U.S. Forces Side

Pyongyang, November 25 (KCNA) -- As already reported, the south Korean puppet war-like forces Tuesday committed another grave military provocation such as firing shells into the territorial waters of the DPRK side in the West Sea of Korea. The revolutionary armed forces of the DPRK took a prompt and resolute physical counter-action against the provocateurs who dared fire even shells into the territorial waters of the DPRK side while staging the maneuvers for a war of aggression against it codenamed Hoguk. This once again confirmed the unshakable stand of the army of the DPRK not to allow even in the least anyone to encroach upon its inviolable territorial waters.

The Korean People's Army will deal without hesitation the second and third strong physical retaliatory blow if the south Korean puppet warmongers commit another reckless military provocation out of all reason.

So, if the article above is to be believed as written, then if the US/SK go about their scheduled events, NK is going to predictably follow through with more attacks? I can see why China wouldn't want the military exercises to go through but maybe not because of the exercises being a threat to China itself. I think China may know that NK is not one to back down when they have the world's attention by the short hairs like they do now.

China may be trying to warn the US (of NK's determination to save face) by coming across as dissenting as they are towards us because they can't straight up warn us about NK or risk the confidence of NK as a stable ally. Kim may believe right now that China has his back but with a devil-may-care attitude and could very well bite the hand that feeds if he believes for a second that China has lost confidence in NK's government.

I would bet that any mobilization of Chinese forces to the NK boarder, while veiled as support for NK troops, would actually be there to mitigate the effects of a massive flood of refugees from NK. If I were China ,the last thing I would want is war popping back up on the Korean Peninsula which would make me have to divert resources to something I'd be obligated to participate in.

Can consult but ultimately can decide on his own without approval from others.

reply to post by Morgil


Who do you mean by "others"?

He has military staffs and many of them. Some of them may reject the decision of the leader. So, most of the time, the decision the leader makes is the same as the consensus of the military staffs.

He really doesn't have a whole lot of choice. And the military staffs are experienced warriors who knows that they are doing.

What is wrong in this process?

You think he is a fool making decisions against his own staffs consensus? This discussion boils down to a boredom.

You have to abandon your faulty presumptions first and be rational.