N. Korea Crisis - Updated as News come to hand

reply to post by jazz10


AFAIK Thermobaric artillery shells replicate the sort of damage that we have seen on the island. Off-course there is no proof of that at the moment but i think it's likely. Before anyone says "but North Korea can't possibly have thermobaric weaponry" i think their military capabilities are often down-played or, simply, a lot of it is hidden.

Bearing in mind there was a report a few years back that NK had successfully built and tested it's first UAV i think it's fair to say they have a bit more than we think.

EDIT - Just found this article supporting my theory.

Off course if you subscribe to the opinion that US/SK 'staged' the attacks (which i personnaly don't) then South Korean officials could easily be lying.

South thwarts even bigger attack

Military says strike by howitzers took out equipment

North Korea had planned to fire more shells than the roughly 170 rounds that fell on Yeonpyeong Island and the waters around it, but a counterattack by South Korea damaged their equipment, South Korean military officials said yesterday.

The South, however, did not describe the extent of the damage, adding to the list of unanswered questions over the first inland skirmish between the two Koreas since the Korean War.

The attack by the North left two marines and two civilians dead. “After the North Korean military fired roughly 150 rounds in the first 12 minutes of the attack, they prepared for a bigger attack but were unable to do so once our military retaliated with K9 howitzers,” said a South Korean military official. Another 20 rounds were fired after the initial attack.

The K9 is a South Korean self-propelled howitzer developed for the South Korean military by Samsung Techwin. The weapon can fire six 155-millimeter rounds per minute. “Because the K9 is very accurate, the North Korean military bases were probably reduced to rubble,” said the official. South Korean Minister of National Defense Kim Tae-young said during a hearing at the National Assembly’s Defense Committee yesterday that images of the North Korean coastline were hard to obtain “because of the clouds in that direction.” The military could not confirm how much damage had been done by the South’s retaliatory response. The defense minister said military officials were working to determine the extent of the damage.

More questions were lobbed at Kim yesterday, with lawmakers demanding to know why the South Korean military had taken 13 minutes to start firing back after the North initiated firing at 2:34 p.m. “According to our military tactics, I believe we did very well if we responded in 13 minutes,” said Kim after lawmakers accused the South Korean military of being slow to respond. The defense minister said the soldiers had to take shelter during the first attacks and rotating the guns in the direction of the attack took time, said Kim. “To fire while you’re on the receiving end is like committing suicide,” said one South Korean military official.

The minister also explained that the North’s attack was unrelated to the joint Hoguk exercise between South Korea and the U.S. and that North Korea had bombarded the island because of monthly shooting exercises near the disputed maritime border between the two Koreas. “We are indeed in the middle of Hoguk exercises but the training that took place near Yeonpyeong Island was not part of the Hoguk exercises, but monthly shooting exercises,” said Kim.

When asked if any of the South Korean rounds fired during the exercise had crossed the border accidentally, triggering the attack, Kim said the South Korean military prepares “with caution” and keeps their firing “4 to 5 kilometers [2.5 to 3.1 miles] away from the Northern Limit Line.” North Korea had sent statements before the attack on Tuesday, warning South Korea to halt the Hoguk exercises. Kim said that North Korea had complained about the routine firing exercises in the past, but it was the first time for them to have acted on it.

In a report turned into the Defense Committee of the National Assembly yesterday, the Defense Ministry confirmed that North Korea had fired roughly 170 rounds toward Yeonpyeong Island. “Around 80 rounds landed on the island, while about 90 rounds landed in the waters surrounding the island,” the report said. The South Korean military fired 80 rounds from K9 howitzers. The Defense Ministry also said troops have been “status ready” for firing since the attack, with five fighter jets on standby.

Link

Interesting, bits of information are finally starting to trickle through. Whether it's all true is suspect but for now it's all we have. For a useful map of the incident see -

^
^
^

That's a huge development. Maybe it's own thread?..

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
^
^
^

That's a huge development. Maybe it's own thread?..

It might be misleading but there has been no additional attack. The article was just saying NK could have attacked more if SK had not responded timely on the 23rd.

Feel free to steal I gotta get some work done!

More stupidity from the White House...

U.S. urges China to send a clear signal to N. Korea regarding its provocative acts (DPA)

What about you understand what China is trying to tell you? China says they won't do squat! You think signing a new economic treaty with North Korea DURING THIS WHOLE THING HAPPENING wasn't clear enough? Are you high?

UN drafting response to North Korea shelling of South Korea island (Israel Radio)

I bet North Korea is afraid...


BTW I was reading some early 1990s news today and Kim Jong Il was named Kim CHONG Il back then... he changed his name it seems....

And remember the first light water reactor that the US provided them? Yeah you know what the deal was? I just read the South Korean news about it from August 1996, about a month before it was to be built... the plant was supposed to be in total control by the KONE, or Korean Organization for Nuclear Energy... with NO NORTH KOREA INVOLVEMENT AT ALL... yeah how that turned out?

And from reading the newswire from North Korea/South Korea in the early 1990s, it just showed me how North Korea has always been the same... ``The South president is traitor``... ``The courageous North again repelled a provocation from the capitalist mad dogs``... ect... They haven't changed their propaganda in the last 20 years... total fail.

reply to post by Regensturm



I think the question is what US doctrine is..NK is a nuclear power with (intel suggests) first strike capability. NK proved this with their sattelite launch awhile back. When they can put a sattelite into LEO, they're making a statement that they can reach out and touch US interests widely, including at home. Conventional means of war is therefore out of the question, and I believe a tactical nuclear response is as well....and I'm pretty sure both sides are aware of this. Escalation with NBC weapons is almost guaranteed in a conventional setting.

NK presents a strategic threat to the US and allies in the region, and will be dealt with strategically should war ever be the only option...there is NO alternative. The 'glass parking lot' option is the ONLY option, and I would suggest this has been communicated to NK in no uncertain terms at an official level. It is the doctrine of MAD...both sides pay a heavy price.

The deployment of PAC-3 in the South and at sea makes a first strike from NK ...questionable, if the system really does work. There CAN BE no response, that MUST be the US doctrine.

NK is in a strong (but dangerous) position here...it HAS to be leadership politics, unless Jong-un is a raving lunatic. I suspect the political objective has been achieved and nothing more will come of this 'crisis'.

The UN having no clue, as always...

UN special rapporteur for human rights to DPRK: Despite this week's "military actions" multilat meetings involving N. Korea should go on.

Really? We should continue meetings with them? Are you insane?

The SKorean president just appointed the new defense minister.

ROK's new defense minister is Presidential security adviser Lee Hee-Won

So far I haven't found any info on him...

Lee Hee Won is a former army general, who served as deputy commander of U.S. and South Korea forces between 2005 and 2006,

But no words on whether he's an extremist or not...

Doom over!

Seoul city gov't: "citizens have returned to normal life and Seoul's economy also has been back to normal."

Or so they say.

N.Korea warns of more strikes as US carrier heads in

If nothing happens by Dec.3 nothing will happen till the next North Korean provocation.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Only other article on the guy I could find was one from the 16th of the month. It's called:
'Army should develop smart power'

“The ROK Army is facing a new environment that requires a new paradigm of strategy,” Lee, former deputy commander of the ROK-U.S. Combined Forces Command, said in a keynote speech at the 2010 Army Policy Forum at the War Memorial of Korea in Yongsan, Seoul.
“Against that backdrop, the Army should make efforts to combine hard and soft power. These efforts will help the Army to build a ‘smart, future-oriented’ structure, as well as create a synergy effect to better respond to situations both in peacetime and wartime,” he said.

It'll be interesting to see if any of his ideas are going to be touched upon during this recent ordeal with NK.

More details on the attack...

Residents desert remote S.Korean island turned war zone

"We were doing firing drills here until 2:30 pm, and right after then artillery shells started flying this way," the captain said, pointing at their anti-aircraft gun which was badly mangled in the blast.

So South Korea admits that they fired first... but not towards North Korea.

The attacks -- the first shelling of civilians since the 1950-53 Korean War -- also hit administrative offices, a police station and several homes, knocked out electricity to half the population and started forest fires.

"Thank God the shells didn't reach the pre-school and elementary school," where children were studying at the time, said coastguard Jo Young-Hyun.

Yep, if it had hit a school, we would be marching in North Korea right now... or some generals/politicians would be kicked out of office real fast.

S. Korea earmarks 1.4 tln won for major arms purchase
More weapons uh...

It seems that N.k. is making trouble again ,i am just confused about their aim for this.

Their aim is to secure Kim Jong Il position as the next leader. It's stupid but that's how they roll.

North Korea being stupid again...

US-ROK joint maritime exercise bring Korean peninsula to brink of war.

Yeah yeah. Start shooting missiles then we'll believe you. Until then, STFU.

If people from this thread is not reading the other thread of which I posted, there is urgent news!

Translate this page through google if you cannot read Chinese!!!!! [Even if we have to go back to middle age we must sink U.S. Aircraft Carrier] This was posted in August though, but we do not know everything! Maybe it's nothing, but I think something is up, and it's very disturbing! We need to prepare, and fast!

Read this!!!!!!

Originally posted by Vitchilo
More details on the attack...

Residents desert remote S.Korean island turned war zone

"We were doing firing DRILLS here until 2:30 pm, and right after then artillery shells started flying this way," the captain said, pointing at their anti-aircraft gun which was badly mangled in the blast.

So South Korea admits that they fired first... but not towards North Korea.

Only drills, that is usually just training the gun on different co-ordinates and running through various sequences, no trigger pulled or live fire. So this doesn't show they fired first.

**never mind just re-read it, seems they did fire live rounds, my mistake**

Ummm the drills had been announced to North Korea weeks in adavance.

reply to post by kyrebelyell2004


Pure bollocks. Motive? WWIII? A massive nuclear retalliation? The chinese are masters of strategy, and such an act would be...laughable.

What is the source you cite, some blog post?

Well I think we are in a position of wait and see right now. Like another Author said a few posts up, if nothing happens by dec. 3rd I think we will just wait and see. I don't really see the south making and attacks now from some of the sketchy info I am reading here on ATS, good looking out to the guys and gals providing the decent links it seems perhaps the south hit their targets in their response to the North's attack and shut their assault down prematurely. Yet the disheartening aspect of this is 4 people died over a very stupid act. I do not think thou North Korea, should get away with this action, yet at the same time having a full blown war over it may not be the right answer either, yet what the north did was an act of war, in my opinion, I am not sure if I respect how the south dealt with this or if I am thinking not enough, it could have been handled better I think and I am thankful for not having to be in that position to decide. If the south gave North Korea a pass on this one, I think its their last and final one. This pretty much raps up this story. I would be surprised in South Korea assaults North Korea in the next few days in a delayed retaliation if they have not already, North Korea may make another strike at the South before the US naval forces get into the theater once the US naval pieces arrive I do not see North Korea acting like a pitt bull, to be frank I think the North Koreans understand how far they can push their luck and now my gut is telling me they will become passive for awhile.. Once again I think this was a move to give the son some credit with the people he will soon rule. Basically North Korea just murdered people and got away with it. For some respect. Sounds Gangsta...

Since no one has really expressed it, RIP to the war victims of this attacks.. Until some new info I am just gonna lurk this thread, I think speculation is all we can go on now until lots wagging the dog going on.

I have been seeing this article RT frequently on Twitter. I'm not sure about the source, but I'd figured I'd post it anyway. It was just a headline for the longest and the article is just now appearing in full. At first I thought it was something, but it appears as if it's just more saber rattling rhetoric out of North Korea; Let's hope so...


(URGENT) N. Korea says it is 'ready to annihilate' S. Korea's stronghold

More of somewhat same comments, though not as strong--albeit via MSM/western source:

NKorea warns of "brink of war"

YEONPYEONG ISLAND, South Korea – North Korea warned Friday that planned U.S.-South Korean military drills are pushing the peninsula to the brink of war as a U.S. military commander headed to an island devastated this week by a North Korean artillery barrage.

I am in agreement with other posters that we will know how serious this is when then training is complete in early December

In regards to the Carrier group being sent in does anybody know where exactly the USS George Washington is coming from and where exactly in the Yellow sea it's supposedly going to be? I have a feeling if it goes into that disputed zone we may have a big problem.