N. Korea Crisis - Updated as News come to hand

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
reply to post by Resurrectio

 

Please research the history of martial law in South Korea. If you think it's all dances around the maypole there, you have your head somewhere that the sun doesn't shine.

If you don't want to do any research, or you don't want to broadcast any "bad news" here's the gist of it: Every few years there is a hardline military coup, martial law is declared, there is brutal repression of any opposition, summary executions, and then eventually control is handed back to a "civilian" government, usually to a president who was one of the main actors in the coup.

Don't be proud of ignorance. Especially when your lies can be called out with a simple reference to the Wikipedia.

Lies?? Are you mistaking my post for someone elses? Your post here does not even come close to addressing ANYTHING I was refering to in my post.

Maybe you should sharpen up your comprehension skills... My post was dealing with puppet Govts.... It had nothing to do with the crap you just droned on about.

Either you have a very low comprehension level, or you were going to crow bar in your anti-SK information one way or another, and I was simply a scape goat.

Do you not have the ability to decipher the difference between a quote and my post? Either way... you are deficient in some form of comprehension.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


I am quite familiar with the Phoenix Program. I am also quite familiar with the fact that North Vietnam invaded South Vietnam after we had withdrawn and the US Congress passed legislation forbidding us from intervening. Prior to that we had won, the bombing of the North forced them to the negotiataing table and the war ended with the Paris peace talks. Had the democratic US congress not passed the non intervention legislation, the North would have never had the balls to invade the South. If Watergate hadn't happened, it wouldn't of mattered if the legislation was passed or not. Nixon would not have let the South fall, legally or not.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


I'm in no way trying to call you names (sorry if it came across like that), but some of your last posts have seemed to be pulled out of the air to fit into the situation as you see it.

I realize that you've contributed a tremendous amount to the thread but on the topic of this quote:

"Artillery exchanges happen fairly regularly. I believe the last big one was in 2003. "

And this:

"Yeah, they lobbed a few shells into the ocean and then made the "shame shame" motion with their finger."

You say these without providing any source of information to their validity. I did do some extensive searching through Google News (longer than I feel I should have) on finding sources to back up both of your quotes but I've yet to find any. I would just like to find some source that will back up what you've stated.

I searched for any information regarding a South Korean counter-attack here and could not find anything relating to South Korea firing artillery into North Korea (land or sea). In fact it seems that the South didn't even conduct a counter-attack on the North according to this source:

In lieu of a counter-attack on the North, the South and the US settled yesterday on conducting joint defence drills to highlight their unity and resolve without triggering retaliation.

I've also yet to find where, in recent times (

Calm down people.

The villages would have been emptied voluntarily, simply because of the risks to them. Would you stay in a village on a border facing an enemy?
Even if the enemy doesn't invade, that border will become a war-zone with both sides firing at each other, and those villages WOULD be hit.
I wouldn't stay there, I'd be heading out to stay with family in the southern-most areas.

As for the power NK wields; it is widely know that they have a LOT of weaponry directly aimed at Seoul. This is not simply conjecture or propaganda, this has been supported by external governments who have seen the evidence for it. This is their insurance policy and is the only thing that will likely prevent SK and allies from actively taking out NK.

reply to post by mistafaz


It has been reported throughout that there has not been artillery shelling by either North or South Korea since the unofficial end of the Korean War. Of course, technically they are still at war, but there has been no firing of heavy artillery in that time.
There have been shots fired across the border previously, and the sinking of the Cheonan.

Also, it was reported that the recent exchange took approximately one hour. NK fired on the island. SK launched fighters and attacked military positions of NK. Then it ended.

There has not been much reporting on the SK defensive action. The only report I saw mentioned that they had fought back firing on NK positions, but that there were no reports from NK of casualties of deaths (kind of expected).

Originally posted by Resurrectio

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
reply to post by Resurrectio

 

Please research the history of martial law in South Korea. If you think it's all dances around the maypole there, you have your head somewhere that the sun doesn't shine.

If you don't want to do any research, or you don't want to broadcast any "bad news" here's the gist of it: Every few years there is a hardline military coup, martial law is declared, there is brutal repression of any opposition, summary executions, and then eventually control is handed back to a "civilian" government, usually to a president who was one of the main actors in the coup.

Don't be proud of ignorance. Especially when your lies can be called out with a simple reference to the Wikipedia.

Lies?? Are you mistaking my post for someone elses? Your post here does not even come close to addressing ANYTHING I was refering to in my post.

Maybe you should sharpen up your comprehension skills... My post was dealing with puppet Govts.... It had nothing to do with the crap you just droned on about.

Either you have a very low comprehension level, or you were going to crow bar in your anti-SK information one way or another, and I was simply a scape goat.

Do you not have the ability to decipher the difference between a quote and my post? Either way... you are deficient in some form of comprehension.

Yeah, lies.

You claimed that South Korea isn't a puppet, I said it is. If you don't think it is, you clearly haven't read anything about the history of South Korea since the armistice.

I invite you to read about it a bit, as I said, Wikipedia is a great site and has loads of citations. If you don't care to learn anything that might change your mind, I can understand ;-) but that doesn't excuse your ignorance, just allows you to ignore it.

Originally posted by mistafaz
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

I'm in no way trying to call you names (sorry if it came across like that), but some of your last posts have seemed to be pulled out of the air to fit into the situation as you see it.

I realize that you've contributed a tremendous amount to the thread but on the topic of this quote:

"Artillery exchanges happen fairly regularly. I believe the last big one was in 2003. "

And this:

"Yeah, they lobbed a few shells into the ocean and then made the "shame shame" motion with their finger."

You say these without providing any source of information to their validity. I did do some extensive searching through Google News (longer than I feel I should have) on finding sources to back up both of your quotes but I've yet to find any. I would just like to find some source that will back up what you've stated.

I searched for any information regarding a South Korean counter-attack here and could not find anything relating to South Korea firing artillery into North Korea (land or sea). In fact it seems that the South didn't even conduct a counter-attack on the North according to this source:

In lieu of a counter-attack on the North, the South and the US settled yesterday on conducting joint defence drills to highlight their unity and resolve without triggering retaliation.

I've also yet to find where, in recent times (

Originally posted by detachedindividual
As for the power NK wields; it is widely know that they have a LOT of weaponry directly aimed at Seoul. This is not simply conjecture or propaganda, this has been supported by external governments who have seen the evidence for it. This is their insurance policy and is the only thing that will likely prevent SK and allies from actively taking out NK.

Is this knowledge that has been gathered by the same people who so clearly stated that Iraq had stockpiles of WMD's??

Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by mistafaz

 

It has been reported throughout that there has not been artillery shelling by either North or South Korea since the unofficial end of the Korean War. Of course, technically they are still at war, but there has been no firing of heavy artillery in that time.
There have been shots fired across the border previously, and the sinking of the Cheonan.

Also, it was reported that the recent exchange took approximately one hour. NK fired on the island. SK launched fighters and attacked military positions of NK. Then it ended.

There has not been much reporting on the SK defensive action. The only report I saw mentioned that they had fought back firing on NK positions, but that there were no reports from NK of casualties of deaths (kind of expected).

What would you call the naval battles? Are they not naval artillery?

Jeez, I didn't think it made a hell of a lot of difference what platform you mounted the damn artillery on.

Anyway, this incident is notable *to me* because it is the first major attack by North Korea that caused major damage to *CIVILIAN* targets.

I would have expected reports from the South if they managed to hit anything, as they always report those successes, especially when responding to an attack. It's an asian thing, they have to save face if possible.

reply to post by detachedindividual



How do you know it's a voluntary thing? Do you have some sort of inside knowledge that the rest of us lack?

Originally posted by DarthPhobos

Originally posted by detachedindividual
As for the power NK wields; it is widely know that they have a LOT of weaponry directly aimed at Seoul. This is not simply conjecture or propaganda, this has been supported by external governments who have seen the evidence for it. This is their insurance policy and is the only thing that will likely prevent SK and allies from actively taking out NK.

Is this knowledge that has been gathered by the same people who so clearly stated that Iraq had stockpiles of WMD's??

edit on 24-11-2010 by DarthPhobos because: (no reason given)

Actually you can see it for yourself if you wish. Starting here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Gazmeister

Possible? maybe? But we all know it's unlikely. People jumping to the conclusion that it was SK/US behind it when there is absolutely no evidence to suggest it was, that is not being "reasonable". So just who exactly is being unreasonble? And yes, liberal or tin foil hat wearers are exactly the type of people who come out with this sort of thing.

You're jumping to the conclusion N Korea was at fault.

This type of stale nationalism dogma is re-cycled rhetoric that jumped to conclusions about the Gulf of Tonkin happening as US party leaders claimed, saddam had WMDs, bin landen, still un-charged, was behind 9/11, Iraqi troops played soccer with babies yanked from incubators.. all that other.. yawn.. fake news that just so happened to fit US party leaders war / fear fear fear agenda.

Based on the GOP & DNCs historic lack of credibility when it comes to furthering their war / empire agendas.. it's entirely reasonable to question every last detail they sell as "truth".. or haven't you been lied too and played for a sucker enough yet? still under the impression your dear leaders are honest brokers, so full of virtue that like George Washington.. they cannot tell a lie.. lmao

Apparently this "Seoul presidential spokesman" is a "liberal", so called.. admitting NK was provoked. N Korea sent several warnings that were apparently ignored.. a definition of "Provoke": 2. Stimulate or incite (someone) to do or feel something, esp. by arousing anger in them.

What would the US military do if they felt threatened & repeated warnings were ignored?.. take a look at Baghdad & Abu Ghraib.

North Korea says South Korea fired first
www.skynews.com.au...

The North began shelling after sending several messages protesting about South Korean naval, air force and army training exercises being staged close to the border, a Seoul presidential spokesman said.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


Did you even read the post? Or like most did the urge to be rude and arrogant take over... I was simply pointing out that his definition of Puppet was ignorant at best.. Maybe you 2 should colaborate.

I really don't even want to address you ...and am regretting doing so.. You are just rude and arrogant..

Originally posted by GovtFlu
reply to post by Gazmeister

 

Possible? maybe? But we all know it's unlikely. People jumping to the conclusion that it was SK/US behind it when there is absolutely no evidence to suggest it was, that is not being "reasonable". So just who exactly is being unreasonble? And yes, liberal or tin foil hat wearers are exactly the type of people who come out with this sort of thing.

You're jumping to the conclusion N Korea was at fault.

This type of stale nationalism dogma is re-cycled rhetoric that jumped to conclusions about the Gulf of Tonkin happening as US party leaders claimed, saddam had WMDs, bin landen, still un-charged, was behind 9/11, Iraqi troops played soccer with babies yanked from incubators.. all that other.. yawn.. fake news that just so happened to fit US party leaders war / fear fear fear agenda.

Based on the GOP & DNCs historic lack of credibility when it comes to furthering their war / empire agendas.. it's entirely reasonable to question every last detail they sell as "truth".. or haven't you been lied too and played for a sucker enough yet? still under the impression your dear leaders are honest brokers, so full of virtue that like George Washington.. they cannot tell a lie.. lmao

Apparently this "Seoul presidential spokesman" is a "liberal", so called.. admitting NK was provoked. N Korea sent several warnings that were apparently ignored.. a definition of "Provoke": 2. Stimulate or incite (someone) to do or feel something, esp. by arousing anger in them.

What would the US military do if they felt threatened & repeated warnings were ignored?.. take a look at Baghdad & Abu Ghraib.

North Korea says South Korea fired first
www.skynews.com.au...

The North began shelling after sending several messages protesting about South Korean naval, air force and army training exercises being staged close to the border, a Seoul presidential spokesman said.

See, the important mission for a lot of posters here is to control the narrative. Of course it's possible that either side did it, they hate the crap out of each other.

However, the nationalistic narrative that the USA and our allies are always righteous, regardless of the facts, must be maintained. Some folks are paid to encourage this narrative, and some folks just do the work for free.

I do know that the 4th POG out of Ft. Bragg has a mission to control the narrative on the internet. However, their techniques are fairly basic and their entire playbook has been posted by the FAS.

www.fas.org...

Specifically the heading "Counterpropaganda" is useful to read.

Originally posted by Resurrectio
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

Did you even read the post? Or like most did the urge to be rude and arrogant take over... I was simply pointing out that his definition of Puppet was ignorant at best.. Maybe you 2 should colaborate.

That was your contention. I am simply calling you out as uninformed on the matter, or deliberately deceptive.

South Korea is a puppet state. Who sanctioned it and set it up? How does it's government remain in power? These are a few basic questions that have very simple answers.

Seriously, pass this one up. You're in over your head.

On edit: I'm done with you for now. If you can come up with some facts that support your position, please share them with me. If you just want to waste my time, you're out of luck.

south korea didn't retaliate... sources : CNN

Originally posted by GovtFlu
North Korea says South Korea fired first
www.skynews.com.au...

From the Source:

'The South Korean enemy, despite our repeated warnings, committed reckless military provocations of firing artillery shells into our maritime territory near Yeonpyeong island beginning 1pm (1500 AEDT),' a statement from the North's military supreme command said.

"Maritime territory". That means, the SKs were dropping shells into the water. NK decided enough is enough and fired up a town.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
The North began shelling after sending several messages protesting about South Korean naval, air force and army training exercises being staged close to the border, a Seoul presidential spokesman said.

So, because the SKs were having an exercise close to the border, it was OK for the NKs to shell a town?

Sorry, the NKs have been pulling stunts like this for years. Commando raids killing civilians, firefights in the DMZ, you name it.

reply to post by GovtFlu


The truth is it doesn't matter who was or is at fault. All that matters is perception. Actuality is irrelevant. Capitalization from the event regardless of the outcome in the end justifies the strategems behind it. This isn't Hollywood where there is black and white. In reality there are only those who profit and those who do not.

Originally posted by TSAisaSCAM
south korea didn't retaliate... sources : CNN

www.cbsnews.com...

www.economist.com...

www.abc.net.au...

joongangdaily.joins.com...

South Korea did indeed return fire. CNN, as usual, has the disinformation.

don't trust anyone, draw your own conclusions.... CNN reported South Korea didn't retaliate, IMO, This is something big. North Koreans aren't idiots, just brainwashed. Brainwashed mad men. Angry at the world, it seems.