Proof that Jesus existed.

reply to post by Danbones


Okay but than that raises the issue of how many people were literate? Because many of the poorer villages only had one person who can read the Torah. The idea is that there were many farmers and school would have cost a good amount to enroll your child. Instead of wasting the money on education many worked on their farms and helping their family.

The truth is we don't know how many people could read and write fluently in those times. That is what makes this hard for both sides.

reply to post by WashingtonGrewHemp


Ah thanks for that, never knew. You know when I was a teenager I used to think that "god was in the '___'" so I can kinda relate! Too me drugs are a shortcut for higher states of consciousness whereas meditation gets your there with patience. Interesting stuff, thanks for the link!

reply to post by NonKonphormist


Perhaps these Ancient Christian writings from “John’s Preaching of the Gospel” The Acts of John 87-105
may give some understanding regarding this thread?

Found in an Ancient Christian writing called…
“John’s Preaching of the Gospel” The Acts of John 87-105
(which can be found on the net.)

It is written in verse 102 Quote;

and I held this one thing fast in my Mind,
that The Lord had Performed everything
as a SYMBOL and a DISPENSATION
for the CONVERSION and SALVATION of man.

And in verse 103 Quote;

let us worship Him,
since we have obtained mercy from Him;

not with our fingers, nor with our mouths nor with our tongue
nor with any member of our body at all,

but with The DISPOSITION of our SOUL;
let us worship Him who was made Man apart from this Body.

And let us watch, since He is at hand even now
in prisons for our sakes, and in tombs, in bonds and dungeons,
in reproaches and insults, by sea and on dry land,
in torments, sentences, conspiracies, plots and punishments;

in a word, He is with all of us, and with the Sufferers
He Suffers Himself, my brethren.

If He is called upon by any of us
He does not hold out against hearing us,
but being everywhere He hears us all.

Note where it says… in verse 103 quote;

but with The DISPOSITION of our SOUL;
let us worship Him who was made Man apart from this Body.

It is interesting that he talks about He who made MAN APART from this Body.

So He is saying that MAN is Not the Flesh (Body)

Most people don't understand this even though they claim to be Christian.


Note also in verse 102 where it says quote;

I held this one thing fast in my Mind,
that The Lord had Performed everything
as a SYMBOL and a DISPENSATION
for the CONVERSION and SALVATION of man.

(Not the Flesh or Primate.)

It is obvious when reading these two verses, that the Writings are Not about the Flesh (body) but instead about the SOUL, whose title is MAN and Not A’Dam who is the Primate (Flesh).

Most of the Cities mentioned in the bible (on Earth) including Names etc are named after the Components of ZION.
ZION is that which is in your Vision IN the SOUL and really the writings have nothing at all to do with what people call the physical world.

Therefore whether such a person as the Carpenter, who you call Jesus today, is totally irrelevant as these writings are a Parable or Symbol regarding….

a. The Components of the Soul
b. The History including the Past and Future of The Soul and Not the Flesh.
c. "The Metamorphoses of The Soul". Involving the return of "The Son of Man" or "The MAN Child" Ι Ν Ι Σ, (Not A’Dam or one of his descendants) to the SOUL; that is Inside the SOUL called MAN and Not the descendants of A’Dam who is the Flesh, Body or Primate family we incorrectly call Man today.
Hence this verse (Verse 103) Quote;

Him who was made Man
apart from this Body.

The Name Jesus Christ is a State of office and not the name Jesus as talked of today.

If the Carpenters name was who you name Jesus today which by the way a common name the writings are Not about Him, but rather the Son of God or The LIFE of God which is The LIGHT of MAN Not A’Dam as A’Dam's life was the breath or Air being a primate and Not MAN Whose LIFE is The LIGHT or LIFE of God.
The one speaking through Jesus said, Quote;
"I am The LIGHT of the World". or "I am The LIGHT."
And The LIGHT of MAN is The LIFE of GOD and it also refers to The LIGHT as being the only Begotten of The Father.

The writings have been corrupted making out, that A’Dam was MAN instead of declaring that…

a. The Flesh or Primate was named A’Dam (The Damned One.)
and...
b. The SOUL was given the Name or title of MAN

So A’Dam is "the Damned one" who is NOT MAN called the SOUL.

The fact is, if Jesus did not exist, then the Jewish or Roman authorities would have dispersed this information around the time that Christianity started to grow and spread. They didn't. The guy existed. It doesn't mean you have to worship him, it just means the guy existed. There's no reason to be so hateful of a religion that you have to deny the existence of a human being, that's just as crazy as atheists make Christians sound for believing in a floating guy in the sky.

reply to post by Equinox99


well here it gets funny, because particles and waves are interchangable, and if you can't preceive them
micro or macro, then the don't exist either...
but we have electron microscopes...
and I can measure these things.
even the sub atomic can be proven

The ten commandments like I said above, I can prove they exist,
but I can't prove they came from god.
I can prove historical figures from the around the year one existed....

I can also prove why blind belief is abad idea...
which is why I mention some of the fruits of blind belief
Im echoing Mathew

No problemo, I just hope that discussing this doesn't violate ATS's T&C. Allegro is despised by many.

reply to post by NonKonphormist


lol this thread should be deleted for being pointless its like the lil kid on here asking for proof that someone got abducted by aliens go troll somewhere else

I keep hearing this word "proof" tossed around on every thread like it's a holy grail or something.
Proof is a measure used to grade the condition of a coin.
Proof is how much evidence it takes to convince a jury of the defendant's guilt or innocence.
Proof is a measure for alcohol content. As in 80 Proof.

There is no proof, but what you consider to be enough evidence to make you believe something to the point of conviction. Then that becomes proof to you.

reply to post by loves a conspiricy


tell me who claims god wrote the bible cuz ill tell u man wrote the bible and let me be like everyone else on this website do u have proof if there was no religion that would actually happen =)

reply to post by Danbones


Well now how do you know they measure the particles and if it is accurate? Because it is kind of hard to say I created this item to measure something which you can't see, so it is proof.

No, I want to see the actual picture because in the end it is going to be they say it works so it does.

Theres a very high possibility that Jesus did exist and that he died on the cross.But it is highly improbable that he was the son of god, a spiritual, higher being, and that he came back to life. In fact, i recall hearing about a recovered letter or diary saying that Jesus was indeed a great man, but the he was no God

If such was true he would be a regular human being whose name isn't worth remembering throughout history.

Can I ask you some questions?

How do you know atoms, molecules, sub-atomic particles, and etc exist? Where is the evidence to prove they exist. And if there is no evidence than why is it taught in the schools if we can't sense it with our 5 perceptions?

Why don't you go the extra mile and question the existence of cells or sickness inducing bacteria.

We have tools that enhance those 5 perceptions (sight especially) and those enhancers are called microscopes and technology. This same technology that allows us to go beyond our limits and view things billions of miles away.

Originally posted by anonymousanonymous
I'll give you a very simple "proof" that Jesus did in fact, exist. - That proof is time itself.

"Dictionary definition : A.D.

An abbreviation used with a date, indicating how many years have passed since the birth of Jesus. The abbreviation may appear before the date (a.d. 1988), or it may appear after the date (1988 a.d.). It stands for anno Domini, a Latin phrase meaning “in the year of our Lord.”"

So - In other words, to relate to your thread, since the beginning of our calender - when it was decided to start counting the years they (The Romans) have based the starting point from the birth of Jesus. - If Jesus did not indeed exist - there would be people saying, "Emm, hang on a minute - We're counting from the birth of who?" - and it would not have been accepted - but it HAS been accepted - so therefore - Jesus must have existed.

For the record, I'm agnostic.

Did no one read this post? Read it and think about it... yeah it's called proof.
Why, why, why would they use a person that never exhisted?????????????

reply to post by Soldier of God



They did this so it must be proof. utter rubbish. This is NOT proof.

*yawn*

I smell the fumes from another pointless flame war. This whole thread is a fairly transparant attempt to pick a fight with Christians - a fight the OP admits from the outset that he can't win, since he expresses a desire for Christians not to argue with his position which he has already decided is right.

So the point of this thread is...?

reply to post by dreamwarder

So the point of this thread is...?

You are probably right!. It can never be proven. But it sure is fun watching the brainwashed try to defend, give off excuses or change the gist of the debate because they cannot prove their point. Gee they are funny!

OP was asking to be grilled on this one.

Really what does it matter at the end of the day, you can be whatever faith and can get hit by a car and die, then whatever beliefs you had do not matter anymore.

Beliefs are just something to keep you going, why try to shatter peoples beliefs? Even if those beliefs are based off of disinfo they will still take it as a personal attack.

I personally doubt Jesus was real, But real or not he currently impacts millions, making him real enough to inspire.

reply to post by Quasar_La-Zar

OP was asking to be grilled on this one.

Don't think he got grilled. The christian defenders got grilled .... badly

Originally posted by phatpackage
reply to post by dreamwarder

 

So the point of this thread is...?

You are probably right!. It can never be proven. But it sure is fun watching the brainwashed try to defend, give off excuses or change the gist of the debate because they cannot prove their point. Gee they are funny!

I'm sorry can you stop referring to us as brainwashed? You can use that term if you are a free-thinker which you are not. If you listen to scientists and such how are you not considered brainwashed?

If I ask you on evolution I guarantee, if you are educated, you will give me the text book definition and evidence from a book. In turn, that would mean you are brainwashed as well. It would mean anyone who goes through school is brainwashed to what the prof. is teaching.

And FYI. not every religious person is brainwashed. I used to be an Atheist turned Christian because of a personal experience, not because my parents force me.

reply to post by Quasar_La-Zar


Personally I don't even care, as a Christian believer, the degree to which his story was mythologized, or the form his resurrection took. Like C.S. Lewis, I looked into it, and was utterly astonished at what made an appearance, both in time and history, and within, as a type of gnosis or knowledge, which even still remains nothing but the size of a tiny seed in me - but the level of sheer genius in back of it, the supra-rationalism, the Logos (who's root is logic) has the fingerprints of a higher power written all over it, so extraordinary, is Jesus awareness from that of a traditional human being, and he of himself, as Jesus of Nazareth, was a mere nothing at that!

"What is born of flesh is flesh, but what is born of spirit IS spirit."

I once told a United Church of Canada minister I used to go visit on a regular basis, for deep discussions, when HE expressed his own doubt about the validity of the whole Jesus story (he was a Freemason so that might have screwed up his mind to a degree)

It doesn't even matter if the whole thing's a myth, either way, it is a God approved mythology.

He was taken aback by that notion, for a moment, and then I got to see the light of his own relationship with the Lord reignite the sparkle in his eye, and we both laughed, and enjoyed more of the Lord together in mutual "grokking" of the mystery, and the deep love, at the heart of it all, as well as the unfathonable genius of it, as C.S. Lewis (previously atheist) pointed out. You just simply cannot look into it, without being moved by the person and the character rendered there at the heart of it.

Jesus speaks, he has a "voice", it's there, and his mind, and his reasoning, for everything, is just, freaking AWESOME!

I feel sorry for anyone who's been turned off by "Churchianity" that you will not have the opportunity to fall in love with the person of Jesus Christ, and in so doing, fall in love with the very best part, the REAL part, of yourself, as who you really are, at core.

I shake my head at the degree of ignorance expressed on this thread, about Jesus and about Christianity and what it means and signifies.

You'd think ATS people might be a cut above the rest in terms of their reasoning and imagination, but alas that just doesn't appear to be the case, but as always, appearances can be decieving.. in other words, I'm always eternally hopeful, that people might be like C.S. Lewis, or myself, once an atheist and willing to go to great lengths to prove the whole thing wrong, and then I looked again, reinvestigated, and then, I could not but help myself than to fall in love (with some tears, but then a smile at the end even uproarious laughter, at my own folly).

Being a rebel too, makes me love Jesus all the more, plus I'm not one to reject a free gift, particularly not one as prescious, or as costly.

To me, Jesus represents the embodiment of the simplicty, on the far end of complexity, the negentropy of revitalization and regeneration, at the end of entropy and corruption. In other words, all the treasure of heaven, the whole kit and caboodle, and that treasure is His Love. Oh what a marvel, and what a friend is He!

reply to post by Equinox99

I'm sorry can you stop referring to us as brainwashed? You can use that term if you are a free-thinker which you are not.

No I will not. All religions brainwash people! You are brainwashed to the point where you have determined I am not a "free-thinker" because I do not believe in the same as you. I will say it again anyone who believes in religion is brainwashed!