To China and the world - We do NOT apologize

reply to post by AceWombat04


AceWombat04, you made a well worded statment, neither do i pick sides. They should indeed issue an apology to the inhabitants of this planet, they make discions on our behalf without our say. But the big issue isnt about goverment its about people. too many people (like the one who started this thread) are willing to throw all logic aside to show thier vast amounts of hate for a differnt country based on thier past.

Thats like blaming all current germans for the holocaust, or blaming the british for thier empire. You simply must leave things in the past, it is good to remeber so history doesnt repeat itself but to bring it up as a agurment of why you should hate a country, not only is it ingorant, but disrespectful to not only the nation itself, but to the species as a whole.

This simply proves that humans cannot get along, and if they cannot get along then there isnt much hope for thier future is there?

reply to post by Misoir


You are exactly right, I too agree we havn't been saints. However, Communism is responsible for millions upon millions of deaths, and countless torture victims. Sure we waterboarded some terrorists, at least they lived to see another day. China on the other hand, tortures its own CITIZENS for things simple things like trying to practice a religion. Communism is a scourge upon this planet, and like a virus need to be wiped out.

As far as being scared of China, don't make me laugh. Unlike in Iraq, and Afhgan, in a war with China we would bring 100% of our military capibilites, in which crushing any communist dictatorship that wants to stand against the great nation. Hell look at our fighters; the F22 is a fifth generation airframe, and china's air superiority fighter is compared to our f16 or f15 eagle. I am sorry but we control the sky.
Ground forces: Take china's armor divisions T-96 which is the second-generation main battle tank (MBT) in service with the PLA compared to the M1 Abrams; a third-generation main battle tank used by the United States. The M1 has 105 mm L52 M68 rifled cannon while the T96 is equipped with 125 mm smoothbore gun. The M1 has a road speed of 45mph 30 off road, compared to the t96 43mph. However, at spped the M1 is far more accurate due to its ballistic fire-control computer, this accuracy is very important with in battle giving the M1 a edge. Very important are the armor of the 2 MBTs. The M1 upgrades included depleted uranium armor mesh for all variants, and the Brittish Chobham armor; It may also be fitted with reactive armor over the track skirts if needed and slat armor over the rear of the tank and rear fuel cells to protect against anti-tank guided missile . Protection against spalling is provided by a Kevlar liner. On the t96 the hull and turret of the tank are protected by composite armour plating. Wheels and tracks are protected by rubber hull skirts. Also the t96 features arrow-shaped spaced add-on armour modules, and explosive reaction armour.
There are many more comparsions that could be done, but I assume you see what I am getting at. We have no reason to be either scared of China or apologize to them in any way. I have wittnessed people cheering on China, and other nations that hate the United States. Are they crazy? We are the last hope of freedom left on this planet. The only message I send to China is, You better be very careful, the United States will not bow to anyone, and crush those who mean us harm.

To tell you the truth, I think there's a problem with using the Tiananmen video as a reason to justify your deeds.

That video was DOMESTIC. China did not invade some other nation for land or resources. Sure they have human rights problems, but who doesn't? Why should China beg for forgiveness from the world for something that had nothing to do with the rest of the world? Tibet is also a DOMESTIC ISSUE.

The US on the other hand, INVADES FOREIGN SOVEREIGN ENTITIES.

This thread is so retarded...

It's not about an apology, it's just about money when it comes to China. Fact is, the US owes China a LOT of money. In order to decrease the value of the amount the US owes, the government has decided to devalue the dollar. So obviously China (and all the other nations who loaned money to the US) are obviously pissed.

Which makes it very clear why trade agreements failed.

There's nothing to apologize for, it's not a human right's question either. It's just about many overly patriotic Americans feeling angry towards China because they slowly start to realize the power China has over the US. The same power banks have over people that owe them money. If you overstep your credit, the bank shuts down and refuses to do business with you...or charges you a lot more. This is exactly what's happening in China.

reply to post by Anthony1138


So its to much to ask my President for some type of warning that a missile could hit my house tommorrow, and I should be happy with that? Sorry but war is always the last thing I want to see, but I wont apologize for something the Chinese did. Your right in saying we and the Chinese are the same. The Chinese people that is, not there government. PEOPLE WE DID NOT FIRE ON THEM THEY FIRED ON US IF WHAT IS BEING REPORTED HERE IS TRUE. to the guy Im quoting: How would you feel if you and your children were the one on the wrong side of that missile? Im sorry China. Give me a break.

reply to post by Skeptron


If you really think a war with China would be that easy, then you are deluded. You really think that no other countries would take sides? It would not be a war of two countries, it would be a world war, and in this day again age, it will make ww2 look like a walk in the country. Open your eyes my friend!

reply to post by Skeptron


I didnt even read your whole post and i couldnt stand the ingorance, we dont control the sky, china is just equally as powerful (if not supiour) then america, nor is america a "great" nation, a 'greatnation" would not have thousands upon thousands of homless, or a straving econemy, or a sevre lack in education.

You are not aware of chinas military strength? i have read this forum and most of you utter "nuke' em" allowing your ingorance to remove the fac tin your brain that "china has nukes too, more then america does" they have more fighters and unlike americans, they are ready to kill (while most american would fear and crawl for safety)

Simply leave it an a apology, because your country needs to start sooner or later, you cant just walk all over everyone and execpt them to kiss your @$$.

reply to post by ZiggyStardust


Nor do we care what the communist goverment in china think.
Also we do not care if they are mad, hate, etc.... The Chinese goverment is a non-issue, not now or in the future.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by OmegaLogos

 

Well good if you Aussies don’t like us ‘Yanks’ that’s fine with us. Most Americans probably don’t even know we have an embassy in Australia.

Look I am not trying to be offensive and I agree with you that the wars were criminal but my friend it was your nation that went into them wars by choice. No one forced Australia to do anything it didn’t want to do. I think you should be more ticked off at your own government rather than the one on the other side of the Pacific.

edit on 11/17/2010 by Misoir because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Wowsers


True but whos to say that america didnt provoke them (like they do to everybody else) also the fact that america is in HUGE debt to china says alot right there, i havnt heard anything on the news about this missle, it is possible that it didnt come from china and orginated somewhere else? (anti gravity :new technogly can make this happen on a whim)

example, lets say north korea sends a missle to the states but changes its course to make it look like it came from china, why because korea has always been a pain in the ass that just wants to stir # up, i am not saying korea is responsible, but if this is a faked missle location, then perhaps someone (tthird party) is trying to pit the 2 greatest super powers into a showdown.

btw Obama wouldnt aplogoize for nothing, clearly america might have done something to get some..unwanted attenion. (many things)

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by OmegaLogos

 

Well good if you Aussies don’t like us ‘Yanks’ that’s fine with us. Most Americans probably don’t even know we have an embassy in Australia.

Look I am not trying to be offensive and I agree with you that the wars were criminal but my friend it was your nation that went into them wars by choice. No one forced Australia to do anything it didn’t want to do. I think you should be more ticked off at your own government rather than the one on the other side of the Pacific.

edit on 11/17/2010 by Misoir because: (no reason given)

Well when we (Canada) refused to go into Iraq for combat your government started getting heavy with the trade sanctions against us here. It looked like it might have worked until we started raising the prices on Lumber and Oil and guess what happened then? It was oh sorry about that insult........So yes countries were forced into your stupid wars.

Regards, I Winder

Originally posted by Skeptron
reply to post by ZiggyStardust

 

Nor do we care what the communist goverment in china think.
Also we do not care if they are mad, hate, etc.... The Chinese goverment is a non-issue, not now or in the future.

Yeah, that dept China has over America is a "non issue" lol

reply to post by Skeptron


I cant believe the amount of posters that still see this as our fault. The majority dont live in the line of fire though and cant handle the fact that if we werent as superior as we are we would have posters of Karl Marx, Mao, Il-Sung and Jong Il on our walls and defenitely not posting on a board called Above Top Secret. Even the mere mention of your country being the bad guy can land you in hard labor encampments.

Brilliant thread, Misor. So many aren't aware of the atrocities that the Chinese government is responsible for. I'll never apologize to any Chinamen or women. Never.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
Brilliant thread, Misor. So many aren't aware of the atrocities that the Chinese government is responsible for. I'll never apologize to any Chinamen or women. Never.

Get a grip!!!! China is not asking you to apologize. But i have to say this. Will you apologize to the Iraq people for what has happend to their country?

reply to post by Jay-morris


Never once do I forget that the brave British airmen pulled off one of the greatest air battle victories in histories. It is a great historical example of leadership, by Churchill.

They also had extra supplies from the US in the form of lend-lease. Not to mention the volunteers from america... By no means do I claim the US produces the only leaders...

Outside of it I will show you the same respect you have shown me.

Your right hillbilly factor.... Loyalty to an idea and a dream is backwoods I guess... In fact I will give the same nod to the hillbilly factor to the men who forced a king to sign the

Magna Carter

Magna Carta is an English charter, originally issued in the year 1215, and reissued later in the 13th century in modified versions that omit certain temporary provisions, including the most direct challenges to the monarch's authority. The charter first passed into law in 1225. The 1297 version, with the long title (originally in Latin) The Great Charter of the Liberties of England, and of the Liberties of the Forest, still remains on the statute books of England and Wales. The 1215 Charter required King John of England to proclaim certain liberties, and accept that his will was not arbitrary, for example by explicitly accepting that no "freeman" (in the sense of non-serf) could be punished except through the law of the land, a right which is still in existence today. Magna Carta was the first document forced onto an English King by a group of his subjects (the barons) in an attempt to limit his powers by law and protect their privileges. It was preceded and directly influenced by the 1100 Charter of Liberties, when King Henry I had specified particular areas where his powers would be limited.

Look national loyalty is not outmoded, The applications by various powers are. The ideas of the united states of america are liberty and freedom.

Now if the point of your post is that the US has violated this on multiple occasions then no disagreement...

I could give just as long a list of grief over decisions recent and long ago.... All supposedly done in the name of freedom...

I could also do the same for The UK, Russia, Australia, et al...



A british friend of mine who is former UK Army pointed out something. She said the US should thank the UK for the systems of government we got from you. She pointed out the fact both mexico and Louisiana systems are based on the french models to a large degree. Both have a lot of economic problems....

Why am I bringing this up?

Easy, it is part of what makes the US great. Our diversity is part of our strength. We take the best from around the world and implement it. We are a young country... By no means is my patriotism right or wrong... It is the ideals I believe in and not all the applications.

Yet for some reason you see fit to put us down as hillbillies... The romans where hillbillies to... and both our systems of government are derived from them.

Welcome to the hillbilly club club cuz...

reply to post by Misoir

we solve them without mass violence

Tell that to the Native Americans, tell that to Iraqi civilians.

While I'm no fan of Chinese atrocities I also wouldn't pretend that America is in anyway righteous or has ever been a morally upstanding nation. Our very founding is rooted in rebellion against the British, who, despite popular belief, were never overtly tyrannical. I mean the main cause of the revolution was taxation without representation, but the taxes were to pay for a war that England fought on our behalf. While I'm sure it was no picnic in Colonial America I'm not entirely sure a violent revolution was called for... and yes it was a violent revolution, so there's another example of resorting to mass violence to solve a problem. Another issue solved violently was the Civil War and while I'm sure it would have been nearly impossible to avoid conflict with the Confederacy it was still violent and innocent people still did get hurt. Also, you don't think we resort to violence? Tell that to the innocent Japanese civilians who were vaporized in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We don't resort to martial law? Tell that to Japanese citizens rounded up into internment camps.

Yes China has done some really bad things and I too disagree with people who would seek to apologize to them (unless we've really done something terrible to them directly). But I also don't like it when people pretend that the United States is the greatest nation since sliced bread. Our history is just as filled with bloodshed as any other nation, our country is built upon the backs of slaves and the blood of Natives.

No country is righteous and if we do make mistakes maybe we should apologize instead of being self-righteous bullies.

reply to post by Misoir


What do you have to say about the elites that are running this country my dear friend ? Haven't you realized that the america you take pride is being scanned naked at airports, allowing government officials to fondle your wife and daughters ? Everybody loves the ideas upon which this country was founded. But if the same principles are not being a practical reality, and is being occluded by the super-rich elites who are willing to plunge the entire economy so that they can sit on top of a gold-pile, then the america you always wanted isn't a reality, except in television..

I feel for your love for these "american" ideas brother.. But sorry, they are a thing of the past now, with the bankers and fed not caring about freedom or equality of fellow american citizens anymore.. Please don't be emotional , and be willing to face the facts that it is the elites that are ruling this country, and the long cherished ideas of democracy exists only in Main stream media, and not in real life here ( why would they hide 9/11 facts from the public despite mass protests ? )...

reply to post by ripcontrol


I said some of Americans Patriotism is creepy and reminds me of those weird hillbillies,and i do find it disturbing. Im not saying that America has not done any good things. All i am saying is, we have people saying this and that about China, some of it BS, and all i am saying is America is just as bad in its own way, and they are.

I hate Patriotism for your country, and i can't wait until we get past this primitive way of thinking. Patriotism for the planet, now, thats more like it, but i don't think i will see that in my life time. It truely amazes me that there are some people out there who find their country more important than the planet. I think is shocking and sad!

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Misoir

 

we solve them without mass violence

Tell that to the Native Americans, tell that to Iraqi civilians.

While I'm no fan of Chinese atrocities I also wouldn't pretend that America is in anyway righteous or has ever been a morally upstanding nation. Our very founding is rooted in rebellion against the British, who, despite popular belief, were never overtly tyrannical. I mean the main cause of the revolution was taxation without representation, but the taxes were to pay for a war that England fought on our behalf. While I'm sure it was no picnic in Colonial America I'm not entirely sure a violent revolution was called for... and yes it was a violent revolution, so there's another example of resorting to mass violence to solve a problem. Another issue solved violently was the Civil War and while I'm sure it would have been nearly impossible to avoid conflict with the Confederacy it was still violent and innocent people still did get hurt. Also, you don't think we resort to violence? Tell that to the innocent Japanese civilians who were vaporized in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We don't resort to martial law? Tell that to Japanese citizens rounded up into internment camps.

Yes China has done some really bad things and I too disagree with people who would seek to apologize to them (unless we've really done something terrible to them directly). But I also don't like it when people pretend that the United States is the greatest nation since sliced bread. Our history is just as filled with bloodshed as any other nation, our country is built upon the backs of slaves and the blood of Natives.

No country is righteous and if we do make mistakes maybe we should apologize instead of being self-righteous bullies.

edit on 18-11-2010 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)

Well said!