Police watchdog website (FITwatch) shut down.

wow!!!! thx for the posts !!! agreed with 'not all cops are bad but the good ones are spoiled by the 1000s that are. After just clicking on the first link.. people can still say.. "yep.. there's nothing wrong.. I still trust them".. how can you say this and not say that the trust in our last line of defense against crime is now SHATTERED!!!

wow.. just wow.. and truely sad... !!! and THIS one just happened yesterday in a town that farily close

www.oregonlive.com...

Originally posted by Frogs
reply to post by russ1969

 

Well - I'm not necessarily 100% in agreement. I agree that police misconduct is often a local (or state) issue depending on the alleged misconduct. However, it can also be a federal issue for certain types of misconduct.

People that do not respect or trust the police could be lawbreakers, that is true. However, they could have also had an experience with a "bad apple" that spoiled their view of all the officers.

You are right, most officers are good people. But, as you say - there are bad ones out there as evidenced by the examples in the links below.

Unknown News - Cops

Reddit - Bad Cop, No Doughnut

Injustice Everywhere

Not all cops are bad, most are not, but we hear about the bad ones everyday.

Originally posted by russ1969
reply to post by Acidtastic

 

I think what needs to be clarified here is police problems are treated on a local level not national. Meaning that if police are in the wrong The community cries out for justice and it is dealt with accordingly. When you have a site that exploits the wrong doing of law enforcement, You are rationalizing that all cops are bad, The fact is just like normal people there are bad seeds.

I have found over the years that most people don't have much respect for the law, And it is a real shame. These people put there asses on the line everyday so people like you and me can enjoy our freedom.

My belief is the people that don't respect them are most likely bad people that most likely break the law. I cannot see any other reason can you?

So we have:

1) "I have found over the years that most people don't have much respect for the law...These people put there asses on the line everyday"

2) "My belief is the people that don't respect them are most likely bad people that most likely break the law"

Therefore: The poster believes that "most people" are "most likely bad people that most likely break the law". (If I am right to infer that the poster is using 'the law' in the sense of police officers).

Is this right?

Originally posted by russ1969
reply to post by wcitizen

 

freedom of speech? or blatant hatred? And no my views will not change. Because I personally don't subscribe to the notion that there will be a new world order.I have been hearing this stuff since i was a kid and i can say that because we live in a democracy, Things go up and down every decade. A lot of people think this is a new movement or something but it's not.

en.wikipedia.org...(conspiracy_theory)

you can review the link and see the fundamentals have changed but not the basic idea.

Thanks for the link, but I don't need wikipedia to tell me that I don't live in a democracy.
second.

reply to post by plishman


Most people that don't respect the law probably in my opinion do break the law. My real point was that i came on here to state my opinion and was trying to show that without cops we would be screwed. I have no respect for bad cops the same as i don't respect people who break the law.It works both ways. but i don't make a website targeting every person because of a few bad apples. In this case it would be the same as singling out a certain race. Do you see my point now?

reply to post by russ1969


If the small-minded twats who felt that smashing up and then occupying a building, was any form of legitimate right to protest, then they deserve all they get. In the meantime, the rest of us who wish to excercise those rights are now having to face being tarred with the same brush, and viewed as potential rioters and treated as such.

Thankyou very much to those inconsiderate morons, your actions are nothing other than that of ignorant hooligans as opposed to one of legitimate protest at a grievance with government policy.

Originally posted by russ1969
reply to post by wcitizen

 

freedom of speech? or blatant hatred? And no my views will not change. Because I personally don't subscribe to the notion that there will be a new world order.I have been hearing this stuff since i was a kid and i can say that because we live in a democracy, Things go up and down every decade. A lot of people think this is a new movement or something but it's not.

en.wikipedia.org...(conspiracy_theory)

you can review the link and see the fundamentals have changed but not the basic idea.

I think you're partially right. You've been hearing about the NWO and you think it will never come, right? Well, the frog doesn't jump out of the pot if you turn up the heat slowly.

Think back to the freedoms even you used to enjoy. Travel without random checkpoints, no body scanners, no enhanced pat downs, free speech at political rallys, not being penned in a few miles away where no one can see or hear you, not having sound cannons and microwave heat devices such as those used at the G20 summitt. No american citizens being targeted for assassination by the president, no american citizen jailed at Gitmo without a trial (even the Rosenberg's had a trial). No food police telling people in San Francisco that they couldn't have Happy Meals. And on, and on, and on...

Maybe I'm older than you but things ARE different, things ARE more restrictive, we ARE under more economic control. We may not be fully under a NWO and may never be, but there is enough control right now by the powerful for everyone to be concerned about.

Like I said, if you boil the frog slowly he won't jump out of the pot. But, the end result will be the frog dies. Our Freedoms are boiling very slowly.

FITwatch are back! With thanks to the police for the publicity

On Monday night we received notification that our site had been suspended due to “attempting to pervert the course of justice” due to our posting offering advice to the Millbank students. Whilst the email requesting the site be closed on the basis it was being used for “criminal activity” came from DI Paul Hoare, from the Police Central e-crime Unit, the authorisation to close was given much closer to home, by acting Detective Inspector Will Hodgeson. Hodgeson, who was involved in the first Fitwatch case, and has sat through many of our trials and appeals, evidently finally had enough and decided to shut us down. However, through totally underestimating the power of social media, this pathetic attempt has failed miserably. Within minutes of networking what had happened, people were re-publishing the post anywhere and everywhere. There are now over 100 sites carrying the original post – we haven’t managed to count them all. We have been overwhelmed by the support and solidarity and send massive thanks to everyone who’s offered to help and reposted the information. If we haven’t replied personally, it’s only because we’ve been inundated, and haven’t had time. This was a real attempt to squash dissent and criticism of the police, as well as attempting to stifle common sense advice to protesters subject to a witch hunt by the right wing press. The solidarity given by so many people has ensured this hasn’t happened, and has shown we can fight back. Even if we were to be arrested and prosecuted now, we would still be grateful to CO11 for the amount of publicity they’ve generated for us. We’re back, and we’re stronger than ever.

www.fitwatch.org.uk...

I now feel a little safer knowing that there are people watching the police (again) .

reply to post by russ1969

Sorry Russ I dont agree,
Show it for what it is and who it is, never embrace or defend the shackle that can be put on your leg at any moment, because when you do it will happen to you and when it does no one will care or come to your aid.

O.k, fair enough. Let us put this into perspective and see what happens.

First this thread is about a server that pulled one of there clients sites. The reason, nobody but the client and the server will know. So far there is no clear answer, So then we have people complaining that now we can't keep track of bad officers and all the bad things they do.

Now lets turn this around for a second. What about if there was a database for all the people to see that shows all criminal activity and names them and gives information that would narrow it down to there location. not addresses but city and state. Cops could get on there and post things about you. I am sure you wouldnt like it. Now mind you on both sides of this we are only dealing with speculation. Because if you where not there personally, than you have no idea if what is being written is true or not.

Innocent until proven guilty. So anyone can go on these type of sites and spew false accusations about someone just because they dont like them or what have you. let's say you was arrested on charges you know where false. Then you go online and you see your name being slandered with false accusations. I am sure you wouldnt be happy and would demand a site like this should be pulled.

And does anyone really think this type of site is productive in any way? I sure dont. It breeds hate and malicious behavior. And i am no stranger to police corruption. I grew up in Los Angeles almost my whole life. Chief daryl gates of the L.A.P.D. He was no saint and encouraged his officers to beat people down if they didnt comply. I have had my run in's with them many times. I have been threatened, arrested, Then threatened again by the people in charge. And it wasnt a race issue, I am caucasion. They where just flat out asses. Then on the other side of the coin, I knew cops that where not like that at all. They where respectful to others and never showed a violent side. By the way, when i was arrested i was doing things i shouldnt have and the police where doing there job by arresting me. They where just in the wrong by there actions towards me. No hard feelings though, I am still here and alive.Karma is the real winner.

So it really wouldnt be fair to shun all cops because of a few of there actions. I see more bad in civilians than i do cops, But you dont see me spewing nonsense about how all people are bad because of these idiots.

i will say it again, I am not defending the idiot officers that are bad or people for that matter. People keep saying freedom of speech. What about the right's of godaddy.com? Do they not have the right to decide the content put on there site? Or should we take away there freedoms so a few people in the public can have there way?

It is quite ridiculous we are arguing over such a simple matter.Fact is there are cops and citizens that are bad. it has been that way since the beginning, Nothing new. And when a cop does wrong, It is normally on the news and in most cases they have to resign or get suspended. In any case it is a local matter and the community is the voice. Some go national depending on how bad it was and what group or above average citizen they pissed off.

And to all of you that want's to bring other issue's into this thread like our right's being taken away and how soon we wont have any, You may be right but thats not what this thread is about. And it really wasnt a big deal because there are always other servers that would allow this site to continue. So everyone can go back to what they where doing now. The site is back.

reply to post by russ1969


We need sites like that to show that in America is not such thing as true justice, most police departments are full of corruption and dirt.

In my neck of the woods in GA the corruption of police departments locally yield one or two scandals a year.

Yes, where I live been a corrupted cop is just part of the job.

reply to post by russ1969


I understand your point - thank you for clarifying. I'm not trying to get at you, and FWIW I too believe police are necessary.

I did visit FITwatch a couple of times, and, as far as I could tell, the main purpose of the site was to rebalance the public's ability to protest with the increasingly paramilitary strategies of the police in the UK. This is something I agree with.

The police force in the UK appears to be run by a small mercenary organization, ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers), a private company created by high-ranking police officers which draws profits from the sale of dubious 'accreditations' (i.e. scout badges) for private security personnel, as well as charging public and private organizations for access to information held on databases created with public money.

ACPO seems to be aware of its power. Its head office, near to New Scotland Yard in London, the official police headquarters, sports an oversize "10", on the building (pictures at www.dailymail.co.uk...). This seems to be a subliminal challenge to the authority of 10 Downing Street, and by implication the government. Of course this may be nothing more than coincidence, since as with all subliminal channel messages it is easily deniable and controvertible, yet its effect on its audience is not diminished by this.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by russ1969

 

We need sites like that to show that in America is not such thing as true justice, most police departments are full of corruption and dirt.

In my neck of the woods in GA the corruption of police departments locally yield one or two scandals a year.

Yes, where I live been a corrupted cop is just part of the job.

So do you believe that a web site like that would stop the corruption? And 2 or 3 a year compared to the countless crimes dont compare. And if there is proof of corruption than i am sure the attorney's general may have something to say. Or maybe the whole system is corrupt? And society is corrupt? If so than what choice would we have then. I would say more people need to come together as a community and be right there in the mix of things. Go to city meetings and let your voices be heard. Be part of the solution. Complaining on the internet in a chat room or conspiracy site just wont do it. because we ,meaning all of us here for example will never unite to make changes. If we are lucky the news may pick up a story from here and Spin it for a few days for ratings than it will just fade away because they will move on to another story of the day.

The question would be, how important is it to you and what can you do about it?

This is kind of sick. We all know that the public is the only police that polices the police. Next thing you know they make it illegal to film cops or something and then they can just run amok.

reply to post by russ1969


Sorry it took me so long to respond to your post. Anyway, you are correct this has nothing to do with thugs. If you don't consider cops thugs. I do. Because they are thugs. Now first off you hide behid the few bad apple argument. That is total BS. I was a cop for 7 years in one of the largest metropolitan police departments in the U.S. There are not just a few bad apples. They are everywhere. But that doesn't really matter either. It is more about the departments and the horrendous policies they use to cover up rampant criminal behavior within the departments.

They used to hire a certain group of people and try to weed out another group up until about 10 years ago. The group they tried to hire were stable people with an even keel who's interest was not in action or the badge, it was about serving the community and being a part of a community. They looked for people who respected the law and understood that it was their community as well those they policed. Then that stopped. They started hiring the type of sociopaths they used to try to avoid. Sure some ended up on the force because they hid well but not many. Now they ARE the police. These are people who get off on power and adrenaline. They like having power over other citizens. And many, many are unstable. Used to be in my department they didn't necessarily look at being a veteran as a good thing because war and law enforcement were NOT the same thing. That has changed and so have the type of cops they hire.

Another problem with their policy is that they do everything and anything to keep corruption and criminal behavior within the department under wraps. Call it fear from the politicians at the top of the department or protecting the brotherhood from a beat cop but it is all BS. They have had murder, rape, drugs, pedophilia, fraud, you name it and they just shove it under a rug and move the cops involved to a new precinct!

Now I know you said a few bad apples shouldn't ruin it for all and I would be doing a disservice to those guys I worked with that meant well if I said all cops are crooked because they are not. But my friend, it is NOT just a few bad apples. Corruption, addiction, and mental health issues are rampant in law enforcement. I would say that percentage wise, the cops I worked with were far more likely to be criminals than the civilians I dealt with every day! I was a small fish in a big pond and I personally saw so much corruption and criminal behavior at every turn it jaded me for life. I grew up wanting to be a cop and then when I had the shot, I found out the truth. Of course I should have known from the stories I heard growing up with 3 cops in my family.

Now for your last point. I find it weak minded, sick and wrong that you try to hide behind racism as an excuse to not hold cops accountable for their actions! Having a site that holds cops accountable for their actions has nothing in common with a hate site that hates people based on the color of their skin! Cops are given awesome power within our communities. And as they say, with that awesome power comes awesome responsibility. When they don't live up to what are rigthfully higher expectations than the general citizens, they must atone. And at this time since the government is no longer on our side, we have an obligation to police the police! They work a hard job, but they must be mentally strong and morally just to be a cop. There are many who aren't anymore and watching them is OUR duty to the community we share with them. Don't ever try to hide cops being held responsible for not doing their jobs in the same light as racism. It's weak, unfounded, and proves that you have no real leg to stand on with your argument.

*applauds*

Awesome post man, thanks for taking the time to tell it how it is.

reply to post by Redwookieaz


First i would like to say i am not hiding behind anything. and i am sorry you had so much corruption in your department and city. I for one , from experience and haven been all over the united states can tell you that there are good cops and bad. But for the most part good. But you tell me how an everyday citizen can stop these bad cops by ranting on a web sight and making accusations that may or may not be true.? You think because you was a cop that you can tell me how narrow minded i am because i have different beliefs than you?

And secondly, There are better ways to stop police corruption. One way is for cops that are currently working, Not let these bad cops get away with it. You where sworn in and gave an oath. What happened there where you afraid of retaliation? In my opinion that is a cowardly way out. So dont try to turn this on me because i still have some faith left in our law enforcement. Because the fact is, If i had taken that oath i would have died for it as well. And furthermore, I never once in this thread put anyone down for posting there opinion.So i would appreciate it if you would lay off !! This is Not what A.T.S is all about.

And to anyone that is having a problem with police harassment, That's what the attorney"s general is for. they are appointed by vote unlike the united states attorney general that is picked by the president.

reply to post by russ1969


First off, I didn't attack you. Not once. I attacked your argument. I said you had no leg to stand on comparing racism to keeping a watchful eye on cops via a website. You are being defensive and you are not going to listen to what anybody else has to say because of it.

I have worked with departments from all over the US, the US marshals, the FBI, and the Secret Service. Trust me there is corruption everywhere.

I also don't mind you implying that I am a coward. Again you are being defensive and it only proves you aren't familiar with what goes on inside police departments or how they operate. You should also know that nothing good would come from filing reports wiithin the chain of command.

Also, the attorney general is a politician, and is just as corrupt as the next one and of no use to any citizen.

The only real means of affecting change is through media campaigns. Like you would do through a website. Or wholesale replacement of all politicians. Of course that is another issue and likely not going to happen easily.

I'm not going to argue about this as I've said my piece and this is a matter of opinion and it is a waste of time to argue about it. I feel confident that others who read this post will see what both you and I have posted and that your argument has no logic to it.

If you can't see where the sting of being caught breaking the law or in a criminal action on a nationally recognized website will help lead to policy changes within a department I don't know what else to say.

reply to post by Redwookieaz



You forgot about the part about me being narrow minded. Anyhow it is the attorney;s general not the attorney general Just to clear that up and It seems you have no faith at all in the system. Thats to bad i am sorry you feel that way. And i wasn't trying to bring race into anything. My example wasn't intended to be a race issue. So let me say it another way, Targeting a certain group, Group referring to the police, Is the same as targeting any other group such as lets say the catholic church or maybe as extreme as a white, black, brown, green, purple... etc.It does not matter. The point is the police are looked at by most people as an entity within itself. and not just people trying to do there job.

And i will say it just one more time, I am not on the side of the police, the people. or any such group. Because we are all people in my eyes and there is no need to assume because you say that there are more corrupt cops then good. You are basing that on your own experiences of your department. I for one have not seen that type of wide spread corruption. And i am not being defensive, I am sure we can agree to disagree.

Could be we are both right. Corruption is bad where you are and it has never been bad where i am or have been. Except for los angeles while daryl gates was in charge. And we all know about the rodney king beating. It was after that that things changed for the better in L.A. I was relaying back to you what my opinion was regarding you'r statement about seeing corruption in your job and as a sworn police officer you took an oath to stop crime and protect the people. But yet you did nothing to stop it.

You may think that calling me narrow minded Is o.k, But it is defensive and i dont think i deserved that.

So on record i will say, I never said anything about you being a coward. You put those words in my mouth.I asked if you was afraid of retaliation. And why you didnt do something about it. But none of that really matters now. I was just trying to make a point. No hard feelings from me. And i apologize if i offended you. It was not my intent. And maybe i over reacted. I am very civil and in no way meant any disrespect. I am in no way narrow minded, And i have had my mind changed on many occasions. That is because a lot of time i am playing devil's advocate. It is always better to look at all sides.

What you have to realize is most people on the street dont have any respect at all for the police. And to me that is not right. They do not know them for them to make that judgment. I just dont want to see people hating the police for no reason. I guess it comes down to personal experience and nothing more. If you dont mind me asking, what state did you work in that was so corrupt? I will remember to watch my ass when i pass through there.

No hard feeling's. and i look forward to seeing you on the boards in the future.

And you was right. i used the word cowardly, I will retract that statement.

reply to post by Acidtastic


What can I say, is great to see that freedom of speech should prevail, hail for those lovers of peoples rights, hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!