Evolution: PROVE IT!

Ok, due to the overwhelming success...actually, due to the overwhelming number of posts in my "Creationism/ID: PROVE IT!" thread that attempted to debunk evolution, I'd like to open this thread up for discussion of the validity of proofs of evolution.

For now, I'll allow someone else to open the discussion with a post that proves evolution.

So let's go. Prove evolution.

Quick edit to add something that prevents this thread from becoming a mess:

Please do not address a proof of evolution that has not been brought up. This is a proof ->response->rebuttal etc thread, not a "let's just try to randomly debunk things that aren't in the discussion" thread.

the fact that whales have given up their "legs" in exchange for fins should be an example. whales have hips man, and dont have anything that it would be useful for, meaning that it is leftover from adaptation, similar to little bumps on snakes where their appendages "used" to be when they would be categorized as lizards. proof is everywhere for evolution, but nowhere for creationism. weird how brainwashing is so effective, even with false information

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

Prove evolution

30 observed instances of speciation

inb4it'sonlyatheory

~

reply to post by hypocrites

the fact that whales have given up their "legs"
in exchange for fins should be an example

Rebuttal: you appear to be asserting that whales at one time had legs. Demonstrate this, please.

whales have hips man, and dont have anything that it would be useful for

And humans have tailbones. But it's a leap of logic to assume that just because organisms have "unused parts" that these are necessarily leftovers from previous forms.

reply to post by LordBucket


LB. I was wondering if you can explain the link you embedded better.
Thanks!

Religion proves that evolution took place to Even though they wont admit it. But that is probably because they don't understand what they read in Genesis chapter 1.

If the preacher or the teacher has got it wrong. The crowd will get it wrong too.

The Galapagos finches and the speckled moths are the two examples I always remember off the top of my head.

If you x-ray any mammals you'll find that they all have the same bone structure, but arranged differently





What I realised the other day, is how do people deny we are related to apes, when our hands are exactly the same?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Ok, due to the overwhelming success...actually, due to the overwhelming number of posts in my "Creationism/ID: PROVE IT!" thread that attempted to debunk evolution, I'd like to open this thread up for discussion of the validity of proofs of evolution.

For now, I'll allow someone else to open the discussion with a post that proves evolution.

So let's go. Prove evolution.

Quick edit to add something that prevents this thread from becoming a mess:

Please do not address a proof of evolution that has not been brought up. This is a proof ->response->rebuttal etc thread, not a "let's just try to randomly debunk things that aren't in the discussion" thread.

edit on 14/11/10 by madnessinmysoul because: everything after the wrod 'quick'

"Evolution" cannot be proven. The requirement is that it is subjected to rigorous testing by various independent researchers each attempting to discover any major flaw in the hypothesis. Note that during this stage "evolution" is not yet a "theory" but only a "hypothesis". When all attempts to disprove it fail the next step is for a consensus of scientists to agree to elevate it to a "theory". In other words a scientific theory has passed the required number of attempts to disprove it.

If you, or a bunch of Christians, or someone else want to have "evolution" thrown out on it's ear the burden is upon you, not science. You must do your own testing and find a flaw. When you find this flaw you must submit it in the accepted scholarly format to accredited universities for consideration. It is the established leaders in science then who will accept or reject your work.

This is the way that science works. Experience tells us that anyone who demands proofs is an outsider who knows nothing of scientific investigation.

Another note here is important. "Theory" in the common use of the word is just an idea. Example "I have a theory of what happened to the car". In science the word "theory" means an entirely different thing. A scientific theory has passed all the tests imaginable and is accepted as fact.

Lastly when science learns more it is common for older theories to be modified or set aside in favor of new ones.

Science is much different than Bible study friend. Opinions don't cut it in science.

"Evolution" is fact until new information displaces it.

If you want an example of evolution then just consider the lowly Halibut. This fish is in the middle of evolving from a vertically orientated fish to a horizontally orientated one. Note how the mouth is still orientated the wrong way and note the eyes. One is moving into a different position but it is not yet there so they look funny. Evolution takes time usually. When I say time I mean a long time. God's Intelligent Design is helping this fish to adapt to a new or better food source so it can survive. This is what evolution is and God set the whole process up, not a bunch of atheists.

"I want to know God's thoughts. The rest are details." Albert Einstein

God created the universe and then instituted evolution as His method of insuring that all things constantly change and improve as time goes by. God made the first single celled animal and then God's evolution did the rest. The Bible was written by man and parts of it are wrong.

All that is necessary to have this make sense is to chuck the first couple of chapters of Genesis. Let's face it, this is the problem. Oh how badly the Christians want their book to be correct. How fearful they are that if any small part is wrong then their whole faith is jeopardized. To be this way is silly. Get the bigger picture. God's greatest gift to man is his brain. We have it for a reason. Let's use it.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

I was wondering if you can explain the link you embedded better.

It's basically a list of a whole bunch of times in which organisms have been observed under laboratory conditions to produce offspring which are biologically incompatible with the parents, but remain completely viable. For example, first example on the list, a primrose plant that had a different number of chromosomes than the parent plant. It was a new species, totally functional on its own, but biologically distinct and incompatible with the parent. This would be somewhat similar to a chimpanzee giving birth to an orangutan.

Speciation is an observable phenomenon, and it is an extreme example of evolution. There may be varying theories to explain why it happens...but in terms of "proving" it, all one needs to do is point to examples. Similarly, I can't tell you why gravity works, but if you asked me to "prove gravity" to you I wouldn't waste my time with esoteric theories, I'd just drop a hammer on your foot. Evolution can be "proved" in the same way.

If we evolved from Apes then why are there still Apes? I'm not saying animals don't / can't evolve but mankind did not evolve from an ape, mankind has evolved from mankind. You can even see it today, kids are taller now on average than in the past. Life didn't start as a single cell organism and evolve into so many different things from that one organism. The odds of life not being specifically created are so close to zero you can call it zero.

reply to post by LordBucket


google "whale leg fossil" - RESULT 1
Whales Had Legs Until 40 MYA

reply to post by Dantas


LOL ..... are you messing with me right now ??

" Why are there still apes " ???? LOL

Your basic understanding of evolution is so elementary it would do no good for me to explain that to you here.

reply to post by Dantas


There are still other "Apes", because they occupy a different "Ecological Niche".
There are no other "Hominids" because the niche was shared and we ate them.

(or interbred whilst our chromosomes were compatible)

Everything regarding religion is theory,"Theology".

The "Theory of evolution" is somewhat self explanatory.

Theories.

reply to post by Dantas


The most common asked question with regards to evolution lol. We didn't evolve from apes, we share a common ancestor. When they went one way we went the other.

Let's take, for example, two "tribes" of apes who are genetically similar. They can at will have sex and reproduce with one another. If by some chance they become irreversibly separated, due to geographic circumstances (the valley they were living in became flooded, etc ) then over time they would grow at different rates to one another. Each "tribe" producing some mutations that make them only slightly different from the other. Over a long period of time these mutations will become so different that if the two tribes were reintroduced to one another, they would no longer be able to mate to produce viable offspring. They would now be two separate species. Horses and donkeys can reproduce, and give birth to a mule, but it will be infertile.


EDIT: you have a picture of a troll as your avatar. Coincidence?

The coolest thing I learned in college,is that every single critter in existence that has a skeletal system,has the same number of bones.

All species are just a re-arrangement of a common construct,a base design.

Kinda makes that matrix movie make a bit more sense in a a way.

We are all products of our own imagination.

We just agree to disagree.

reply to post by myster0

google "whale leg fossil" - RESULT 1
Whales Had Legs Until 40 MYA

Alternate explanations:

1) Multiple unrelated animals were unearthed from the same location and incorrectly reassembled. This has happened before. On multiple occassions. Kind of often, really.

2) It is a completely different and unrelated, but similar species. Apes and humans are also similar. There is no reason to assume that one came from the other.

I believe I should post an article from wikipedia about Walking Fish.
Source

Walking fish, sometimes called ambulatory fish, is a general term that refers to fish that are able to travel over land for extended periods of time. The term may also be used for some other cases of nonstandard fish locomotion, e.g., when describing fish "walking" along the sea floor.

Walking Fish are awesome.

reply to post by Dantas


Because we did not evolve from modern apes, us and apes evolved from a common ancestor. However, our environments were different so different traits were selected as being advantageous.

On topic, one simply needs to look at the structure of the brain. For example if one looks at the brains of reptiles they are very simple. As one moves forward in the evolutionary history of the world, the brain becomes more complex, but the earlier structures remain. Those simple brains possessed by reptiles still remain in the complex brains of humans as the hindbrain.