Realistic Survival Preparation

Originally posted by Sideband

Originally posted by Patron Saint

10. MRE: pack with you enough food to keep you going for at least 2 weeks to get you started. You'll also have fish, berries, wild life, etc to choose from as well. But always remember; water first, shelter second, food third.

2 weeks of MREs? At just one a day thats 14, which is more than a case and it's going to cost you 21 lbs in pack weight. It's even worse if you are wanting to maintain body weight because you are going to have to spend a lot of time gathering nuts and berries or double up the MREs. Maybe your pack will, but my pack will not hold 14 MREs along with my other gear, let alone 28.
I am also going to disagree with water first, then shelter. There are too many situations where shelter is the primary consideration.
I got to thinking about the total weight here. I've not weighed it but 100 rounds of .308 has to come in close to 8 lbs. So at 300 to 500 rounds you are talking ~20 to 40 lbs in ammo. Add that to the MREs and we are at ~60 lbs of food and bullets. 60 lbs before you add anything else to the pack, like a 7 pound rifle to shoot that ammo. Your numbers just are't seeming realistic, but maybe you are exceptionally big and strong

edit on 13-11-2010 by Sideband because: added ammo weight info

The above statements are rough estimates and a general idea, nothing set in stone for someone...

2 weeks of MRE's are an average I have in my pack. I have a CFP-90 Ranger pack (70.62.253.162...) this is it without the patrol pack on top. I'm a firm believer in that you can always make shelter, find food and a water source. That's why it's key to prepare, scout out a place, etc. You don't want to go into anything blind. This is situation X; you'll want to be able to sustain yourself for awhile. If you don't have water or a water source of some kind you won't make it, plain and simple. I can go out into the woods and make a shelter with no problem. I've had years of Military training on survival, so it comes naturally to me. It might not be the best living conditions, but it will serve it's purpose. Remember, this is about survival. If your pack won't hold that much weight it might be time to pick up something a big bigger. Your not going to want a small pack, this pack is going to be your everything. You can go light on the food as you can always scour for food, hunt, fish, etc. This is just a recommendation. I can promise water will be your first concern. I've lived 4 to 6 weeks at a time out in the wilderness with no shelter at all, just bits and pieces to keep myself hidden in training exercises. 2 things your body can live without for a while and that's food and shelter, but if you don't have water it's game over. Shelter is very easily made if you have the right equipment...even if you don't, you can make shelter out of almost anything. Remember, this is about survival not quality of living. On ammo weight...you don't have to have 300 to 500 rounds, that's just a rough estimate. I recommend at least 300 rounds "just in case". 100 rounds is roughly 8 to 9 lbs of weight. I have an LBV (load bearing vest, which I should have put in the post but assumed others would have one) that I carry 100 rounds total on, the rest goes in my pack. The rifle you carry on you, you don't put it in the pack. You'll want this out and ready for a "just in case" situation. That's 34 lbs in ammo and a rifle, add in the MRE's and your close to 50 lbs which is about right. Everything else you pack won't weigh a ton, so your looking at humping 65 lbs of gear on your back...something I've been use to since I was in the Service. Like I said, if your not in shape...get there, because if you're not it's going to be extremely hard for you to survive. I'm not exceptionally big and strong, I'm at 6'2 215 pounds but I'm use to rucking a pack and keep myself in top shape on a daily basis. It's important to remember that water is going to be a key to your survival, I think you discount that. Shelter is easily accessible in almost any situation. I hope this helps.

So much depends on the environment you are operating in at the time . For in hotter climates if you are active you will need something like 8 - 10L of water per day . In the opposite extreme cold climates shelter will be needed to keep you from freezing to death . It is important to your limitations and operate within them as well as having achievable realistic goals . You could just simply look at building resilience amongst your community by having a Community Emergency Response Team and or a sector team as well . If you have enough manpower the sector post team or teams can train together once a month and the CERT a couple of times a year . In the event of a disaster a Sector Post team can act as the management for the CERT .

good reading here,

I would say that candles are quite handy too,
makes light, bit of heat, gives hope costs nothing.
Got huge christmas one in my stash

and herbal remedy/spices like ginger or clove,
works great on cold or desifenction and its natural ! and costs next to nothing,
very underpriced

I think your location should be something big to think about. I imagine in a post apocalyptic situation, a lot of people would die just fighting over basic supplies, whether it is theirs or not. Gangs would use their numbers as an advantage and start taking the necessary supplies from their owners, dead or alive. Although I think they'd prefer you dead. And considering that many people own dogs, they too could form packs and attack people over food.

Another big factor are the temperature changes where you live. If you live up north, where gang activity is less prominent, you would still end up having to fair through subzero temperatures and certainly below freezing.
If you live in a desert, good luck.

If civilization ceased entirely, it would seem rather bleak for most humans and I'll tell you why. The number of humans fighting for basic resources that have been produced to meet the demand, would no longer be in production, be it food, water and other types of survivalist items. They would kill each other over it.

reply to post by laiguana

I live in the desert. Upper desert in Arizona. I consider myself lucky to be here! I wouldn't want to live in the cities 20 miles away when food deliveries stop and people used to easy and fast food start the robbing of neighbors food!

temps of 110 in the summer to 35 in the winter are easily managed compared to those who will have to grab a bob and avoid most other people until they make it to their camp.
I have 1000 gallons of water in an underground tank and enough stores to last 2 people a minimum of a year. That is eating twice a day. Hopefully my root cellar will be complete before it is needed. I would rather store my food and supplies where they wouldn't be easily found.

We are bugging in and the desert is a fine place to do it.

reply to post by awakentired


Well that's good that you've prepared, but I wouldn't go around telling everyone in your neighborhood that.

reply to post by laiguana


yea that isnt a good idea. Nobody knows around me but I only have 5 neighbors in a square mile.

People who post in the Survival forum tend to overlook the downside of living in an isolated area . The downside is that if you are found by undesirables no one may be around to notice that you are missing . A case in point is the Kidnapping of Adolf Eichmann he was taken from a fairly(SP?) isolated area that contributed to a lack of witnesses seeing the incident . OK I know my example isn't perfect because in general Mossad agents are pros or even the best in the business , still it makes my point nicely .

Cheers xpert11.

As another note, when TSHTF its good to have backups, (preferably more than 1) in case your destination, current location etc are compromised in any way shape or form and you need to bug out. A lot of people probably won'thave a clear destination in mind if they need to bug out, or at least a realistic destination. Always be ready for Murphy to stick his nose in at the worst possible time and roll with the punches.

reply to post by JDBlack


plan for a zone defense.

have a safe area outside your home, where your family will meet in case the house catches on fire. The worst fires happen in the wee hours. Have rope ladders at upper floor windows, and maybe some cash buried in the garden.

have another spot, in a different direction (at a 90 degree angle from prevailing winds), more than 30 minutes from your home. Include some financial resources, in case the collapse isn't total ( the collapse is hardly ever total).

a third spot, in yet another direction, in other state. Include financial resources, plus things you'd need to start over from scratch without ever returning home again (spare eyeglasses, etc.).

Hopefully this thread is still atleast somewhat alive so that I will get a response back to this.

Personally I am not all about space and mobility "out in the wild" or something. And all of my stuff is not together on this but if I even had a hint of a warning to Sit-X and could get it organized last minute. I would be planning on traveling to my mom and dads cabin in Northern TN quite literally up a mountain. We have thought about the whole roaming roving mob theory you know "zombies." Lol. However in the area we are speaking of it is quite unlikely. Mobs of hungry tired people are not going to travel what takes a winding 20-30 minutes by car uphill to get to us, it's just very much one of the most difficult places to reach, especially by foot. It is 8hrs north of me and in any SHTF scenario that's where we'll trying to get to. So unless it or somewhere real close by is nuked that's where we're going.

That said my not bug out bag but literally bug out trunk will be comprised of atleast one case of bottled water if not the 2 or 3 of the 2.5 gallon containers with spickets on them, an emergency road kit (complete with flashlight, jumpers, screwdrivers, plyers, flares, glo sticks, etc...), one gun minimum with lots of ammo, fishing pole and a sack with assorted hooks, corks, spinner bait, extra reel, fishing line, etc..., full sized 10x15 tent, queen sized air mattress, sleeping bags, one 5 gallon sealed gas can since it will be inside the vehicle (don't want fumes while driving), a plastic cooler with one bag of ice in it to keep some perishables, various hearty nonperishable snacks, fire starter *such as a carbon strike* (this can easily go on a keychain and will not take up much space), maps of the area you are in and are traveling to and I mean local maps that way you can hit side roads if you have to in order to detour around checkpoints or obstructions.

As stupid as this sounds, make sure you have a real spare tire and a darn jack and lug wrench in case of a flat, you'd be surprised how many people don't have these or don't realize they don't have them because they own a used car and have never had to use them either because they've never had a flat or blowout or they have roadside assistance who they call everytime something happens.

I think that about covers it for me, I may think of some more and add to this list in the future. Btw I am a taxi driver at night and on weekends so if TSHTF I will have either a minivan or a 12 passenger 1 ton van at my disposal to "borrow" and "get the he!! out of dodge" with so cargo space is not a problem. Also it is policy to keep these vehicles full at all times once your shift is over so fuel getting to the place in question would not be an issue.

Look.I seriously thought about staying out, not wanting to sound too freakin cynical like usual, but...

The situation of being able to survive SHTF is useless IF you factor in that organized governments and troops will still be just fine, and actively working taking down areas one at a time. While a bunch of people hide in shelters and hope they'll survive, what? A few months longer before a drone whomps you? Or a bunker buster? If you're lucky, and they don't just say hi.

I mean you realize that the only REAL survival strategy is to start banding up, in ever larger groups, to fight for survival on a vast scale. There's China, there's our own government with the UN backing it all up. Oh yeah. It's raining uniforms baby. We better get into groups of millions and soon. A couple dozen vs. hundreds of thousands plus tech and super tech? Come on.

The only possible strategy to survive the next decade is to band together in some non-lovie dovie forigivy way...

and stop these crazy people.

Am I right? Or am I right?

Otherwise you're the survivors of a zombie apocalypse of thinking zombies who have weapons and oh yeah, it gets so much worse from there. FEMA is actually ramping in 50 states and you may be in one of those if you're American. This is for really real, and the bad guys will be endless if we don't stop them.

I guess most of us will go down firing our last rounds, throwing the weapon, pulling a real knife and going down fighting. It's tragic, but it's the jerks who ruin the world who made it so, and the people who still think everything is hunky dory and a college education is important! Those are the zombies. And they're hungry.

reply to post by thejlxc


While I agree to some degree with most of what you say. It may not immediately be pheasable in the beginning of a Sit X scenario especially if it happens within the next year, to just band together in the millions and immediately begin to fight. The honest hard truth is that FEMA, the spec ops, military, HLS, and possibly based on what you believe and have heard "foreign military troops" on US soil, these are all much more organized and well armed than we are with a substantial amount more training than we have. Yes they have tech but they do not have the ability to recon, spy, and/or monitor every single area of the continental US all at once or at all times. So it may be more likely that many people will band together immediately following Sit X and attack whoever and because of their haste will more than likely be killed violently and made an example of.

It would honestly be better if quiet pockets of resistance formed and then banded together at a later date when they were not expecting it. That way they can be lulled into thinking that they have won before the battle even begins. Strategy, training, training, training, for months or even years, then raiding supply lines for food and military grade equipment and then guerilla fighting tactics to pick at the enemy and weaken their resolve and morale etc...

Just my take on it. This has been discussed in depth with a family friend who happened to be with HLS I have ppl on the inside! HA

reply to post by DragonSpirit2


I totally understand how that approach can work. If, however, they already track us all, and they will simply know where the groups are, then they will just start wiping them out systematically. This is the doom upon us, maybe not tomorrow, but not too long after the economic collapse. Our window for stopping this in small numbers ended decades ago.

Not to scoff or skirt your theorizing my friend but I have spoken with a highly trained member of HLS, Army, Marines, and Navy. All family friends btw. Who atleast in some way agree with me that something is up conspiracy wise with how the government runs things and the events that have led us here all the way back from around 9/11 forward. The general consensus is that the Government as all mighty as they may seem cannot be everywhere at once. They cannot monitor everyone, everywhere, at all times. Also the problem with their way of tracking domestic terrorists, hippies, or "survivalists" is that they try to rely on paper trails like gun registration etc...if TSHTF scenario comes about, no one is going to be where their address is or was. Everyone will likely be gone to somewhere that may not even have any registered guns. The place where someone who is highly red flagged moves to might be little old granny's land that has never had a registered gun and is so far removed that you'd have a hell of a time finding it. If your paper trail ends with when you leave your home then it's very unlikely that the government or whoever will be able to "track" and apprehend or wipe out all of anybody, especially in the south. There are woods so deep out here (especially the ones where I'm gonna be) that they'll swallow an army and you'd never know they were there shy of a heat signature. However I'm not talking about hiding a whole army in the woods on the mountain, I'm just talking about hiding about 10-15 ppl some of which are children. Half of the land out behind my parents on the mountain belongs to old ppl or families that rarely leave their homes. So there's literally hundreds of miles of Mountain, Forest, Valleys, etc...accessible from where I'll be. If there is any intelligent resistance it will come later not immediately, maybe even years later.

The only way up this mountain is by vehicle or on foot which is not smart even for the military, I don't care if they bring a tank. It's kind of like the show Jericho, don't temp me I'll blow the bridge! We would blow the road and the side of the mountain off on top of the tank and/or whoever unwanted soul(s) were coming up, if need be. Last resort of course. There is no place to land any aircraft around here, it's too wooded. So good luck, this is the perfect place to defend an attack from. Even a bomb with enough warning would be able to be avoided by either jumping into the creek, and/or hiding in a ravine/valley nearby. And you can bet your bottom dollar that if we were to plan to mount a resistance against anyone we would have incoming intel and ways to track incoming enemies etc..

Just saying.....I swear I know I don't have all the answers but this is one scenario we've been over from a million different angles and literally spent countless thousands of hours discussing, planning, and researching.

Has anyone considered those Lifeboat bars? I have a few in my GOOD bag. They have a 5 year shelf life, good over 100 degrees and below freezing, high calorie. Not the best tasting but who cares in a survival situation, right? It'd give me easy, light weight calories on the run.