An opinion from a skeptic regarding recent posts (no trolling, no arguing intended )

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


Hmm, interesting because a certain other site that recently spammed a lot of ATSers on Twitter and Facebook came to mind.....

reply to post by Chamberf=6


Maybe you could start a thread on that subject but it would have to be in the Gray area of course
But Yes in reality this site must be being monitored by ill wishers - unless it is somehow exempt from how many other such sites are.
And there again - It is easy to get paranoid about other posters who may simply be delusional.
Discussion is key - Argument is not discussion of course and the rules of mutual repect and civiity do apply to this site so perhaps we should endevour to uphold those principles more.
No site is ever going to be a perfect model and if all were in agreement it would turn into a dogmatic cultish site.
There are so many gems of wise and wonderful thoughts on this site - maybe we should nurture those things and just plain ignore stupidity

reply to post by OldDragger


There is always the odd nutter out there with a hoax who claims they are speaking to Zelgarb from Zobulos 4 and we are to 'Change are ways, or suffer a fate worse, than a fate worse that Death'. These individuals end up making a mockery of the whole UFO phenomenon, making serious scientific study difficult. I'm not a Skeptic, and I'm not a 'True Believer' the subject of UFOs and Aliens has always interested me and I keep an open mind, but when somebody says they are in touch with Aliens and attaches it to some ill thought spiritual pseudo religious belief that they made up themselves in their parent attic, I tend to switch off_javascript:icon('')

Here's a reply I just posted on my own thread. It might clarify.

"What?
Did you even read the thread? I think not.
Please read my reply just a couple of posts up!
My thread, and ATS is full of believers insisting THERE IS ABSOLUTE PROOF!
Everything from cheesey blurry pics, to Billy Mier () to "because astronauts believe it", and every day there is a post about some new "proof"!
Did you read the thread about the new discovery of a possible, repeat possible, "earth like planet" being discovered? Did you read all the posts saying that was PROOF of aliens? Then making the logical plunge to PROOF aliens are visiting earth in space ships (UFO'S)!!!!!!! What do you think about that kind of wild association? Do you think that contributes to any understanding of UFO's in any way? If you are seriously interested in the subject, do you think it's just OK to start with taking for granted that UFO's are alien spaceships? READ THE THREAD!!!
How many times do people say, "everyone knows", "we all know" that life exists elsewhere and they are visiting and the government is covering it up!! The whole point is that you might BELIEVE that, but you don't KNOW IT!
Huge difference! Believers are fundamentalists, they have a set of dogmatic beliefs they filter everything through.
There is no rationality, no objective analysis, everything is interpreted to fit their forgone conclusion, that UFO's are alien spaceships! Why everybody knows it!!
If ATS wants to pursue TRUTH ( love the caps?), then don't just start your "research" with a preconcieved conclusion!
BELIEF is belief, knowledge is KNOWING! Without any proof whatsover, we can never know!! "

Heres the thread:

ATS thread

hahaha OD, that was a funny post - occasionally I will go off like that, I think it's time we start doing it more often.

I have raised these same issues, I have wrote threads pointing out some very large holes in the ufo and predictions “believers” and every time they fail to address pretty much anything I say.

The reason i have concluded is because we are not talking about an intellectual debate between those who believe in ufo’s and those who don’t in the way we might with 9/11. Rather we are talking about a religious believe, old dagger, what you are trying to do is comparable to a atheist trying to convince a priest that there is no God ,the intellectual debate has became a debate of theology. You will simply never win, this is only exacerbated by the fact that most “urologists” fail to recognise on this site that they have became a religion. For this reason I have to now show them the same respect I do to other religious orders, as patronising as that may sound. With that said I now take the view that I respect their views although I disagree with them and hold different religious beliefs from them. You and I don’t believe them but we should treat them the same as a person with different religious beliefs and not one with different intellectual beliefs.

The difference is that we know our religious views (or lack thereof) and most of them don’t.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Rather we are talking about a religious believe, old dagger, what you are trying to do is comparable to a atheist trying to convince a priest that there is no God ,the intellectual debate has became a debate of theology.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's OLD DRAGGER! Not dagger!
Almost my point!
I'm trying to point out the difference of faith from knowledge(proof).
I'm not trying so much to convince them that aliens aren't visiting as I am to realize it's simply their belief!
There is an important distinction between faith ( belief) and reason (knowledge) If a person can't grasp that distinction their faith AND their reason become confused and neither one is clear.
Believers constanly bemoan that science ignores UFO's , that it's a cover up! It's circular logic.
Science doesn't devote much time to UFO's because there is simply nothing to study! I can respect a belief, I respect religious faith, but after all it is faith! I don't respect a person that INSISTS in the face of reason, that THEIR belief is objective fact!

reply to post by kevinunknown

reply to post by OldDragger


In the immortal words of Hank Hill - "Yup."

You guys couldn't have put it better, seriously.

reply to post by I.C. Weiner


Thatnks mr weiner!
Really I wish people could tell the difference!
Oh well.
I;d rather be right than popular!

I understand where you are coming from although I often feel reaction is disguised under the label of sceptic.
I do not think all who post seemingly crazy and unprovable ideas do so in a deliberate manner.
I would rather adopt nurture than what comes across as chastisment.
Discussion so often falls into the area of argument.
I know some things can be so frustrating but if you are wiser be wiser

reply to post by artistpoet


What is more important? The idea or the posters feelings?
Does it do anyone much good to be smugly dogmatic, sure they know all about "aliens" and be completly wrong?
If it's hobby, fine!
If it's a real pursuit, that's something else.
This whole argument smacks of poitical correctness, less of actual education.

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by artistpoet

 

What is more important? The idea or the posters feelings?
Does it do anyone much good to be smugly dogmatic, sure they know all about "aliens" and be completly wrong?
If it's hobby, fine!
If it's a real pursuit, that's something else.
This whole argument smacks of poitical correctness, less of actual education.

A person is more important than any idea, that is my belief.
To judge another as smug and dogmatic helps no one - how do you suggest we deal with such ones?
Some people are not privvy to a high standard of education and so have to learn in other ways.
Political Correctness - oh so is nurture and guiding some one better than making them feel worthless.
I would say you are the one being political and wanting things your own way.

reply to post by artistpoet




Oh! now I get it!
ATS is MySpace!
Just another goofy social networking site!
A place to make each and every one of us feel like the special person they are!
We can't judge ideas! That might hurt some feelings! EVERYONE'S just the bestest on ATS!

reply to post by OldDragger


dude, most of my friends are ur age, i'm 34 - hippie parents....just walk away, take a deep breath, a nice swim, smoke a doober, relax bro. I have to do that ritual every day after checking this site. We all need a little break.

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by artistpoet

 

Oh! now I get it!
ATS is MySpace!
Just another goofy social networking site!
A place to make each and every one of us feel like the special person they are!
We can't judge ideas! That might hurt some feelings! EVERYONE'S just the bestest on ATS!

No don't be silly - ATS is ATS -
I would not know what occurs on My Space - do not subscribe to it - it is not my cup of tea so to speak
Every one is special and that is the truth thats why I speak of nurture
Try responding to people instead of judging them if that is what you do
I agree truthfullness is the best policy but there are ways of putting ones truth without being hurtfull
I offer to agree to disagree- can you accept that?