Bigfoot/Sasquatch Fact or Fiction?

Bigfoot/Sasquatch Fact or Fiction?

While reading through some of the many older Bigfoot threads here at ATS and I kept reading over and over again the same tired old arguments as to why the [Patterson film] in particular and the whole Bigfoot/Sasquatch belief is fake. I had replied on many of those threads with information of my own and why I thought it was real. I'll be posting many of the arguments that were put forward and will try to answer some of them here in this thread.

I can't prove that it exists, all I can do is provide you with what I've found through my own amateur research.
As always enjoy...

Argument #1

The Patterson footage is obviously fake. It's a guy running around in a monkey suit wearing a old style football helmet with fur glued to it!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c95f162b3972.gif[/atsimg]
The above image is an animated .gif I made in photoshop. It is an artists rendition overlapping a still from the now infamous Patterson film. It in itself does not prove a thing. It should however give people a slightly different perspective on how to view the Patterson film. Now that there is computer photo enhancement software available the idea of a helmet covered in fur does seem less likely IMO.



Argument #2

Look at the bottom of it's foot. When a still image is shown it's obviously a white boot sole. Who has white colored feet?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f9b83e65b424.jpg[/atsimg]
At first when confronted by this argument I had to admit that it does make a rather compelling point. I like that picture, although it causes an issue with some over the "Foot Padding" It does show a very powerfully built creature just look at the neck, shoulders and arms. The person wearing a supposed "Suit" would had to have been a massive body builder to fill it so tightly. They make gorilla suits but nothing along those lines. Regarding the "White" feet theory, While vacationing at the beach some time ago I noticed something rather odd about humans. We tend to have very pale soles of our feet. It's walking through light colored sand/dirt barefoot how would one expect it to look?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ecaa6d996ccc.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e645f74e57ce.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b5346c9ed294.jpg[/atsimg]



Argument #3

You folks just ignore the truth even if it's right there in front of you. Now take a deep breath and get over it....IT'S FAKE....THAT BIGFOOT FILM IS FAKE. Look up the picture yourself!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/04506bf50843.gif[/atsimg]

Simply stating that it's fake seems to be the norm. I say let's look at the film. Why not? The more technology has advanced and used to analyze the footage the more details it seems come to light.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/02c993623444.gif[/atsimg]

Look at the way it turns its head like a gorilla not a human. Its chin is set into it's chest and it has to turn its whole upper torso to look back at Patterson also look at the length of it's forearm they are huge and much longer than a man in an ape suit would IMO.




Argument #4

How did Patterson sneak up and captured film of Bigfoot? Why is the video such a poor quality? It should have captured a better recording then that crappy footage. He should have used better equipment!

I don't think the equipment has anything to do with it really. Patterson went out on horse back. The horses could have masked their odors and Bigfoot may have not noticed them approaching. They were not in a loud pick up truck or an ATV which is what many people do these days they drive or ride motorized vehicles around making a ruckus looking for Bigfoot.

If it is closer to a human than an ape then it thinks more like a man and would be smarter than say a bear or any other wild animal and maybe and this is of course speculation on my part, It may be able to think and decide to avoid humans.

The verdict was out for me until there was some motion stabilizing software used. The thing that makes me think this is real is that if they are going to fake a "Bigfoot" why make a fake "Female" Bigfoot. When nobody at the time could tell from the footage that in fact it's female?

Again Look at the way it turns it's head. Note that it has to turn it's whole upper body because it's head sits low on it's shoulders like an ape with it's chin in it's chest like a gorilla and not like a man in a ape suit.

Not only that. Look at the forearms in the images they appear to be longer than a normal mans more like an ape and look at the shoulders and forearms on this one here. Much too long and muscular for a human. I think it's a distant cousin of Gigantopithecus blacki. Look at this thing it's built like a tank and it's only a female.

Does the Patterson footage show a female Bigfoot?

Could it simply be a distant cousin of Gigantopithecus
still alive and hanging around out there?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/03ea2488503e.jpg[/atsimg]
Gigantopithecus

Gigantopithecus is an extinct genus of ape that existed from roughly one million years to as recently as three-hundred thousand years ago, in what is now China, India, and Vietnam, placing Gigantopithecus in the same time frame and geographical location as several hominid species. The fossil record suggests that the Gigantopithecus blacki species were the largest apes that ever lived, standing up to 3 metres (9.8 ft) and weighing up to 540 kilograms (1,200 lb).

I'm next going to post some Audio recording of supposedly Bigfoot/Sasquatch howls. They are what they are. I'll not vouch for their legitimacy. However it is another bit of circumstantial evidence IMO.

Enjoy



Finally, in the end there is no real solid proof for the Big/Sasquatch case but hopefully we can get some new arguments instead of the tired old ones. It makes for a much more interesting discussion when the obvious is removed. I purposely left out images of the plaster casts of giant feet. We have all seen them and the following videos cover that topic and more.

Sasquatch Bigfoot: Legend Meets Science

So in the end what is your verdict?
Is there a possibility of a Bigfoot/Sasquatch running around in the Pacific Northwest and elsewhere in the world?
What do you think?

I actually really like this thread though I am not much of a believer in bigfoot.

One question I have for you regarding bigfoots um foot. Where are the toes? I can get past the light color, in fact I think you could also argue that the camera is possibly making it look much lighter than it really is, but I would expect to see toes.

I live in WA so I have always been interested in this topic but the profound lack of any concrete evidence for so long makes me think it's just a superstition. I guess I should review all the material before I say no evidence, I'll be back later tonight. I'll make you a deal though, when I go hiking I'll keep the lens cap off.

Must admit the boobs surprised me.

You know what they say, never say never. But I doubt it, Slay. Seriously. As I read somewhere the other day, wouldn't a skeleton at least have turned up somewhere by now?

Wouldn't they be at least dumpster-diving, or applying for food stamps?

On the Patterson film i am torn. The simple fact that the participants called it a hoax is too hard to overcome. But when you stabilize the footage, details emerge that make it look like there is no way it is a fake.

The big, fat, budonkadonk butt....that would be hard to emulate. The hind quarters seem to work perfectly well, nothing like someone wearing a suit.

The boobs. I never noticed them before. And they bounce and swing. Why include that detail?

And the simple fact that the biology looks right regarding the head/neck, the forearms, and the shoulders.

If that is a man, he is exceptionally large and well built. Moreso than even Arnold Schwarzenegger was, and he was considered freakish at this time.

If it weren't for the admission of fakery, i would have no doubt it was real.

Always a possibility, I have always thought there may be some truth to it, certainly more truth than any countless number of things people swear by but have less circumstantial evidence on.
Many a new species are found all the time so it's a possibilty they could of alluded capture until now, especially if they display intelligence.
So basically I wouldn't say a certain No they don't exist but couldn't say they do either for sure.

S&F

reply to post by SLAYER69


man thats alot of work

but bigfoot is a myth!


in the video mr bigfoot turns and looks right into the camera last time i checked how can animals or mammals for that fact do anything we want whenever we want.


i do really think its a dude in a suit who just made the suit and video and tracks to get attention.

and his movements they are more like a humans and nothing like that of any animal or ape i have ever seen.



me i dont beleive in bigfoot im more inclined to believe in the yeti

The idea of Big Foot being alive and well and roaming around the West (still today) is something that I really want to believe in. For all of the reasons that have been brought up time and again as to why it just can't be, the logical part of me agrees and the myth can then be explained and accepted as a myth... But... The myths originated somewhere and for some reason...

Add to this a very real and believable story told to me by someone I trust without question/doubt and it continues to prove to me that there (though we do not like to admit it) things about this planet we call home, that we do not know and cannot explain. This will (probably) continue to be one of them, for every bit of "evidence" that points to his reality, there is another that points to him being a figment of our (human) imagination...

There is a part of me that will always want to believe it is more than a myth and that same part of me hopes that if he is/was real and is still around, that he continues to elude us as he has been doing all this time.

reply to post by neo96

me i dont beleive in bigfoot im more inclined to believe in the yeti

What's the difference besides the locations?


@Slayer: I have to say that in the stabilized version it definitely looks like its thigh muscle "bounces" like a creature of great weight -- or at least heavy footfall.

Great thread. Thankyou.

Ive been a believer since the days of the Paterson video myself, and the stabilization, breasts and gait all lead me to believe that it would be next to impossible to fake that, at that time, or even today.

reply to post by Chamberf=6


stalk much eh?


did i say i actually beleived in the yeti? i said im more inclined to believe.

reply to post by neo96


All I did was ask what the difference was....I didn't say anything about what you believe.

reply to post by SLAYER69


i'm all for anything sasquatch related....

I have a tough time following the Patterson film...I like it...yes its compelling but was an admitted hoax...but as others have said its almost too perfect..even for a fake...I am hesitant..or on the fence on that one.


i follow a newer theory that has sasquatch as a marine/river animal...much like a beaver...spending 90+% of its life using creeks and streems for feeding and migration movements following a seasonal crop...ie blue berries...one of many examples..


As for those, that think there should be a skeleton....how many deer skeletons, or bear bones, have been found...almost "0"...bones are a calcium rich, tastey salty bar of nutrition...mice, vermin, coytoes and many other small critters will break bones down in a matter of days!

reply to post by abrowning


I made no claims this time around. Mostly just asked questions. I too believe it's possible. I agree I wont be completely 100% convinced until we see a live specimen and or a skeleton.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
If it weren't for the admission of fakery, i would have no doubt it was real.

That has always bugged me.
I'll post a link to the "Admission" and let the readers make up their own minds

with respect to skeletons people tend to forget weathering is a big factor in that

bones left outside will degrade rapidily over a period of time

however bones have been found in caves that have been dated to thousands of years old

lets not forget that.

Cool detailed thread Slayer....S&F

This is a topic that has puzzled me alot..... My initial thoughts are fiction, reason being is that in the region this thing is said to be found isnt exactly in uncharted territory, so why hasnt there been more sighting of it.
Surely there have been teams that have explored these regions purposely looking for it, its big, so it needs to hunt alot, forcing it into the open alot of its time.....
I believe it may be mythical, a legend stirred up by a nieve generation some time ago ..

An excellent thread that shows the arguments for Sasquatch. The Patterson Film is one of the best pieces of evidence as it was made long before digital technology. The sounds made by those unknown creatures still give me goosebumps when I hear them.

Until a Sasquatch is captured or a real body found, I don't think there will ever be any movement from those who think it exists and those who do not.

Thank you for this most superior thread on the subject.

Originally posted by scubagravy
Cool detailed thread Slayer....S&F

This is a topic that has puzzled me alot..... My initial thoughts are fiction, reason being is that in the region this thing is said to be found isnt exactly in uncharted territory, so why hasnt there been more sighting of it.
Surely there have been teams that have explored these regions purposely looking for it, its big, so it needs to hunt

Well supposedly we get many more sightings in areas we humans go the most. This map below shows some of the hundreds if not thousands of sightings. We wont get much sightings where humans are not and traverse the least though.

Source
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d1a4ff75d3b3.jpg[/atsimg]

Thousands of people have reported seeing a creature with the discriptions of Bigfoot. Witnesses often report seeing the creature and discribe it with many similarities and in similar locations. Bigfoot reports are generally in areas with low human population and in places that have an annual rainfall in excess of 20 inches.

Experts say that eyewitness reports are very unreliable and should be treated with caution. It is often thought that eyewitnesses could be mistaking a bear standing on its hind legs for Bigfoot. The majority of sightings occur where bears do exist. Experts say that 70 to 80 percent of Bigfoot sightings are not real and that most are either a hoax or a misidentified animal.

An intriguing topic and one I have pondered before. I'm glad that this subject is still being investigated. Perhaps in time we will learn the truth of this mysterious creature.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Here is the allegation that it is fake. As with the original post. I cannot confirm the validity of the claims for a HOAX either.

Hoax allegations

In 2002, Philip Morris of Morris Costumes (a North Carolina-based company offering costumes, props and stage products) claimed that he made a gorilla costume that was used in the Patterson film. Morris says he discussed his role in the hoax privately in the 1980s but first admitted it publicly on August 16, 2002, on Charlotte, North Carolina, radio station WBT-AM.[47] Morris claims he was reluctant to expose the hoax earlier for fear of harming his business: giving away a performer's secrets, he said, would be widely regarded as disreputable.[48]

Morris said that he sold an ape suit to Patterson via mail-order in 1967, thinking it was going to be used in what Patterson described as a "prank"[49] (ordinarily the gorilla suits he sold were used for a popular side-show routine that depicted an attractive woman changing into a gorilla.) After the initial sale, Morris said that Patterson telephoned him asking how to make the "shoulders more massive"[50] and the "arms longer."[51] Morris says he suggested that whoever wore the suit should wear wide football-type shoulder pads and hold sticks in his hands within the suit. His assertion was also printed in the Charlotte Observer.[52]