ADHD doesnt exist

reply to post by paxnatus


Society depending - you're quite right...

A few factors include media, diet, drugs and social environments... but yes it exists.

reply to post by paxnatus


You will find that most people who say "it does not exist" will stick to that, no matter what. Either that, or they will not return to the thread to hold their hans up and say "i was wrong"

I think its only a matter of time before evidence of adhd/add will come along that no one can dispute.

The problem i have with the thread title is the ignorance and arragonce that comes with it.

here's something short and sweet for those of us that have a difficult time with the reading:


interesting - that it does show that similar/shared symptoms are likely the result of different causes

reply to post by mr-lizard


Perhaps this article will at least open some closed minds. I doubt it though; they will just attack the study and the source. Typical of those with beliefs based on emotion rather than facts; they seem much more comfortable embracing ignorance, than admitting they are capable of being wrong.

Don't Blame Hyperactivity on Bad Parenting: Genes Are at Fault, Study Says

www.bloomberg.com...

Don’t blame attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder on poor parenting or excess candy. A study suggests it’s all about genes.

Hyperactive children have a larger proportion of small DNA segments that are either duplicated or missing, according to a study published online today by the medical journal The Lancet.

The findings may help remove the stigma attached to the disorder, said Anita Thapar of Cardiff University School of Genetics, the study’s lead author.

“Some people say ‘it’s not a real disorder’ or ‘it’s the result of bad parenting’ and parents and children can encounter much stigma because of this,” Thapar said at a press conference in London yesterday. “So finding this direct genetic link to ADHD should help clear this misunderstanding.”

reply to post by OurManInGlasgow


This is one of the most ILL INFORMED post I have ever read. Are you actually saying psychiatrist and the medical community agree that a chemical imbalance in the brain, does not exist?

Based on what? Here is something I would like you and skyfloating and anyone else who believes ADHD or all mental illness is a made up malady to answer. Why when given medication for ADHD do people get better? Why do their symptoms abate? Why can you see a child who is virtually unable to learn due to severe lack of concentration begin making straight A's when placed on medication to treat the symptoms of ADHD?

Why do you see a person whom is Bipolar begin to function and their mood stabilize? Why do you see a person who is so severely depressed, sleeps all day, can't even take a shower, begin to laugh again, sleep at normal times, succeed at work, begin to enjoy life?

Because it is a proven scientific fact that seretonin, you know that made up neurotransmitter, in your brain, and its opposite, dopamine, another figment of our imagination, control mood, sleep, ability to concentrate, ability to regulate emotions, appetite, ability to focus, ability to learn and retain information. It is based on pure chemistry. And the most accurate test you can take, is trial someone on meds! If there symptoms improve, then the illness is real. Psychiatric drugs will not work if it has no problem to treat.

For all those on ADHD medications, stimulants, if the meds don't calm you down and slow your brain down long enough for you to retain what you are being taught, then you don't have ADHD alone. If you become more hyper and feel as you are on speed, then ADHD has not been properly diagnosed, I would look into further evaluation.

If you are put on an antidepressant and they have tried several and you feel no better, then depression alone is not your problem. Usually in cases of severe depression, a mood stabilizer is needed to help lift the depression.

And finally, the year is 2010!! It is hard enough for the people who suffer mental illness to manage and try to live a somewhat normal life. They do not need you pointing the finger at them, and ostracizing them further!! With your attitude towards people who are suffering tremendously it is no wonder the stigma still remains. Let's hope you are a loved one never has a problem in this area. I would hate to see the further damage your attitude would cause!!

Spend a day with a schizophrenic, or a bipolar person off their meds then comeback and speak to something you have some knowledge about based on first hand experience. If you then say mental illness does not exist, I would suggest you go for a psychiatric evaluation yourself and seek treatment for your denial!!

Pax

reply to post by paxnatus


You might as well bang your head against a brick wall to be honest. Like i said before, most of the people who said ADHD/ADD does not exist, would not even touch this thread again, esp to say sorry, i was wrong. But thats the kind of people we are dealing with. They have so much pride, that to admit they were wrong would seriously effect them.

reply to post by paxnatus


a star - for your entire post

Why when given medication for ADHD do people get better? Why do their symptoms abate? Why can you see a child who is virtually unable to learn due to severe lack of concentration begin making straight A's when placed on medication to treat the symptoms of ADHD?

For all those on ADHD medications, stimulants, if the meds don't calm you down and slow your brain down long enough for you to retain what you are being taught, then you don't have ADHD alone. If you become more hyper and feel as you are on speed, then ADHD has not been properly diagnosed, I would look into further evaluation.

I called out these two bits because they are significant - at least to me

I'd like to add to this - sleep disorders are often associated with ADD

how is it then that speed actually helps these individuals to go to sleep?

:-)

it's interesting though, isn't it - how people with absolutely no experience with something can be so sure of their position?

but as with anything - given enough time, research and experience - eventually these mysteries unravel and new attitudes develop

ignorance is eventually denied

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


ADHD is theorized to be due to the way the brain develops. Certain parts develop slower than usual, while the motor cortex develops faster. Thus, you have a child who is unable to pay attention and lacks the control to keep their motor cortex in check. What these stimulants do is increase activity in these areas that are slower to develop, causing them to behave as they normally would.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Star for you, that was a pretty nice video but the ending is what caused me to reply to your post [not to you specifically but in generally to the video itself]. As one who is on the medication I find it to be an interesting that it's mainly on behavior that they will give approval for these drugs the likes of which are dangerous. They should probably change the testing procedure a bit as the medication can be a dangerous thing.

reply to post by Xcalibur254

ADHD is theorized to be due to the way the brain develops. Certain parts develop slower than usual, while the motor cortex develops faster.

I wish there was more of this type of information in the thread

much of this is still theory - even with this new announcement

but it does help to show that it's not as simple as drug companies trying to create disorders so they can sell more drugs

:-)

there is some science involved - after all

reply to post by Gigantea Rosa

They should probably change the testing procedure a bit as the medication can be a dangerous thing.

yes - and I think there are plenty of reasons to argue against the drugs

even though I'm not against them, I do understand - it's not candy

these are kids we're talking about - still developing

treating adults and treating children are not the same thing - so I still want to argue that maybe it's better to change our approach to teaching - realizing that all children don't learn the same way and a cookie cutter approach isn't the answer

I don't think anyone can say what the best treatment is right now - they have yet to determine exactly what it is they're even looking at - how many different conditions they might be dealing with

the drugs work well in some cases - not so well in others - are the benefits worth the risks?

I know that research and time will eventually make it possible for kids that can't learn or perform well now to have a better shot at all that in their future

so, discoveries like this are great news - one more piece of the puzzle found

reply to post by paxnatus


Very well put. I believe it is a learning style, more than a disorder, but children who learn this way are put into environments that aren't right for them, and they feel out of place, and stupid. Nothing could be further from the truth, they are little geniuses, my son was diagnosed with ADD, and possibly Aspberger's (with Einstein and Bill Gates). When he's interested in something, nothing can stop him and that's ALL he talks about. You're also right about the impulsiveness, my son has to have patterns, or he freaks out.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by Gigantea Rosa

 

They should probably change the testing procedure a bit as the medication can be a dangerous thing.

yes - and I think there are plenty of reasons to argue against the drugs

even though I'm not against them, I do understand - it's not candy

these are kids we're talking about - still developing

treating adults and treating children are not the same thing - so I still want to argue that maybe it's better to change our approach to teaching - realizing that all children don't learn the same way and a cookie cutter approach isn't the answer

I don't think anyone can say what the best treatment is right now - they have yet to determine exactly what it is they're even looking at - how many different conditions they might be dealing with

the drugs work well in some cases - not so well in others - are the benefits worth the risks?

I know that research and time will eventually make it possible for kids that can't learn or perform well now to have a better shot at all that in their future

so, discoveries like this are great news - one more piece of the puzzle found

The thing I don't get is the test itself and although it may be different from person to person mine just didn't make any sense what so ever. Simply utilizing a computer and clicking a button when you see a dot, apparently I clicked it to fast and doing a bit of questionnaire with my parents as well as myself. The doctor then came to the conclusion that ADHD medication is perfect for me! I guess it's because of that I find it interesting, mainly because a little kid could go click happy on it and some things could be said in the midst of the interview making the child right for it.

Though I do agree great news, just the current process should be tweaked a little bit if they are going to hand the children something as powerful as the little pill.

It is much simpler to regard ADHD as a frontal lobe syndrome whose onset is in childhood and often improves by adulthood.
en.wikipedia.org...
Sometimes a history of mild head injury or severe infection may be significant in contributing to ADHD.
Use of alcohol or illicit drugs during pregnancy may also contribute.
The effects of the reduction in corporal punishment, anti-inflammatory omega-3 essential fatty acids and exercise combined with increasing use of the TV, Internet and increasing intake of pro-inflammatory omega-6 essential fatty acids has not been thoroughly analysed yet.
There is predictably increasing evidence of genetic abnormalities and immunological abnormalities suggesting an abnormal immune response to a substance e.g. infection in a genetically predisposed individual as with most psychiatric diseases.
As with most frontal lobe syndromes there is an increased risk of illicit substance use. This is because nicotine, alcohol, narcotics, amphetamine and coc aine all cause beneficial changes in neuron structure and in particular the proliferation of dendritic spines.
Most psychiatric diseases are now being found to have
1. Genetic abnormalities
2. Immunological abnormalities
3. Structural frontal lobe abnormalities -
a. On autopsy (dendritic spine loss)
b. Functional MRI scans - over or under frontal lobe activity.
It is not rocket science anymore but doctors persist in only using the chemical model of psychiatric disease for which there is minimal proof of chemical imbalance.
Most of the psychiatric drugs have anti-inflammatory properties and promote dendritic spine growth e.g.
Anti-psychotics - clozapine
Anti-depressants - Prozac
Indeed drugs which reduce the immune response are being used in trials in most psychiatric diseases - this one is for the use of immunosuppression in autism from the Neuroscience Institute, Sacramento Medical Center, Sacramento, California this year requesting more trials using more patients:
imfar.confex.com...
However it will take a long time perhaps even a generation for most doctors to change their views on the purely chemical model of psychiatric disease.
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by dr treg


It's interesting that you bring up the immune system. About a half a year ago, I stopped eating processed foods of any kind, and adopted the 'Paleo diet'. I eat only lean meat, lots of fruits and vegetables, some tubers, and nuts (not peanuts, which are beans), and oils lke canola and olive. I cut out completely dairy, grains of any kind, beans, refined sugars, and any processed foods. I used to have asthma, general anxiety disorder, stomach pain, etc. After about 2 months, all of those things disappeared completely. The premise of the diet, for those who aren't aware, is that we evolved to eat only what could be hunted and gathered. Before 10,000 years ago, when agriculture and animal husbandry came on the scene, diseases like cancer, diabetes, asthma, and other immune system issues were almost non-existent. In hunter gatherer tribes today, they are also extremely rare. Many of the foods we eat today may be causing our own immune systems to attack us, since alot of those foods contain proteins that our bodies weren't meant to ingest, some people have acute reactions, like those with lactose intolerance, and gluten allergies. But I believe none of us are meant to eat those things, and the symptoms of the immune system attacking itself may be different in everybody...

I can't believe this thread is created by a moderator...

Thank you for letting me know I don't exist, I was beginning to wonder.

I would "debate" about this, but I have no desire to prove my life to this ignorance.

Anyway, it doesn't matter I don't exist!

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Everybodys talking about the big "Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity-Disorder" that has now become a "worldwide Epidemic". If a child cant sit still all day, if it cant suppress its natural urge to play and move, the child is labelled "mentally ill". If a child is unwilling to be indocrinated by boring and useless information all day it is labeled "mentally ill". And then medicine is prescribed, parents asked to accompany their child to a therapist, weird treatments developed and Billions of Dollars wasted because the child wont CONFORM to the collectivist indoctrination-centers we call "school".

I believe it exists, because for example functional brain imaging studies show that it does. The question is whether it is a true psychiatric problem or whether it is more akin to a hyper and inattentive dog who needs behavior modification. Functional brain imaging shows differences in persons with ADHD. And cognitive remediation could be the potential remedy if in fact ADHD is not primarily organic/psychiatric in origin. In other words, the way the person's mind functions needs to be adjusted over a period of months through a disciplined program.

Some parents of very small children make no effort to have their children behave or pay attention. They're the kids you see running around at Church or other functions uncontrolled and screaming while you look at your spouse and say, "Why do their parents let them do that?"

In other words, just as studies show personality can become fixed by first grade, so too can other behavioral characteristics which are difficult to reverse without a specific and enforced program of behavior modification through cognitive remediation, which would probably take months to accomplish.

But psychiatry is focused on profit and drugs, with the field itself being largely fraudulent. For example, a number of recent reviews have found that antidepressants probably don't even work for most people, and that they're just getting a placebo effect that's been covered up with careful study methodology and selective publication of positive studies while hiding other studies failing to show efficacy.

Since I feel that I should give a proper response, here it is:

...If a child cant sit still all day, if it cant suppress its natural urge to play and move, the child is labelled "mentally ill". If a child is unwilling to be indocrinated by boring and useless information all day it is labeled "mentally ill".

SOURCE????

Look at this, seriously! Are you really saying that this happens all the time? You sure didn't point out how RARE this happens, of course sensationalism is well received around these parts, I should know!

Since I do not have the data on hand, neither did you obviously, I will use myself as an example. (Though you already poisoned the well, calling me a deadbeat and all. Great job!)

"If a child can't sit still all day, if it can't suppress its natural urge to play and move. the child is labelled "mentally ill"."
Well, before we go further, let's give the reader an idea of what ADD/HD really is; versus this twisted idea.

Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder[1] (ADHD or AD/HD or ADD) is a neurobehavioral[2] developmental disorder.[3] It is primarily characterized by "the co-existence of attentional problems and hyperactivity, with each behavior occurring infrequently alone" and symptoms starting before seven years of age.

en.wikipedia.org...

As you can see, the OPost mentions SYMPTOMS of the disorder. Here, to put it into perspective:

"If a child sneezes once during the day, if it can't keep from coughing. The child is sick."
EDIT--"has a cold" changed to "is sick"

Symptoms do NOT equal disorder (or disease)

How ridiculous is that?

As you can see, VERY! Though not in the way you were trying to shove.

If you show a kid "suffering" ADHD something interesting and relevant, he/she will get interested.

WRONG

If I am busy with something, and you try talking to me I won't even hear you. Attention Deficit, you know the first part of the disorder. that is what is going on here.

I have had people talk to me in upwards of 20 minutes before I hear anything. If I am busy working/playing on something, I will lose ALL track of time.

So, here I sit busy and you are going to try to show me something? I might as well be blind, good luck.

If you let the kid move a little more, play a little more, enjoy a little more, it will get relaxed.

Here you go calling kids "it" again. What the heck? Do you even have a child? Do you know how "it" works?

Maybe a bit less ultra-violent-video-games and rapid-movement movies for the six year old.

WAIT A SEC!

So it isn't some "fake disorders" fault, it's those mean video games!

"They better not pretend to be cops shooting robbers in that video game! That's violent! Send 'em outside to play "cops and robbers" it's different somehow."

Which crutch is "okay" to use?

Maybe a bit less sugar for the youngster. And get some Humor into the classroom for goodness sake.

There, these are some good tips for ANY child. Of course they would work for an ADD/HD kid by proxy. Though, I am beginning to think you know this.

As a teacher you need to look at the kid before you look at the Schoolbook. Too many teachers are underpaid and undereducated, staring at books and curricula instead of making a heart-to-heart connection with the kids.

I think they should pay the kids to go to school, like a job. That would have sparked my interested, quite a bit. Instead they strip you of your rights, and cram you in a box with bullies and power hungry adults. It's no wonder kids "snap" don a trench-coat, and "teach their own lessons".

Its not active, energetic and playful kids that need curing, its the deadbeats who think it is an illness to be alive.

Jeez, I am a deadbeat before I even got to respond. This is what passes for moderator opinion around here? I hope you don't ban us "deadbeat" ADD/HD folks.

(You attacked me first, I am many nasty things but a deadbeat is not one of them.)

Frontal lobe function does seem to be in place by a young age.
www.livescience.com...
This is in accordance with the Jesuit motto "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man," which is based on a quotation by Francis Xavier.
en.wikipedia.org...
I remember the story of how children at state school are asked to describe Napoleon`s campaigns but children at private school were asked to imagine themselves as being Napoleon thus reinforcing superiority.

I worked in a school once, and there was a boy there that had this "disorder."

When they tested him, they found out he was a borderline "genius."