Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

reply to post by Kram09


...But these gas chambers werent built to contain the gas like gas chambers are. Wouldnt the gassing kill the guards as well? But those windows werent 'gas tight'(for loss of a better word)..I have to find the article I read awhile back. A gentleman who builds gas chambers for penetentiaries said theres no way the germans couldve gassed the jewish people and survived themselves...gotta locate it...

[edit on 8/7/10 by Demetre]

reply to post by Demetre


Once the remaining Nazis upped sticks and left so to speak, the vast majority of the prisoners were so weak and malnourished they couldn't just run off out of the camp.

Many were killed beforehand, others were just left to their own devices and to just die basically.

First off, the word "Jewish" is properly capitalized. Please show at least that little bit of respect.

Second, numbers aside, were the atrocities known to have happened any worse if they were done on just 600 instead of the estimated 6 million? There were groups of people, chosen for several reasons, who were deprived of their worldly goods, transported in cattle cars to camps which did not have any amenities as showers or toilets, tattooted like cattle, housed in cramped quarters which spread disease, given little food, and worked to death.
How can this not be seen as a crime against humanity, if even to just 60 people?
What would be the price paid by someone for doing such a thing today to just 6 people?
Or even only one?

Supposed they only shaved heads at one camp. That makes it okay? And removing their clothes for prison garb to control disease only works if the clothing given was kept clean. These camps had laundries? The same would apply to bedding, and sewage. Were clean conditions met at these camps? If even 10 people died as a result of a "disinfectant", why was it okay to continue using it? If disease was a problem, where were the medical staff to combat it? These camps had hospitals? What is considered to be a healthy weight, and which camps supplied enough of a healthy diet to maintain that weight?
How many mass graves were dug? No one really knows that. How many tons of cremains were disposed of? How many people were needed to produce those cremains?
And most telling for me, why take the children? Did the camps have schools, health care, good diet, etc for children? Were children enemies of the state for anything other than their heritage?


When do you think that makes any of it less horrible?

reply to post by Demetre


I don't really understand your first sentence to be honest.

I'm pretty sure they were hermetically sealed rooms. The gas chambers that is.

reply to post by Kram09


But if you read the articles there are prisoners that did survive the march and werent killed. If the germans were interested in killing them why were they released/transfered?

reply to post by Demetre

No the fumes where heavier than air, and the viewing ports were usually close to the ceiling. They studied how it would all work, and like most things you expect to use as for disposal of something, only the minimum necessary work was done. They were very systematic about it all. And the had to make it look like a shower room, to maintain their charade.

Originally posted by Demetre
[edit on 8/7/10 by Demetre]



Just realized you posted the same link?? The site you're linking says they were transferred?? Oooops, fail.


[edit on 8/7/10 by Demetre][edit on 8/7/10 by Demetre]

[edit on 8/7/10 by Demetre]

You should read the whole article then before jumping to conclusions. Priority Inmates were put on the death march; some weren't, some escpaed, some hid, some played dead. Are you being disingenious or did you just not properly read the article?

How could there be survivors to tell their stories if they werent transfered or released?

What's with this all-or-nothing-at-all kind of thinking? Not every single concentration camp inmate was marched to death - the people who were going to be killed anyways (mainly jews, also some others) were marched to death. Some Kapos and inmates with preferential treatment didn't Some hid. Some fled. It was total chaos.

It did not happen in a uniform matter. Every camp has it's own unique story of the last days. Auschwitz was not one single facility but an area containing many seperate facilities. Many of the forced-labor inmates weren't marched to death but simply abandonded. There is no general rule as to who met which faith in the last days but generally the jews and dissidents were especially selected for death marches - other weren't that diligently included.

I don't know where the contradiction you are hinting at is. They did not have the capability do kill EVERY SINGLE camp inmate in every camp before the allies arrived. Did you honestly expect them to do so? It was a very chaotic time and through the whole of 1945 the picture gets very complex and individual for each of the camps - even for the camps within an area sharing a name such as Auschwitz.


And about the whole Gas chamber thing. What you fail to notice is that the gas chamber in Auschwitz is a model replica. It was never used and was never intended to be operational - it is there solely to illustrate. Did you honestly expect them to build an operational gas chamber for the sake of historical accuracy??

[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

reply to post by Kram09


Sorry, that sentence does leave a lot to be desired.. This article says that before they had ventilation units the doors had to be opened to 'air out', wouldnt that kill any germans. Too many discrepancies for me to believe everything happened th way they say???
www.scrapbookpages.com...

reply to post by Demetre


I can't see the link right now.

I'm having trouble with my internet. But I'll look at it as soon as I can.

As for the questions about the gas chamber...I'm not sure. Maybe someone else will be able to answer that.

Same goes for the question about transfering/releasing prisoners.

I wouldn't exactly say the Nazis "released" any prisoners.

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


My original question was...if the germans were so bent on exterminating the jewish why weren't all of them killed right after word of liberation. It plainly says the were transfered via marches to german camps?? No all or nothing. I just stating the contradictions. It doesnt make sense why they werent killed, that they were released/transfered?

I know many in my family who would beg to differ. 6 or 6 million it happened... Yes it did...
But you did not get all of us hey?

Better luck next time xxxx

Originally posted by Demetre
reply to post by NichirasuKenshin

 

My original question was...if the germans were so bent on exterminating the jewish why weren't all of them killed right after word of liberation. It plainly says the were transfered via marches to german camps?? No all or nothing. I just stating the contradictions. It doesnt make sense why they werent killed, that they were released/transfered?

What do you mean by "word of liberation"??????

Not every camp had crematory and gassing facilities. They did not possess the means to kill EVERY SINGLE inmate in all concentration camps. There were literally hundreds of camps. They did not have the means.

As I said high-prioirity inmates where sent on death marches to the west. This was done in the utmost haste just before the Russians arrived. They had no time to plan or execute a kill them all scenario. They took who they could and they headed west fleeing the russians - killing inmates all along the marches. But yes, some did arrive at new camps, and when the Russians or other Allies marched on those camps, the whole story repeated itself.

There simply is no contradiction. They weren't killed because by January 1945 no camp in the whole territory of the Nazis was able to liquidate all of their inmates. They did their best to kill as many as possible though.

I think the problem is that you fail to understand that there were a) many camps and b) not all were "death camps" .... And not even the "death camps" were able to kill all of their inmates once they learned that the Russians were only days away.

Eisenhower, when he toured the camps after VE Day, ordered full documentation for those who he knew would later try to deny the atrocities ever happened. I believe he was thinking about some of the people who visit ATS.

reply to post by Nite_wing


Yes he visited a certain camp (I can't remember which one) and if I recall correctly invited Patton and another general whose name I've forgoten along. One of them was physically sick.

I've got a gazillion questions and I'd love to find out everyone elses opinion/thoughts on this. Another question I have is...why would the germans waste the time and effort on an operation on Elie Weisels foot? Wouldnt they have just killed him? There are just too many conflicting stories for me to buy the whole holocaust story. I'm not saying I dont believe any of it. I'm sure there were heinous crimes but not 4 million of them. I've gotta bolt for now. I'll be back to read and ask some more, I'm sure of it..

Thanks, Kim

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by Nite_wing

 

Yes he visited a certain camp (I can't remember which one) and if I recall correctly invited Patton and another general whose name I've forgoten along. One of them was physically sick.

I think that was Ohrdurf (part of Buchenwald) since that must have been in the west... maybe 2-3 months later than Auschwitz lib?

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


I'm responding to your answer of...there were no transfered or released prisoners, that it simply wasnt true and what made me believe that. Thats what we are talking about, transfer and release of the jewish prisoners.

Thanks. Kim

Originally posted by Demetre
. Another question I have is...why would the germans waste the time and effort on an operation on Elie Weisels foot?
Thanks, Kim

Elie Wiesel was not selected for extermination but was condemned to forced hard labor at a subcamp. Forced laborers had access to very primitive and rudimentary medical treatment. "Operation" (minor surgery?), as I remember the story from years ago - is not an adequate word. He had an inflamed foot and rather than let him die and therefore waste his labor potential they granted him treatment at a primitive, inmate-run infirmary. There's no contradiction in that. I believe he was sorting electrical equipment at the Buna facility if I remember correctly.

Again you are working under the impression that all and every jew(s) that was deported to a camp was imediatly selected for rapid extermination. No one - not even the most hardcore of Zionists - makes any such a claim. Only a certain part was selected and condemned to death by gassing. The rest was worked to death through forced labor (or nastier things)-.-- Some of those survived. Not all inmates were jews. There were different levels of hierarchy amongst the inmates. It really isn't that uniform a story.



[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

as a jew with relatives present and gone who had the tattoo and stories to go along with said tattoo.
the only thing i question at times is the 6 million number.
sometimes i think more, sometimes i think it was less.
nut the holocaust was undoubtedly real.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by rubbertramp]

Originally posted by Demetre
reply to post by NichirasuKenshin

 

I'm responding to your answer of...there were no transfered or released prisoners, that it simply wasnt true and what made me believe that. Thats what we are talking about, transfer and release of the jewish prisoners.

Thanks. Kim

Not all inmates were killed. The evacuation of all the Auschwitz-Camps was totally chaotic and not systematic. They heard that the Russians were coming and the guards rounded up the priority inmates and whomever they could get a hold of (Eli Wiesel was among them) and marched them to the west away from the Russians.
Many died on that march - but some also arrived at Buchenwald were most remained until the end of the war. But yes, in the chaotic last days of Auschwitz; they did not manage to EVACUATE/DEPORT EVERY SINGLE inmate. That would have taken an army. An organization. And time. None of that they had.

How is there anything contradictory in this?

[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]