Would the soldiers side with the citizens or the federal government.

I'm not sure If I am putting this in the right forum.

Sigh.. My brother is visiting my parents house he's in the army. We where around a big bon fire and talking. I asked him what he was going to do when he left the army and he told me he wanted to go into the police force. I'm ok with that and I asked him a hypothetical... What would you do if told to round up weapons. He told me strait to my face he had no problem with it. I almost dropped my damn beer!!!!!! I told him about the second amendment and asked him again and he told me he'd do whatever it takes to take care of his family. He turned it around on me and said you dont have a family so you wouldnt understand.

I'm still trying to re-align my jaw after it slammed into the floor.

I'm asking advice here. How do I argue this with my brother?

Edit: fixing a typo

[edit on 7/18/2010 by madmangunradio]

I feel for ya on that one. IMO I think that once someone goes into the military (branch doesn't matter), that people are forced to reevaluate their family structure. Like most would think parents, wife, children, but what people not in the military don't understand is that the military teaches you that THEY are your family now.

While your in basic training, they tear you down, and build you back up, with their ideals. Not with the ones you came there with. To be honest I don't think that its with bad intent, as it is to have an obedient soldier. They try to tell you that your a leader, a man amongst boys, but what they fail to tell you is that your a follower, and a robot.

I know that some would argue against my last statement, but prove me wrong. Everyone says, "not me", but when your on the line, and your new "family" is playing by the rules, would they really want to be the odd man out?

While your brothers home, maybe you can try to explain to him, that though hes a military man, he is also a hu- man, and protecting the rights of others is his responsibility. Even if you have to go online and find where it clearly states this, sometimes they can get lost, its not that he doesn't love his family, but when told all the time that you have to do what the government tells you, and Ive heard they sometimes threaten them with things like, do you want you family to die? Or they don't see war, were doing it for them.

So don't take it to personal, just be supportive, and I'm sure he will come around.


Peace to you...

I have to add that he kept telling me it'll never happen.. Even after arguing for about 30 minutes his wife agreed with him.. @#$@#$! 30 minutes of arguing with him and his wife they still feel that family comes first..

I am at my wits end.

I'm obviously failing here.

Thank you noregretsever. I dont mean to be a downer but you'll regret some things. I used to tell people never have regrets...


[edit on 7/18/2010 by madmangunradio]

Why would decisions be any harder or different than they were in the Civil War?
Here in Arizona we have a state law that makes it illegal to confiscate citizens weapons during martial law. Several other states have the same.

If any official decides to ignore that Law then I am in my legal rights to defend myself against an illegal activity. Force will be met with force. My decision. Yours may be different.

I would view any federal activity of this nature as an act of war on the state of Arizona and behave accordingly.

The point is.. pissess me off.. He feels his family comes first. Regardless of the law.. Thats why I am sick to my stomache.. Argued about it for almost an hour and he told me straight to my face he would do whatever it took to take care of his family.

I cant fault him for that but I'm obviously not winning this argument.

aka screw the constitution as long as my family is taken care of.

Thats his mindset. I've failed. Asking for advice?

Edit to add a ?

[edit on 7/18/2010 by madmangunradio]

How does he protect his family from a group of home invaders. Since he doesn't have a gun either. His would be on base in the armory.
He gets to watch the horrible scene then bite on his lip while cursing the illegal orders he enforced.

reply to post by madmangunradio


I'm going to assume your brother is a young man. He has been somewhat brain washed by the military. Maybe indoctrinated would be a better word. Your brother needs to be reminded that he took an oath to protect the Constitution. That includes the second amendment. Any order that violates the Constitution is not a lawful order.

As an ex military man myself, I believe that a great many of the average soldier will not turn their guns on their countrymen, but certainly they're some that will.

As far as your brother is concerned, saying he would do something and doing it are two different things. If you really believe that he would violate his oath and follow unlawful orders, then you need to talk to him about his priorities. Is he Special Forces? In my opinion, Special Forces and the Marines are the ones that we would have to worry about. I do not mean any offence to anyone reading this. It's just that those guys are more hardcore and more indoctrinated than the regular soldier.
I wish you the best.
Seeashrink

reply to post by madmangunradio


would the soldiers side with the citizens or the government?

neither and both, and the decision has sorta already surfaced hasn't it?

the soldiers are subservient, lesser than, the corporations and their black-ops subsidiaries, aren't they? or were my senses wrong during those 3+ years in warzones?

the soldiers, are answering to corporations. i think.

citizens? government? just fancy words for pieces of corporations.

In the beginning soldiers would follow orders. After a short time After a short time they would come to understand the immorality of the situation. This is when the government will bring foriegn troops in to control the people. It could be canadian soldiers or perhaps NATO troops but my guess would be Israeli troops as they are most used to dealing with "desenters"

I never thought my brother would tell me strait to my face he'd follow orders. To make sure his family was taken care of. I argued with him over the fire with his wife about it and all he could do was berate me about what if's.. I kept telling him.. what if.. and he argued with me it'll never happen. What shocked me was he said he'll do whatever he has to to take care of his family.

Dont get me wrong family does come first but he argued me to death that he'll do whatever it takes to make sure his family is safe and brushed off any what if's on me.. He threw his beer down and end of conversation.. sigh...

reply to post by seeashrink


I'll agree with the hardcore aspect of Marines, but to the enemy and the training we were given can make you pissed off at any other Marine or civilian. The difference is enemy status.

The constitutional oath forbids that status and I doubt there is a Marine that isn't unaware of that fact. I would expect arrests of officers giving such orders or worse.

Edit to add..the enemies foreign and domestic is a thin line that doesn't support the weight of encountering all citizens as the enemy.

[edit on 7/18/2010 by awakentired]

Originally posted by awakentired
How does he protect his family from a group of home invaders. Since he doesn't have a gun either. His would be on base in the armory.
He gets to watch the horrible scene then bite on his lip while cursing the illegal orders he enforced.

May I ask something?

Why would a cop not have a gun either?

I have 3 brothers in the military.. This was the first time I opened up and asked a what if with one of my brothers and his response took me by surprise. sigh....... He wants to go into law enforcement..

Edit to add.. he has no problem with violating the 2nd amendment...

Again... Im asking for help on how to talk to my brother and slap some sense into his head.

[edit on 7/18/2010 by madmangunradio]

reply to post by awakentired
\
I see your point I think. I've helped with the training of Special Forces in my area. These people are not trained to be nice. It is my feeling that some of the scenarios that we practiced were training them for civilian encounters. Recently the USAF was doing some training in this area and it was almost certain that they were training to engage what they considered hostile civilians.
Seeashrink

awakeindtired and seashrink my brother is 4th id army. Help me out here? How does this tie into the thought process of my brother..

Edit to add and clarify: Help me out on how to handle my brother. He's sideing with a paycheck vs the constitution.

[edit on 7/18/2010 by madmangunradio]

Originally posted by madmangunradio
How do I argue this with my brother?

Sometimes two people just can never see eye to eye and have to go their separate ways.


*You should tell him that you won't be talking to him until he gets himself right in the head. I'd avoid him from now on.

Maybe he'll clue in.

Exuberant1.. He's my brother. I personaly wanted to slap him sideways..