All You Non-Muslims Listen UP (LET'S GET ONE THING STRAIGHT)

reply to post by oozyism


And what if you have convinced yourself that Jesus is not the son of God?

Does that make Islam any better?

Islam is a hate and death cult, it is the only religion that is littering our planet with barbaric murders.
It accepts stoning to death, killing apostates, chopping hands and feet.

Let nobody here forget that Jesus teaches universal love where Muhammad teaches universal hate towards non Muslims.

According to Islam some things are Najis, impure, best avoided, not to be touched.
Kafirs are non Muslims.

Here is the list of impure things:
Urine
Faeces
Semen
Dead body
Blood
Dog
Pig
Kafir
Alcoholic liquors
The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat.

Ugly cult.

reply to post by Ersatz

How is a ruling made by Khomeini relevant to all of Islam? How is a ruling made by Khomeini relevant to ANY of Islam except the part where he was (de facto) ruler?

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Ersatz

 

How is a ruling made by Khomeini relevant to all of Islam? How is a ruling made by Khomeini relevant to ANY of Islam except the part where he was (de facto) ruler?

Islam is the whole of Islam, Khomeini is a highly respected teacher in Islam.

Islam is the only creed that promotes the barbaric killing of innocent people.
Buddhists do not do it, Christian do not do it, Hindus do not do it...Muslims do it.

Babloyi is trying to digress, make it one individual's fault but Khomeini like Bin Laden are true Muslims, they follow the instructions of the Quran.

When the Twin Towers fell the whole of Islam cheered.

Jews are pigs, Christians are monkeys...the Quran is drenched in hate:
Muslims hate non Muslims because their God instructs them to do so:

Some of the universal love in the Quran:

2:24 And if ye do it not - and ye can never do it - then guard yourselves against the Fire prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is of men and stones.  
 
2:88 And they say: Our hearts are hardened. Nay, but Allah hath cursed them for their unbelief. Little is that which they believe.  
  
2:89..The curse of Allah is on disbelievers.  
  
2:161 Lo! Those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers; on them is the curse of Allah and of angels and of men combined.  
  
2:216 Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.  
  
2:257 Allah is the Protecting Guardian of those who believe. He bringeth them out of darkness into light. As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities. They bring them out of light into darkness. Such are rightful owners of the Fire. They will abide therein.  
  
3:12 Say (O Muhammad) unto those who disbelieve: Ye shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell, an evil resting-place.  
  
4:56 Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise.  

  
4:76 Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak.  
  
5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
7:177 Evil as an example are the folk who denied Our revelations, and were wont to wrong themselves.  
  
9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.  
  
9:73 O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.

9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).  
 


All Quranic guidance is to "hate and have enmity towards non-Muslims until non-Muslims become Muslims"

Let Noboby here forget that Jesus teaches Universal Love, Muhammad teaches universal hate towards non Muslims.

It is simply sick to stone people to death, chop their hands and feet off.

All Muslims believe that is just and correct punishment even if Babloyi disagrees.

.

reply to post by Ersatz

Khomeini is a highly respected teacher of Islam? By who? By the small group of "council members" who wish to control Iran? Even many of the Iranis don't agree with what he says. Much of it has no basis in Islam.

How was my response an attempt to digress when your entire previous post was based on a false assumption that Khomeini==Islam? It was exactly on point.

Quoting disjointed and misquoted out of context quotes isn't helping your case either.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by babloyi]

reply to post by Ersatz



you are taking the texts of the quran out of their full context,
this is exactly what all religions do with their own
holy books, so to judge the other holy books.
So both defenders as attackers misunderstand their
own book to attack the other books.
Or in case of anti-religion feelings all books gets attacked
by the known interpretations which arent put in
the full contect of the whole holy book.

Dont forget that muslim is not an arabic person,
one that by culture follows the relgious doctrines, but actually means
believer, in that same sense christian means actually believer,
but people made it brandnames instead of believers in
the one truth, Life or God.

If the quran warns against other relgions, it is against
the branding of God as God in Division, when the Quran
protects a God that is One, as preached in both gospels
and Torah.

The symbolic laws are a mirror of the real law,
but people read the inversed mirror but not the essence,
that essence is hidden to allow the paradox of life to complete,
as was warned delusion would take place, and a monster
with many heads would rule this world. which symolises
the division of what is holy, oneness of god, which is reflected
in everyone. If god is seen in everyone, forgiveness takes place,
truth beats lies, (man beat women = symbolic language),
and division becomes one. The Quran and Gospel underlines
the importance of progressive revelation, and it was allready known
those texts would be abused. This created division, division
that is needed to allow God to be complete without being guilty,
the paradox of life.
The essence of religion is always the same,
there is only One, Life. See One and the lie (you) dies to itself.
As the Torah teaches you can not see God and live, as Paul
teached, every day we die again, or as The quran explained,
the prophet fights his way home, as to win the fight agaist the
inversion of Life, the lie, Or God Himself, Jacob becoming
Israel; the promise. Christ was betrayed 3 times,
the prophet (Mohammed) did not believe his wife, 3 times.
Relgions are more connected then they look like,
and life is build in a logical structure to alow Life (God)
to be the complete truth. For His Glory.

The one eyed one (anti) is the one who lives in ignorance,
turn the other cheeck and u find a good in every bad,
the motor of evolution, or the believer,
or the forgiver, from accuser to defender.



[edit on 19-7-2010 by pasttheclouds]

First the "Khoemeni" digression and now "disjointed, out of context" verses from the Quran...so predictable.

Tell me what other religion likens other humans to urine and faeces,
What kind of God has such a thwarted imagination?

Tell me where in the Quran are the verses of Universal Love
(two or three verses will do I don't mind if they are disjointed);

Where can I find verses like "Do unto others as you would be done by" or "let the one with no sins cast the first stone" or "love your neighbour"?

Why do members of the religion of peace keep killing each other and other innocent people?

Why doesn't Allah do his own killing, why does he ask his believers to kill on his behalf?

9:29 Fightt those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

2.191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

08.012 I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Muhammad said:
I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), Sahih Bukhari 4:52:220.

What a religion!

reply to post by Ersatz


well, i agree that u attack the interpretation that looks to say indeed
what u think it says...but thats not what the quran really says,
it is how it is interpretated. The holy books, and in this case quran,
have a context, and that context has always be read with it, so yes you are right, and no, you are not right.

The torah is identical, it clearly says god is one, then it gives a law for people outside god, which is impossible if god is one, very simplistic the laws given are symbolic laws with a very important meaning but they are read as literal, because that had to happen from a god perspective. from a god perspective people had to belief the lies first before they could return to Truth. this is the lost sheep of the gospels. and the hidden revelation of god in the quran. And the hidden truths in Hindudism, which states there is only One.
The symbolic laws are cancelled out by God law, Oneness, which is love, after it went wrong and reflected back. Dualism. All the holy books put the oneness from god above anything else. So God is one and you learn love, or God is divided and u follow the law literal; Even A prophet only becomes free after he went the u-turn.


[edit on 19-7-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds


Nobody admits that the Quran says what it says, they all think it says what they think.

Nobody understands the Quran, there are numerous books of hadith and sectarian jurisprudence labeled “authentic” and for all practical purposes, they replaced the Quran.
The Quran is not a book to be understood on its own; people need to read books written by professional narrators, collectors, editors, and scholars of hearsay and speculation.
The Quran is not a guide, it is a business held together by thousands of charlatans who call themselves clerics. 


Hate comes directly from Allah, instructing Muslims to hate non-Muslims; a religious duty.  
 
"Indeed there is for you an excellent example in the Prophet Ibraaheem and those with him, when they said to their people: Indeed we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allaah; we have rejected you, and there has arisen between us and you enmity and hatred, until you believe and worship Allaah alone." [Soorah al-Mumtahanah 60:4]." 

I notice that you have not listed any verses ( 3 or 4 will do in or out of context) that speak of universal love.

.

reply to post by Ersatz


the whole quran is full of love...the quran remembers us the oneness of god, and gives you the option to look away from it by abusing the rules in it. Oneness is no other word then love. And the oneness of god is above the interpretation of a god that is divided from us, where the literal law works its plays, does its work. Everyone who divides Truth (God) is living a lie and has the lie as his idol, and those will use the laws to judge people. But it is regret that is the way home, and without mistales there is no regret. And thats what we call reflection. Yes, the books were (intended) to be misunderstood, but also to be understood again.

Im not going to play the shoot a verse game. The Quran is clear enough, the Torah is clear enough and the Gospel is clear enough, also the B. Gita
is clear. And not the least, Logic tells the same story.

You are right, Hadiths are not the books, and the books are not to be read as dominating gods law of oneness, they can actually only be understood by alwaqys remembering Gods oneness, Love = setting Life free as one.

reply to post by Ersatz

Originally posted by Ersatz
First the "Khoemeni" digression and now "disjointed, out of context" verses from the Quran...so predictable.

Tell me what other religion likens other humans to urine and faeces,
What kind of God has such a thwarted imagination?

You claim I made a "Khomeini digression" when I pointed out that your insertion of "kafirs" into the list of "impure things" was an invention of his, yet you brought it up again. I mentioned that you should read the actual quotes and the surrounding verses instead of copy-pasting misquoted and edited stuff off some hate website, yet you copy-paste some more (and some of the same) quotes again, and again without checking.

I'm sorry. If I had realised you were just here to pick a fight and bad-mouth something you repeatedly get wrong (because you must oppose it, since your personal interpretation of some belief system says so), I wouldn't have gotten involved. Happy Christianing!

reply to post by Ersatz

It accepts stoning to death, killing apostates, chopping hands and feet

Firstly, if you read the OP, it said Islam defines a Muslim, not the other around.

Islam can't be judged based on supposed Muslims, Islam is judged based on the Quran, the source of Islam

All that being said, where in Quran is stoning accepted, or the killing of apostates, or the chopping of hands and feets?

You just spoke out of your a$$ there without any thinking at all.

reply to post by oozyism


I would even go further, muslims were before the Quran, and the Quran
when interpretated right, as the torah and gospel is a written version of the truth.

For Islam the prophets were muslims, before the quran exsisted in written form, a muslim is defined by belief in God, and God is one.

Not to take away from the truth, god is another word for Life. All believers in Life, loving Life with all their capacibility are believers, real muslims or real christians or real children of promise.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by oozyism


What you say is immaterial, facts speak louder than words.

Here is an example of Muhammad's Love for his neighbor and how to turn the other cheek.:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:  
A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you should join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims.

When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died

(Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, "They committed murder and theft and fought against Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.") (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261) 


Still no verses emphasizing Universal Love in the Quraan??

.

reply to post by Ersatz


you are taking things out of context, different but similar as some islamist regimes do,
this is exactly that what makes people temporaly immoral
in many cases. it makes people judging, the books learn us
dualism, judgement and release of judgement (forgiveness / =understanding)
judging others to be immoral will give a right for you
to treat them the same way as how they treat others,
which is the same thing as what they do. /i dont write
this personal, i just give an example of how reflection works

Mohammed was not free from divison (=living in lies),
but in a relative world, some people evolve
faster then others, even after the wrongs they did.
In a relative world it is not about being absolutely right
before you go the way of the relative.

In other words, reflection needs guilt first.
And that way is explained in the books.
Christ was a symbol of oneness when it becomes free,
Mohammed was the symbol of the fighter that
one day will become free.

2 different things.
there is the prophet and there is the final seal of the prophet,
which is glorification which is one in will with the father.

The father always comes and goes in clouds (confusion)
(the father = Truth as absolute one)



[edit on 20-7-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Originally posted by Ersatz
reply to post by oozyism

 

What you say is immaterial, facts speak louder than words.

Here is an example of Muhammad's Love for his neighbor and how to turn the other cheek.:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:  
A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you should join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims.

When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died

(Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, "They committed murder and theft and fought against Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.") (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261) 


Still no verses emphasizing Universal Love in the Quraan??

.

That is the Hadith, meaning the culture, that has nothing to do with Islam (I specifically said Quran, the source of Islam), infact the Quran says specifically that some of those who follow their forefathers blindly are committing the same wrong doings their forefathers committed.

Here is what I said:

Islam can't be judged based on supposed Muslims, Islam is judged based on the Quran, the source of Islam

and what do you mean universal love in the Quran? What does universal love have to do with anything?

Why would I need universal love?

It is enough that Islam allows everyone to follow their own faith without fear of prosecution. That is enough, and it is enough that it allow people in individual level to choose whether they want to be ruled by Islamic law or not, that is enough, that is the best love, I love Islam.

I don't agree to Western Democracy where the majority rules over minority.

Next time refer to Quran, there is Quran search, just type "Quran search" in google then click the first link.

The Hadith is no different than the Bible, corrupted, and also irrelevant because GOD states in the Quran that the Quran is for all time, not the Hadith. It doesn't give the Hadith any importance, nor does it state that the Hadith will be protected from corruption, unlike the Quran.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by oozyism]

Do you make a distinction between Wahabism and mainstream Islam??

Second line

Originally posted by Steam
Do you make a distinction between Wahabism and mainstream Islam??

Second line

There is only one Islam, and it is defined by Quran.

Anyone can create their own version of Islam, even you, but they will all be like US products copied by Chinese, unreliable and won't last long.

reply to post by oozyism


What are your opinions on Wahabism then??

Do you think that it is giving the legitimate Islam a bad name??

Originally posted by Steam
reply to post by oozyism

 

What are your opinions on Wahabism then??

Do you think that it is giving the legitimate Islam a bad name??

Wahabis use culture as much as Quran.

That is the only problem I see with them.

The culture is out dated and useless, they are suppose to learn from the past, not copy it.

reply to post by oozyism


So, do you think that Islam should go through a reformation in order to not be as outdated and address issues that are more relevant in today's world?

I think there are some Muslims who are already working on this

Liberal movements within Islam