Semitic Saturn Worship.

hyskos shepherd kings = hibirus = hebrews.

hibirus = worshippers at nibiru/nibru (enlil's city on the euphrates). nibru was representative of the crossing of jupiter across the river of heaven, mirrored on earth as the crossing of the euphrates at enlil's temple city of nibru. in essence, they were people of the crossing/cross (of jupiter).

[edit on 25-6-2010 by undo]

Could you post some links? Sounds interesting.

The hebrews in the bible are the only recountable efford of the egyptians, slaving the hebrew people. If we take the accounts of the egyptians in action, they said that they where prisoners from the Hyksos, in the same timeline and place, as the bible states the mirror story.

reply to post by Lunar_Secrets


it goes something like this: they took over, they became pharaohs, they grew unpopular, they were dethroned, they were enslaved, and eventually they were "chased out" of egypt by pharaoh ahmose (moses' name sake methinks).

my theory is they were architects who were taught to build the temples of the mesopotamian gods (who were identical to the egyptian gods). they travelled back and forth between the two places (egypt and mesopotamia), bringing their flocks with them as they moved. originally they built or helped to build several structures in egypt, which gave them alot of influence. they were the original stone masons.


[edit on 26-6-2010 by undo]

links

pic of hyskos shepherd kings (hibirus)
tiny.cc...

wiki info on hyskos
en.wikipedia.org...

babylonian omens of the moon with halos (from mul.apin tablet). jupiter at nibiru reference, second paragraph
www.reocities.com...

enki's journey to nibru
www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk...

wiki info on nibru
en.wikipedia.org...

mul.apin tablets: path of enlil
www.reocities.com...



[edit on 26-6-2010 by undo]

Originally posted by elfulanozutan0
How did the early Jews know about the Hexagram on the northern pole of Saturn discovered by Nasa in the 1960s?

Sorry, I am unable to tell how they did know, but I have been asking the very same question recently. There are historical quotations (might post them later) that show that it was somewhat public knowledge that Saturn was considered to be the star of Israel. And somehow the facts presented in OP (Saturn is the sixth planet from, has six rings that are easily distinguished with simple telescope, and has the hexagon on its north pole.) hints that ancient tribes of Israel (or whatever you want to call them) might had this knowledge.

There is also an older thread about the issue.

I am constantly hoarding all the information that comes accross about this issue. It certainly interesting to note that Saturn refers to sabbath (Lord Sabaoth). But of course, Saturn is not to be blamed, nor anyone else. I think it was (and still is) one of most interesting planets of our solar system, as there can be life on its moons. But according to the gnostic lore Sabaoth is paraller to Ialdabaoth, the demiurge that created the world, and was considered to be evil - while the universe had higher powers..

Also it is theorized that Saturn and Jupiter are great factors when counting the propability of life in Earth, as their masses have pulled most of the incoming objects into their orbits, hence protecting us from space debris.

In this sense, they justly deserve the reverence as our protectors (maybe even creators in one sense). But the original presented in OP (and in beginning of this post) still remains unaswered.

-v

Just to correct you.

The star of solomon is a basic star. Though i do realize that many sites call the star of david the star of solomon. There is actually a kabbalistic meaning behind why David is associated with a 6 pointed star and why Solomon with a 5 pointed star. David was the king, and therefore his unique ability behind his reign was in serving as the universal soul between the people of Israel and G-d; this therefore established a conncection, G-d figureheaded by David, his king, and the people of Israel. This united the upper waters with the lowest waters creating the star of David. Solomon conversely was the 14th generation from Abraham (father of Judaism), 14 being an allusion to the full moon, which is the 14th day of the 28 day lunar cycle. This 'fullness' alluded to G-d manifest within the world. The Sun (G-d) completely reflecting his light to the full moon (his creation). Solom was therefore associated with this world, physicality. 5 is associated with this world and the 5 pointed star is often an allusion to the divine feminine.


Heres some more information in the kabbalistic significance of the 3 stars associated with abraham, David and Solomon

Abraham, David, and Solomon

Abraham lived nineteen generations after Eve, and 19 is the numerical value of Chavah. He, together with his wife Sarah, began the rectification of the primordial sin. King David is the fourteenth generation from Abraham, and 14 is the numerical value of his Hebrew name, David. King Solomon was the fifteenth generation from Abraham, and the reduced numerical value of his name, Shlomo, is 15.

Woman in general (and Eve in particular) is compared to the moon and the lunar cycle to the woman's physiological cycle. Our sages teach us that the generation of King Solomon, the fifteenth generation of the Jewish people, is the generation of the full moon. Just as the moon reaches its fullest form on the fifteenth day of its monthly cycle, the Jewish monarchy reached its apex in the generation of King Solomon. (It then began to wane and continued to do so for another fifteen generations, until its cessation with the destruction of the first Temple.) In this context, Abraham, the first generation of the Jewish people, symbolizes the new moon, and King David symbolizes its last phase before reaching completion.

The sum of these three numbers--1, 14, and 15--is 30, the number of days in the lunar month. These numbers (and the essences of the personalities they represent) are thus the key to rectifying the whole lunar cycle, which, as we said, is a symbol for woman. By internalizing the essences of these three great personalities, we can fully manifest the feminine side of our own personalities and thereby rectify the primordial sin. As we said, these essences are reflected in the numerical values of the three letters of Chavah and the three forms of the star that share their numbers of points with the numerical values of these letters.
The Shield of Abraham

The eight "wings" of the 8-pointed shield of Abraham are half-squares, that is, right triangles pointing outward. Our sages approximate the ratio between the hypotenuse of a right triangle to its side as 7:5. (Exactly, the ratio is the square root of 2:1.) It is explained in Chassidut that the soul is able to meditate on the Divine nothingness that continuously brings created substance into being. This is spoken of as the ability to gaze "diagonally," that is, not to be deluded by the direct experience of physical reality, but to perceive the inner reality "behind" it.

This is the essence of Moses' level of prophecy, which our sages refer to as "seeing through a clear pane of glass." The clarity and precision of his prophetic perception is reflected in the way he introduced his prophecies: "This is what God has commanded?." The Hebrew word for "this"--zeh (זה) is composed of two letters, zayin and hei, whose numerical values are 7 and 5, respectively.

When a person is able to perceive the Divine nothingness that brings created substance into being, the dimensions of time and space merge in his consciousness. For this reason there are eight "wings" in the shield of Abraham, which allude to the eight extremities of the four dimensions time and space: past, future, south, north, east, west, up, and down.
The Shield of David

The shield of David is the only star whose inner polygon and outer wings are equal in area. We may imagine the wings folding in to exactly cover the inner polygon, similar to the way a rose's petals open in the morning and close at night. (The Hebrew word for "rose," shoshanah, is related to the Hebrew word for "six," sheish.)

When a person's outer behavior is unaffected, reflecting perfectly his inner feelings, it is an indication of his sincerity and truthfulness. The Torah considers these traits the essential qualifications for a king. This is because unaffectedness implies two things: that there is no dichotomy between the person's inner feelings and outer behavior, and that his inclinations toward introversion and extroversion are perfectly balanced.

The righteous king manifests the second trait in that the royal aloofness from his subjects he exhibits in order to rule is directly proportional to his inner sense of essential lowliness. In fact, his aloof detachment not only does not contradict his humility but actually mirrors it exactly.

It is therefore fitting that this geometric form is associated with King David, for he said of himself: "I shall always be lowly in my eyes."

It is explained in Chassidut that God employs two different manifestations of His creative power to create and sustain reality. The transcendent creative light is responsible for existence in general, while the immanent creative light determines the form and nature of each created being. The transcendent light cannot normally be revealed in human consciousness, since its intensity would overpower the individuality derived from the immanent light. The unaffectedness characteristic of the sincere individual, however, unites God's transcendent light (reflected in the individual's outer behavior) with His immanent light (reflected in his inner feelings).
The Shield of Solomon

The form of the shield of Solomon expresses the most fundamental underlying principle of art, both of Divine art (i.e., the creation of the world) and human art: the golden section. The Golden Section is a mathematical ratio represented by the formula on the left. . The unique element of this ratio is the square root of five, which is reflected in the form of this star, as follows.

Upon examining the five "wings" of the shield of Solomon, we see that each possesses two external sides of equal length and a third side that is part of the inner pentagon. The ratio between either of the external sides to the other two is the golden section. Thus, the inner meaning of the shield of Solomon is the inner, essential grace reflected in all aspects of God's creation. The human artist considers it his goal to imitate and expose this inherent beauty.

Indeed, this form may be seen to reflect the Divine image in which man was created, since man's body possesses many instances of the golden section, far beyond the frequency of its appearance in other creatures or elements of creation. (We can even picture this star as a man standing on two feet, his head above and two hands extending out to the sides.)

This star is therefore aptly associated with King Solomon, since he evinced the highest sensitivity to beauty and grace, as consummately reflected in holiness in the construction of the Holy Temple. The construction of the Temple is in a sense the main occupation of every Jew at all times and in all places, in that his life is dedicated to transforming the world into a home for God, as it is said: "They shall make Me a sanctuary, that I may dwell amongst them." Every Jew is bidden to perform every mitzvah and good deed in the most beautiful and exquisite manner possible, in order to glorify God to his greatest ability.

The star of david is 6 pointed.

Where is the star of Abraham is 8 pointed

This theory has so many holes ies frightening that anyone would believe it.

You can look up Jordan Maxwell's videos about. He claims that Judaism is actually worshiping Saturn.

Judaism, worships Saturn? I was once reading jung and he said the same thing. It seems to be a popular idea to throw about Judaism...

One coincidence of this is that Jews go to synagogue on SATURday. Note the claim SATURN worship.

So. Christians hallow Sunday, and Muslims Friday. Does that mean Christians worship the sun and Muslims venus? And second of all. Day 1 is Sunday. Day 7, is Saturday, G-d rested on Saturday. Hence, Judaism considers Shabbat, which begins on FRIDAY sun down and ends on Saturday sundown, sacred. Theres so much symbolism associated with why there are even 7 days in a week to begin with to bother explaining why Saturday is the day Jews worship. It certainly has nothing at all to do with Saturn. Saturn, as understood in the pagan world is irrelevant to Judaism. Saturn symbolizes time - being the roman Cronus. I mention this because the torah makes it very clear who Jews serve. YHVH, Elohim (different names/aspects for G-d), not Saturn, which in Hebrew is Shabbatai...

reply to post by dontreally


In fact christian tradition has roots in sun worship. I don't know much about Islam. However, Venus is the morning star, hence refers into both, christ and antichrist.

Story of Christ bears many parallers with winter solistice and other twists including sun worship.

Yeah, it was in Aion where Jung wrote about Saturn being the star of Israel - but Jung didn't make up the claim, but relies on historically recorded statements.

Every religion has their roots in previous religions (which they consider pagan) and have therefore inherited very many traits from them.

It is evident if we are to learn anything from the history of religion, that mankind has always worshipped the objects which were influential, yet unknown to them. So religions begin from druidistic nature worship, went on to more monotheistic sun worship, now we have made idols out of our own psyche which we seem uncapable to understand. Also every religion is an social phenomena which through shared ritualized symbolism assimilate people into the society.

In cold reality, there are no gods, but they are merely products of our imagination. But their psychological existence is nevertheless a fact.

-v

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by dontreally

 

In fact christian tradition has roots in sun worship. I don't know much about Islam. However, Venus is the morning star, hence refers into both, christ and antichrist.

Story of Christ bears many parallers with winter solistice and other twists including sun worship.

Yeah, it was in Aion where Jung wrote about Saturn being the star of Israel - but Jung didn't make up the claim, but relies on historically recorded statements.

Every religion has their roots in previous religions (which they consider pagan) and have therefore inherited very many traits from them.

It is evident if we are to learn anything from the history of religion, that mankind has always worshipped the objects which were influential, yet unknown to them. So religions begin from druidistic nature worship, went on to more monotheistic sun worship, now we have made idols out of our own psyche which we seem uncapable to understand. Also every religion is an social phenomena which through shared ritualized symbolism assimilate people into the society.

In cold reality, there are no gods, but they are merely products of our imagination. But their psychological existence is nevertheless a fact.

-v

edit on 3-11-2010 by v01i0 because: gg0

There was never any worship of planets.

Thats an old wives tale or propaganda to get the masses into thinking physical, material concrete things. the less abstract their thoughts are, the more 'contained' and narrowed their spiritual reality is.

The 7 planets are merely tickers for a higher principle which works THROUGH them.

Consider it like this. The ancients viewed the universe as one cosmic whole which reveals its wholeness in each of its parts. Thus, in kabbalah, there are 4 worlds. Emanation, Creation, Formation and Action. This world we live in is the lowest world. in this world itself there are two aspects, terrestrial (the earth we line on) and celestial (the heavens). The celestial is considered the bridge between this world and the spiritual world. As outer space actually leads to inner space, so to speak. Thus, In the world of emanation you have the primordial principles of creation (or archetypes). These forces are created and actualized in the world of Creation, where they begin to influence reality in a conceptual manner (in that they are concepts, therefore 'spiritual' and abstract). The next world is formation, or the world of angels. this is the extension of the forces of teh higher world into a world where they take on form and dynamism. The lowest world action, is the actuating of the upper energies. Its this world which invests energy and vitality into the physical world we experience.

Thus, there is a heirarchy. In the higher world, there are 7 fundamental archetypes called in kabbalah, the 7 lower sefirot (other traditions have different names) these forces interact in the higher worlds in various ways. In the most simple way. The upper triad of chesed,gevurah and tiferet are inner focused emotions, or powers, whereas the lower triad are outer focused emotions or powers. The 7th is the vessel and medium which they work through.

So, the 7 planets actually correspond to these 7 powers. Chesed to Jupiter. Thus, 'Chesed", hebrew for love or kindness, and Jove (Jupiter) mean the same thing. When one is jovial he is happy. Gevurah = Mars, hence "martial". Mercury to Hod, Venus to Netzach and Saturn to Malkhut (hence, this lowest world, the 7th, is associated with time, ie; saturn) Tiferet and Yesod, symbolizing the self and the ego, correspond to the sun and the moon.

This world is one massive analogy of the higher worlds. hence, every mystic and student of the mysteries of creation knows that myth should never be understood in a superficiasl way, but rather as a medium that conveys the archetypal principles that govern life.

And if you doubt these archertypes are real. Look at magick. One can contact these powers and actually manipulate physicality reality simply because these powers are in the order of causation anterior to this phyical world. Therefore, if i want the tides to stop i could do that (of course, it isnt morally right to do and you will be hurt in someway for upsetting the natural will of the creator)

Jung is lying by saying Jews worship Saturn. What he really means is that Jews worship time. And it is true, that time is the secret of Shabbat. On Shabbat, so the kabbalists say, and all observant Jews aswell, the 6 preceding days of the week ascend and the 7th day is experienced as a time above time. It is pure timelessness, the eternal now. Saturn is merely an intermediary, and same with the concept of time. The point of Judaism and the whole essencev of it, is to connect with G-d in teh deepest way possible. One of the lass of Shabbat is that no creative activity can be engaged in. So, you could run around if youd like, since the prohibition is against creative activity, and not work. Creative activity is what G-d did during the 6 days of creation. On the 7th day, everything was complete. No movement, just a stillness and holiness of the presenty. Thus, shabbat is one long meditation on the deep gratitude that the soul should have for his creator. It is really very very deep.

As for Christians and muslims serving the sun and venus. Again, the same principle applies. The sun and venus are each symbols for different spiritual powers. The sun is the 'self' - thus explaining christianities worship of the universal man, or 'christ' image (apollo symbolized the same thing). And Venus as the divine flux and life/desire . This could explain why muslims have a tendancy to get a little fanatical.

reply to post by dontreally


Well as far I am aware, there has been groups that have worshipped planets, or the wanderers, as it is translated. There has been Kronos/Time/Saturn, Zeus/Jupiter, Venus/Affrodite and so on - although it is also true that they have been also symbols for deities.

Well, I don't think that Jung was lying (although you may disagree, since I remember you from a thread "Jung the Illuminati Grandmaster"). Next you go on sayin what he really meant, as if you would know better (howcome then is he lying?)

Also, I don't really regard magic as a possibility. You say you could turn the tide, but refrain to do so due ethical restrictions. As much as I would want to take your word of it, I cannot, since according to my own experiences, magic seem to be a lie, or a misconception of psychological events. Or then again, maybe I got wrong ingredients and lack of will

I am not saying that magic is an impossibility. However, my observations doesn''t back that chance up. Magic as well as religions are real (to me) only in psychological level.. But going further in that would be off topic.

Anyway, this thread is not about magic or Jung, but about evident links between Saturn and it's symbolism with Israel (judaism) and it's religious symbolism. However you try, you cannot undo the facts pointed out (the star of david, the hexagon in saturn, the kronos/saturn connection). But no matter, I'll read you posts with great interest as I am not afraid of alternative opinions

-v

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by dontreally

 

Well as far I am aware, there has been groups that have worshipped planets, or the wanderers, as it is translated. There has been Kronos/Time/Saturn, Zeus/Jupiter, Venus/Affrodite and so on - although it is also true that they have been also symbols for deities.

Well, I don't think that Jung was lying (although you may disagree, since I remember you from a thread "Jung the Illuminati Grandmaster"). Next you go on sayin what he really meant, as if you would know better (howcome then is he lying?)

Also, I don't really regard magic as a possibility. You say you could turn the tide, but refrain to do so due ethical restrictions. As much as I would want to take your word of it, I cannot, since according to my own experiences, magic seem to be a lie, or a misconception of psychological events. Or then again, maybe I got wrong ingredients and lack of will

I am not saying that magic is an impossibility. However, my observations doesn''t back that chance up. Magic as well as religions are real (to me) only in psychological level.. But going further in that would be off topic.

Anyway, this thread is not about magic or Jung, but about evident links between Saturn and it's symbolism with Israel (judaism) and it's religious symbolism. However you try, you cannot undo the facts pointed out (the star of david, the hexagon in saturn, the kronos/saturn connection). But no matter, I'll read you posts with great interest as I am not afraid of alternative opinions

-v

Well, about Jung, he was a notorious womanizer who slept with his patients and admitted to freud in his letters to him that a healthy marriage requires infidelity.

He was a gnostic. Literally, he translated the language of alchemy and gnosticism into psychology, in effect demystifying it.

Jungs personal psychology even involved the integration of ones dark side of his personality, what he called 'the dark god' or the devil, as christianity calls it.

Jung basically has no credibility when it comes to being honest, and if you know anything about Carl Jung, he was quite an aspersive anti-semite, making many statements throughout his life about how Judaism lacks the stability and balance that Christianity, Islam and eastern religions provide. He often quoted Talmud and Rashi interpreting it in accord with his gnostic views (surely knowing full well that the talmudic sages and Rashi were vehement opponents of that philosophy). In Aion, Jung also admits (he often makes surprising admissions in a passive fashion) that christianity has been attempting to coverup Jewish mysticism throughout its history.

I already explained what the inner significance of the planets are, being merely intermediaries and not the source of worship itself. This in itself explains why every religious traditions ascribes the same qualities to the same planets. Thus, the quality is whats the driving force, and the planet merely a celestial 'light' that transmits the force into this world.

Also, Judaism has no graven images. This is an important principle, By definition, 'forming images' can only be done when the force youre forming is known, in some way. Thus, the imagery of Jesus on a cross with a crown of thorns on his head and 3 stakes driven into his hands and feet and a slash at his side, running blood etc, is all symbolic imagery that acts as a representation of the spiritual power thats the actual subject of worship. You can look at Hinduism, Buddhism and you can find the same thing. Same thing with the statues, myths of all peoples. This is what Judaism calls avodat Zara - idol worship. This is a very very deep idea. When you make an image, not only are you giving expression to some conceptual subject, but your making that subject an idol in your mind. By idolizing this force youre in effect worshipping yourself. Its something in yourself you love and seek to give honor to.

Therefore, Judaism has absolutely no imagery, and absolutely no concept of an intermediary. When the intermediary is the object of focus, than thats idol worship. When the moon shines her light, you have to know that her light comes only from the sun. Without that light, she is meaningless and without existence. Likewise, the archetype or intermediary which works between G-d and man is only meant to transmit, not to be regarded as a independent power in itself. The Torah is crystal clear about who's G-d, and his name is YHVH. These 4 letters are called the tetragrammaton and thus refer to the 4 above 'worlds' that i made reference to in my earlier post (thus, G-ds very name alludes to all of created reality, united as one name. The 4 elements of this world along with the 4 kingdoms of nature -man,animal, plant, inanimate, are all physical expressions of this archetypal quaternity in reality) Judaism serves only the one G-d who is the source of reality itself (the word YHVH is from the root Yehi, "to be"). Because G-d is ultimately beyond all defintion, it would be improper for man to make any image to depict him. By making an image, you limit, and by limiting your focusing yourself on one aspect, that aspect you seek to honor.

So, although the Torah does ascribe different names to G-d, its forbidden to look at these as anything other than intermediaries between G-d and man. YHVH is the name of transcendence and Elohim as the name of immanence (hence it shares a gematria with HaTeva, nature, aswell as Kli YHVH, 'vessel of YHVH') and various other names, like YHVH Tvaoth, El Shaddai, EHYEH, El, each name referring to some archetypal mode the infinite creator uses to interact with his creation. But none of these names are depicted in any fashion. The only thing we need to know is that G-d uses these archetypal modes to interact with us. The point is to connect with him. This can only be done by focusing on the source behind the name.

So... Im just trying to correct a misunderstanding that people have. Theres no harm in ammending your views when theyre shown to be wrong. I also once thought that the planets were worshipped before i understood the very subtle nature of mysticism and religion. The planets are intermediaries, and the gods associated with them the qualities (in allegoric fashion) which the planets are connected to. The planet is simply a star in the sky. The planet is not the primary thing, but merely a sign in the heavens that points to its truly abstract and spiritual source (the archetype associated with it).

Also, note how 'the self', that is, ones soul, works on ones personality, that is, ones ego, just as the Sun gives its light to the moon. The moon merely dims the light of the sun. Likewise, the ego enables one to operate in the outside world without the self dominating its field of perception.

Our world is just one big beautfiul allegory.

reply to post by dontreally


I doubt that Jung was antisemite of anykind. Jews and their supporters tend to label people with that specific value, everytime they don't like what is said about them. Jung hasn't said anything about race itself, so you cannot call him antisemitic.

We don't know anything about his personal life with 100% certainty. Most of the stories about him are from 2nd and 3rd hand sources and only things we are allowed to judge without danger of grave error, is the ones based on his own writings. And I don't really care about his personal life, but rather about his findings in field of psychology. I've had my experiences and some of his theories seems to support these experiences pretty well. He might've been wrong in place or two (no human is perfect). If he had extramarital relationships, he (according to sources) told it to his wife, and still they lived in marriage until their deaths... I think it's a display of honesty.

Anyway, keep on correcting the misunderstanding people have (or in other words, cast your opinion upon them and hope all will began to think similar ways as you do).



-v

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by dontreally

 

I doubt that Jung was antisemite of anykind. Jews and their supporters tend to label people with that specific value, everytime they don't like what is said about them. Jung hasn't said anything about race itself, so you cannot call him antisemitic.

We don't know anything about his personal life with 100% certainty. Most of the stories about him are from 2nd and 3rd hand sources and only things we are allowed to judge without danger of grave error, is the ones based on his own writings. And I don't really care about his personal life, but rather about his findings in field of psychology. I've had my experiences and some of his theories seems to support these experiences pretty well. He might've been wrong in place or two (no human is perfect). If he had extramarital relationships, he (according to sources) told it to his wife, and still they lived in marriage until their deaths... I think it's a display of honesty.

Anyway, keep on correcting the misunderstanding people have (or in other words, cast your opinion upon them and hope all will began to think similar ways as you do).

-v

Jungs antisemitism
Jung and Antisemtism

You really are a stubborn guy. Im not here trying to make others think like me. When im proven wrong in a conversation i correct my views. Its a staple of humility and a reflection of ones personality. If im willing to put truth ahead of my own egoic image of myself, than i feel good about that. It shows im maturing, spiritually.. I could care less about holding on to incorrect views. In fact, its pretty pathetic when youre proven wrong or you recognize, at least unconsciously beneath the layers of repression that your ego creates, that im wrong. Yet this powerful pressure exerts itself over you like a puppeter. Its total enslavement. In kabbalistic language, there needs to be truth between Yesod and Tiferet (ego and the self). And the channel between them is Aleph, symbolizing emet, truth. . Im stubborn too. But in a very negative way in that i can get a bit zealous to get people to recognize a hole in their argument. I simply can not get or find it difficult to tolerate that some people could come as intelligent,. yet be so blatantly ruled by their ego. Its, simply self defeating. so, this will be my last post to you. Its clear we arent on the same page. Or, even have a remotely similar understanding of Carl Jung. You seem to think psychology is all thei is. Did you not read about Jungs contant mention of Levy-Bruhl, a famous psychologist whos experiement with primitives established that there is some unconscious connectivity between the mind and ones enviroment? He called it participation mystique. What happens is the unconscious force or archetype one is in contact with projects itself outward, into ordinary physical reality. This is the basis of magic. I have personally seen it done and all the great, knowing intellectuals know its completely real. So, psychology considers it 'hokum'. Doesnt mean it is. Thats politics. Its not exactly good for their globalist agenda if people began believing that theres life beyond our physical body. If this were know, the dynamics and mechanics of how the spirit partakes with matter, i imainge more people would reject the popular media shoved down their throat and seek truth in their life. So . Again, a perfect example of gnostic/pagan lying because it serves a greater purpose.

Anyways. back to Jung and his wife. You think their relationship was a display of honesty? You think both partners cheating on each other (she came from one of the wealthiest families in Switzerland) is a healthy relationship? You think Jung is qualified, morally speaking to give advice?

I think you need to read up on gnosticism, cause you seem to know absolutely nothing about it. Its as antinomian as antinomian can get. The fact that Jung admitted and bragged in his letters about his extra-marital affairs sorta reveals what kind of person he was. And his wife? She was just as libertine. She actually attended the funeral of Jungs 2nd wife - as he called her, because he was too emotionally stricken by her death. This is beauitful to you? This to me is a sordid display of "i want whatever makes my life convenient" by two nasty hippcritical aristocrats whose marriage was as phony as phony can get.

Its no coincidence that during WWII rumors were going around that Jung was the Nazis Eminent Grise (that is secret advisor) and given his essay on Wotan (i suggest you read it if you want to know how Jung helped inspire the wotanism and neopaganism revival in germany around that time. And if you think Wotanism is 'nice'. Wotan is the god of strength, terror and raw power. Hes essentially the same archetype that Christans have made of Satan) had a tremendous influence on the German intellectual youth of the 30's.

And Jung actually created a neat little story that his father was a protestant theologian who never knew a thing about mysticism. Now, heres the kicker. Heres the part of his story that if any professional investigator were to learn, would recognize in an instant that his story about his father was all a fabrication. Jungs grandfather, his fathers father, was the grandmaster of Swiss Freemasonry. I mean. Are we to honestly believe (because the liar, cheat, philanderer whose own philosophy and psychology necessitates the need to embrace the dark side of ones personality ie; lying, cheating, exploitation, infidelity etc, if it meets the demands of the 'self'') that someone could have a father involved in a ultra secret fraternity, known for its exclusivity, and status, that his own son didnt know anything about it? Honestly? Even considering his grandfather held the most prestigious position possible within Freemasonry? His dad never encountered his fathers library? Which was surely crammed with books of mysticism, Greek classics, Gnosticism, Alchemy, Catharism, Neo-platonism, etc?

Pleaseeeee. I am not that stupid and anyone who believes and trusts Jungs depiction of his father is a complete and utter moron who clearly doesnt think very deeply.

So read that article. You said Jung wasnt an antisemite? Well. Just type it into google. Jung and Antisemitism,. There are many articles on it. I just chose one. There are 4 or 5 other ones

reply to post by dontreally


whats your own proof of antisemitism ,

i find none in your text , .

more a subjective rant of disgust ?

if jung is an anti semitist then russel is a shaman speaking to the old

Gods were planets.

Uranus father of Saturn father of Jupiter.

If Jupiter(Zeus) were Jesus then Saturn(Cronus) would be his the father the one they call God or the lord of the rings

And he returns with the Water Bearer, all Alchemists are waiting for Saturn's return and all religion is Alchemy.

Look who wears the Saturno Hat, Black or Red.

Thoth is the Metatron and Hermes in sacred geometry, these things He-brews worship.

Saturn is significant in Aquarius to what ever level of understanding anybody desires.

Originally posted by zerbot565
reply to post by dontreally

 

whats your own proof of antisemitism ,

i find none in your text , .

more a subjective rant of disgust ?

if jung is an anti semitist then russel is a shaman speaking to the old

lol

buddy. this is seriously common knowledge.

Google Search : Jung Anti Semitism

Books have been written on it.

reply to post by dontreally


Of course we perceive these things from different perspectives. We are two distinct people with different experiences, different education and so on.

Even if there are few books written about Jung accusing him being antisemitist or even nazi supporter, one has to remember that there are always contradicting opinions about famous people. I've read some of his texts, but I haven't really found anything supporting your claims. I have the feeling that Jung himself briefly mentioned his grandfather's masonic connection in some of his texts (which one, I cannot recall). Also, the reasons why he didn't constantly brought his grandfather's past up, must have other explanations too. For one, Jung disliked theosophians (to whom masons are close), thinking that their reasoning is destructive. Yes, Jung researched gnosticism and alchemy as he seemed to find historical roots for theories of ID, shadow, archetypes and individuation process from them.

Also, I know something about gnosticism too. And yes, Jung wrote about Wotan (Oden), saying that spirit of Wotan overtook (so to speak) german collective consciousness. And he did not praise it as nice phenomena but rather disgusting. He considered it to be a decline towards barbarism, which is evident in today's civilized world. Also, he has noted that assimilation with archetypes (which Wotan, as other gods are) can lead to disastrous consequences.

I have to wonder your enthuasm to talk about Jung and his credibility or incredibility. I see his personality of little importance. It was not Jung who claimed that ancient Israelis were saturn worshippers, but he just echoed these claims, which were originally made by other people. I wonder if you have taken it as a personal offense, when Jung wrote in Seven Sermons: "The dead came back from Jerusalem, where they found not what they sought. They prayed me let them in and besought my word, and thus I began my teaching."?

Anyway, Jung and his commentators are not the issue here, but the apparent connection with Saturn and Judaism. To me the connection seems evident, but I am unsure about its nature. As I said earlier, I will look up any information I find about the issue. So far - to me - your contribution has been the suggestion that saturn inself is not the "god", but symbol of it. Otherwise your post have been pretty much only opinions.

-v

reply to post by dontreally


Okay, I read the articles you provided

Amusing. Now I understand that why Jung was so unpleasant for zionist agenda.

Thanks

-v

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Talmud and the Midrash

In the Babylonian Talmud astrologers are known as kaldiyyim (Pes. 113b),
Aramaic kalda'ei (Shab. 119a, 156b; Yev. 21b) – a term used by the Greeks,
Romans, and Syrians. Iẓtagninin ("astrologers") and iẓtagninut ("astrology")
were also common terms. In the Jerusalem Talmud and in Palestinian Midrashim
astrologos and astrologiyya are the most frequent terms. The majority of the
talmudic sages believed in the decisive role played by celestial bodies in
determining human affairs in the sublunar world. On the one hand the
patriarch Abraham and his descendants are spoken of as having been elevated
beyond subjection to the stars (Gen. R. 44:12; Yal., Jer. 285),
but on the other hand, the blessing bestowed on him in Genesis 24:1
is interpreted as the gift of astrology (Tosef., Kid. 5:17).
Astrological consultation is one of the methods suggested by Jethro to Moses
for governing the Children of Israel (Mekh., Amalek 2). Several instances
are cited of astrologers whose predictions of future events came true
(e.g., Shab. 119a). Gentile rulers were considered to have been especially
well versed in astrology or to have consulted astrological experts; but
knowledge of astrology was also attributed to King Solomon (Eccl. R. 7:23 no. 1).
[...]

I don't see Satrurn as being 'worshiped', but i see Saturn was a Star that brought
periods of social upheavel...it is thought that the conjunction of Saturn, Jupiter
is what the Maji seen as the star-sign of a messiah/king of the Jews being born

read a little bit of the above link of the 'Jewish Library' & discover for yourselves that
mysticism, astrology, occult.... was alive and well among the singular tribal G0d people.




further more the hebrew mystics embraced the ideas that planets/stars ruled over people:

~from the same library link~

KABBALISTIC LITERATURE

The Sefer Yeẓirah contains several astrological passages concerning such topics as the relationship of the seven Hebrew consonants that take a dagesh to the seven planets and the seven days of the week, and the relationship of the 12 simple consonants to the 12 houses of the zodiac and the 12 months. In the Sefer Razi'el ha-Malakh ("Book of the Angel Raziel") the principle basis for a systematic astrology is found, for example: "How can the seers know what a man's life will be as soon as he is born? The ruling planet ascending in the East [at the hour of his birth] is his life's house. If the house of Saturn is in ascension, he will live to be 57, if it is the house of Jupiter, he will live 79 years, and so forth… Saturn presides over wealth, poverty, and the like… Jupiter presides over life, well-being, favorable circumstances, happiness, riches, honor, greatness, and royalty; Mars presides over blood, the sword, and the like… Venus presides over comeliness, grace, appetite… and the like."
[...]

Note that " Jupiter presides over life, well-being, favorable circumstances, happiness, riches, honor, greatness, and royalty; "....."..Saturn presides over wealth, poverty, and the like..."



go look up Saturn in Hebrew or Jewish Astrology to get a greater description of just what powers or characteristics comes along with the transit/appearance of the Star/planet

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by dontreally

 

Okay, I read the articles you provided

Amusing. Now I understand that why Jung was so unpleasant for zionist agenda.

Thanks

-v

Huh?

Jung spent most of his time criticisizing Judaism. Howe exactly does this criticism of the Jewish psychology, as demonstrated through Judaism fit into the 'zionist agenda'?
His criticism is in itself an essential part of Christianity. ie; the Rabbis (Jews) Killing Jesus. This being an allegory for how they believe, in pagan terms, the conscience (symbolized by the Jew) murders the self by inhibiting its full expression through laws, discipline, regiment etc. This is also why of the 12 apostles, the one which betrayed Jesus was Judas, the latinized word for Yehuda, or Yehudi (Jew).

Like # man. The guy builds a reputation for infidelity, by principle, and you still defend his moral authority?

Have you read his essay on Wotan? Jung was a very dark person. He may have had two sides to him. A decent part with a set of principles, values and ethics, which could come off as charming, and another part which completely obeyed an entirely different - and contradictive set of 'laws", dionysian in in character, which made lying, cheating, and serving his animal passions a necessity for his spiritual/psychological 'balance', as Gnostics call it. this off course is complete Hokum. One can live quite happily without developing his darker side, and as he called it 'making room for the dark god" (what a satanic statement). The fact that he reveled in his philandeering and he had built quite a notorious reputation for sleeping with his female patients should atleast call into question his integrity. This society is simply demented. Case in point. Elliot spitzer has a show now on CNN , even despite the whole prostitute scandal a few years back. He pays 10,000 bucks - an innordinate amount to sleep with prostitutes. A few years later this brain damaged society forgets and gives him a chance to share his political judgements with us? seriously?

You give him way too much credit which borders on infatuation. You must know what his moral beliefs are. You must know that he defended moral relativism (like the Jesuit moral probability) and often praized the brutal qualities of the german 'unconscious'; amused by how it overwhelmed the much 'weaker' Jewish psyche during the holocaust. He made comments like this, which, were written as an 'observation' - far enough from being a 'personal opinion' because apparently a psychotherapist like him has licence to pass judgement on damn near everything. Even though a few years earlier, before the war, he had written an essay that inspired many young German intellectuals by revealing to them the deeper inner nature of the ancient Germanic worship of Wotan - personification of qualities we would as a christian civilization ascribe to Satan.

So, conflict of interest, maybe? He can write essays extolling Wotan, make critical statements of Jews (who demonstrated the complete opposite of Germanic spirituality) even garnering a reputation of being a secret advisor to the Nazis yet none of the accusations made against him have any merit? I find it very believable that he was more than capable of having an influence in guiding the Nazi agenda. Especially goebbels (minister of propaganda).

As for the original topic of this thread. It is simply poor scholarship to believe that Jews worship Saturn. Again, theres an inner meaning behind the 7 planets, which has absolutely nothing to do with the planets themselves. This is common knowledge. Please, if you have problem believing me go ask someone else educated in these matters. The 7 'spiritual powers', called in Judaism the 7 lower sefirot, and called in the East the 7 'chakras' are 7 revealed powers of the soul, of reality in general. Everything is channeled through these 7 forces. The planets are merely the conduit of these energies into the physical world, connecting with the abstract 'angelic' realm and the physical by emenating radiations to the terristrial through 7 celestial lights.

For instance, does not the fact that the moon and sun are perfectly equal in size in the sky not suggest something quite mystical, and unnatural? Would you regard this as coincidence? This is a complete reflection of mans inner reality. He has an ego, the moon, and a soul, or self as Jung called, which is the sun. The sun is an overwhelming reality. Just as one cant look straight as his inner self and percieve any determinable nature to it, likewise, one cant look at the sun. Its brightenness is blinding. This is why the creator created an ego, or the moon. It enables one, first, to possess self consciousness, which in itself is a process of 'reflection' - just as the moon reflects the light of the sun. It also diminishes the strength and overwhelming light of the self, which needs to be channeled and expressed in a limited way in order to fully interact with an external reality(external both in a macrocosmic and microcosmic way). Wherever you go the planet Saturn is assigned the same qualities. Same with Mercury, Venus, Jupiter and Mars. Literally, investigate this. This will reveal that the common factor is not the planet, but the archetypal qualities which themselves are associated with planets.