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It does help clarify my friend, but I think your information is in error. I won't dispute it any more than I have already. What I will do is offer myself as a point of reference on the craft. All that I know and am not obligated to hold secret I will share with you if you like. To be clear, I am only not permitted to reveal our ritual work. The reason for this is it spoils the experience for those who may one day take the degrees.
Besides the ritual work, there is a wealth of information that I can share. There are lectures which explain the symbols of the craft, there are the laws (like the Constitution I already provided above), and most important, there are experiences as a Mason. If you are interested with a sincere desire to learn, I will gladly share all of this. If however, you have already made up your mind that you know what the craft is all about, let me know and I will not waste my time.
For the record, I do believe there is a conspiracy to dominate the world. I do see it as being based out of Rome. I do believe the people of this world have become ensnared in a tyrannical empire. What I do not believe is jumping to conclusions and throwing the blame on institutions which exist outside it is any way to bring it down. The truth is, the top will never be uncovered. It exists by the will of the people. The only way to bring it down is by raising the will of the people to do so.
Originally posted by Josephus23
First and foremost, the framework for a secret society allows for bifurcation, or a dual purpose.
An inner circle that is inside the inner circle. A secret society inside of the secret society.
Originally posted by Josephus23
Open freedom society, but secrecy.
And you have secrets, whether you admit it or not.
Originally posted by Epiphron
I have no leanings one way or the other regarding Freemasons, but I think we can all agree that Freemasonry has not been portrayed in a very good light lately. Do you think this could perhaps be attributed to deliberate attempts from the powers behind Rome to smear the organization? Whether Freemasons really are a threat to them or not, surely one can imagine how they might feel that a unified group of citizens bound by oath and devoted to good will and truth may be dangerous to them.
Originally posted by Epiphron
It’s very likely that they are giving freemasonry a bad image through the media to deflect attention away from the real powers running the world. It’s also possible that there may be corruption at the upper levels, but I think this mainstream fascination with painting Freemasons as evil is intentional, so that’s what I’m focusing on.
Originally posted by Epiphron
Also, I know you mentioned that the Grand Lodge is the supreme governing body and each one is completely independent, but do you know if high ranking members between jurisdictions may be connected in any other way?
Originally posted by Epiphron
I vaguely recall hearing of a small and secretive society where only master masons were allowed to join. Now, that might not even be true, but I’m just wondering if you know if any societies or groups like that exist?
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I don’t view Masonry as a threat personally, yet to be completely honest I do think it has a purpose, a grand purpose whose time has not come yet.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Thanks for being a part of that.
Originally posted by xuenchen
IAMIAM, have you read this ongoing thread: "Freemasonry good, but infiltrated?" ?
I havn't seen your name on there yet.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I have not seen all this media attention. Is there something I am missing? Otherwise, I refer to the above.
Here is an important distinction that needs to be made though. There are groups which require a member to be a Freemason which the Grand Lodge recognises as "Masonic", and there are groups that require a member be a Freemason which have nothing to do with Freemasonry at all. This is an important distinction.
The work they do is always done anonymously because they are not looking for fame, fortune, or self gratification. They quietly philosophise and do charitable work without ever making themselves known.
Originally posted by Epiphron
This may be wishful or fantastical thinking on my part, but do you think there are groups like this that are aware of the threat that TPTB pose and are actively taking steps behind the scenes to take them out of power?
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
What that purpose is I truly can not say, yet I don’t believe those who set up the movement set it up to just be a lingering question mark, but set it up as a means to an end.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In our temporal, fluid and ever evolving world, nothing lasts forever, nor is anything meant to last forever, which is why I do believe such institutions are not set up just to exist, but rather to exist for a season and a reason.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I do though also believe that Rome has many different arms seemingly unconnected yet each fulfilling a specific purpose that serves Rome.
I became a Mason when I was a practicing Palero, a priest of the Afro Carribean faith based out of Cuba called Palomayombe. The rituals in Freemasonry are so generic in nature that even I saw similarities with my faith. Mormonism is NOT clandestine Masonry. It is a faith founded by a man who happened to be a Freemason. I know many Mormons and many Masons and a few mormons who happen to be Masons.
Originally posted by orangetom1999
I have myself seen this in operation in the public courts with a lawyer giving the cut throat sign in front of the Judge. The Judge certainly caught it but most of the public in court did not. Those who did ..did not tell. This is a dual system of operation within our courts. The Republican form of government cannot survive such an separate operation within it. It must eventually fall.
So what we have is your sole testimony based on a sign you saw that you do not even know by experience is in fact a sign? Am I understanding this correctly?
Originally posted by orangetom1999
Years ago the Irish carried out a mortar attack on of all places ..the Crown..in Olde London. As I recall the attack was launched from a van with a removable or sliding roof. When the news media got there they came to a heavily fenced wrought Iron area of the Crown. At the top of the fence was the Compass and Square. This played briefly across the news media before it was quickly removed....within a few hours.
Your description of the events leaves much to the imagination here. Is there any trace of the media report still around?
Yes, we treat those within differently than those without. So does a bowling team. So does a football team. So does the Boy Scouts, The United Auto Workers, and every other organisation. Memebership creates a fimiliarity and expectation to support the organisation which one is a member of. In the case of Freemasonry, I trust Masons more than I trust non Masons. Why? Because I know they are held to a higher standard of conduct than the general population.
I am sorry to hear of your loss. If you had loaned it to a Mason, you would have gotten it back!
There is no system of religion within Freemasonry. Here you are just plain wrong. Freemasonry requires of it's members to have a belief in a Supreme Being, however it never questions the petitioner beyond that, nor does it seek to define it beyond that in any of its rituals or ceremonies.
No wonder why IAMIAM found this thread interesting..., we are all brothers..!
He told me the UN was in the process of confiscating Trillions and Trillions of Dollars in assets within the next couple of months and that again no one could do anything about it. I asked if the money was UN money and he said "of course not!"
Originally posted by orangetom1999
I have a different father. If we are all brothers...than the children of the bondwoman shall be heir with the children of the freewoman.
Originally posted by Josephus23
So I suppose that the best that we can do is agree to disagree, because you are too cool of a guy to let a petty difference of belief be the cause of a gulf between trust and respect.
Originally posted by orangetom1999
reply to post by IAMIAM
There is no system of religion within Freemasonry. Here you are just plain wrong. Freemasonry requires of it's members to have a belief in a Supreme Being, however it never questions the petitioner beyond that, nor does it seek to define it beyond that in any of its rituals or ceremonies
I believe you are correct here. This too is my understanding. I was told this years ago by the father of a girl I was dating. He was Scottish Rite. May he rest in Peace. Her father also was the first one to make reference in passing to the idea that there was some kind of rift between certain Masonic Lodges or beliefs and those of Rome/Catholicism. I got the impression that this rift went back very very far in history.
We are all brothers...brothers have the same father.
Originally posted by Josephus23
I am under the impression that the "architect of the universe", or the same universal god whose belief is a requirement for entering into the craft's nature is taught after the 30th degree, and it is "allegorically" that of Lucifer, or think that sometimes they call it "Jahbulon", Prometheus, Helios, etc... (the light bearer, or the SUN).
This "Lucifer" thing is supposed all allegorical of course, but it is is written of several times.
Sometimes blatantly, like Pike in Morals and Dogma.
And sometimes subtly, most times by Manly P. Hall.
BTW.... I don't believe in the whole God/Satan thing.
edit on 12/4/2010 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)
Thank you for the explanation of your theories my friend. This last line says it all and why we will not find common ground. Anything less than one is less than the whole and therefore NOT the one.
I do not mean this as a slight, just a statement reflecting your inability to see that which I see. I am equally blind to see the division which you see. Being blind is not a bad thing.
Judge not, Love all, be at peace
This is representative of the intellect and the humanistic belief of placing man as above God through technological advancement and personal "ethical" work, and this is the effort that places them at the top, or their respective placement in the initiatory pyramid. This was essentially taught by gnostic humanism and the Essenes. It is found throughout the dead sea scrolls and pagan ritual. (But this is never directly taught in the degree work. it is meant to be "understood" through hermeneutic interpretation of symbols. It is allegorical, which gives the protection of mystery)
They are probably the same mystical pagan ritual's that were mimicked by the Babylonians, Egyptians, perhaps the basis of the Oracle at Delphi.
This is why evolution is promoted by big money and eugenics has now been re-branded as genetics.