Australia and Japan still feuding over whaling

Australia and Japan still feuding over whaling
This could always get worse for the Whales "They migrate from warm tropical waters where they breed and calve to arctic waters where they eat."
If we see only Japan doing the Whale Killing in the Southern Hemisphere where is Norway and Iceland doing their "Whale Research". The Northern Hemisphere I guess by arrangement between the three Nations

"they debated a compromise to let Japan, Norway and Iceland hunt the ocean giants openly despite a 1986 moratorium on commercial whaling.

This is No compromise this will be open slaughter. The three Nations sit and wait at their Feeding Grounds, Migrating Corridors or Calving Grounds and let the "Whale Research" begin!

Key players on whaling were wrapping up three days of talks at a Florida beach resort where they debated a compromise to let Japan, Norway and Iceland hunt the ocean giants openly despite a 1986 moratorium on commercial whaling. In return, whaling nations would agree to sharply reduce their catch over a 10-year period and put their activities under the close supervision of the 88-nation International Whaling Commission (IWC).
Japan, which says that whaling is part of its culture, kills hundreds of the ocean giants a year in the Antarctic Ocean, revolting Australians and New Zealanders who enjoy whale-watching as a popular pastime.

Japan uses a loophole in the 1986 moratorium that allows "lethal research" on whales, with the meat winding up on dinner plates

PM Kevin Rudd and Japan's Katsuya Okada seeks whaling standoff solution
Japanese Whale Hunting- REAL reasons???
Anti-Whaling ship, Bob Barker, collide with Japanese fleet
ATS: Whaling



Zelong.

I am wondering what do the regular people of Australia think? and what do the regular people of Japan think? Is this a issue of governments or do the people have a vested interest in it? I am very curious on this issue. I personally think it is wrong and they should stop. It is one thing to take a animal that is very plentiful whales are not that plentiful.


Flag for OP

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Subjective Truth]

I think its disgusting the world does nothing to push Japan into stopping this.

The only reason Japan are allowed to kill these whales is because they found a small loophole in the rules. They are allowed to kill whales for scientific research.

Problem is, there's NO scientific research going on, if you walk around the shops in Japan you'll see the whale meat on sale.

Watching the footage of the whaling ship ramming the new sophisticated anti-whaling vessel is shocking. In the middle of the ocean, in freezing waters they smashed that small boat up, then sprayed the floundering crew with a high pressure water canon.

I like Japan, and its people, but this is an issue in which they lose a hell of a lot of respect.

reply to post by Zelong

I think this slaughter under the umbrella of science should stop.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
I am wondering what do the regular people of Australia think?

The reality is, that all this is happening in international waters well beyond the 200 mile limit.
There is not a whole lot the Aussie government can do about it, besides protest.

I would guess the opinions of most Australians would range from being very strongly against whaling, to neutral. I cannot imagine too many people here being pro whaling.

One of the original election planks of the Rudd government was that they opposed Japanese whaling. But realistically, there is not a lot they can do about it.

We should just let Australia deal with this, and we should worry about our fishermen using drift nets, or drag nets killing large swaths of Ocean life in the process.

The reality is, that Japan is a small country with a very high population density, and very limited farming and fishing resources of it's own.
Whale meat is an important part of the Japanese diet.

While Australians don't like this whaling, I very much doubt if it will end until there are too few whales left to make hunting them economically viable.

Overfishing is now becoming a worldwide problem, and just one more way we are rapidly screwing up our own future on this planet.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

Watching the footage of the whaling ship ramming the new sophisticated anti-whaling vessel is shocking. In the middle of the ocean, in freezing waters they smashed that small boat up, then sprayed the floundering crew with a high pressure water canon.

I like Japan, and its people, but this is an issue in which they lose a hell of a lot of respect.

Being a Grandson of one off the POW's Japan Enslaved, their Myth of Honorable Warrior is still nothing more than Cowardly Actions! with excuses such as "it's Honorable to cut your head off while your unarmed" or "Japan, which says that whaling is part of its culture".

I uploaded the Ady Gil run down by whaling ship, 7 January on ATS Media but I don't see the mount on ATS code. Link not working




Zelong.

[edit on 4/3/10 by Zelong]

I'm an Australian and I really don't have a problem with whaling as long as it's done in a manner that won't cause any species to become extinct.

The knee jerk reaction by many people in this country that oppose whaling "because they are beautiful animals" is ludicrous in my opinion. You'd be amazed how many times I've had this discussion with people while they are hoeing into a piece of lamb or a steak.

I can respect people's views on the matter if they are total vegans or whatever they are called that don't eat any animal products on principle, however I think you'll find most Australians love a good bit of beef or lamb, and therefore make themselves hypocrites when opposing whaling.

Slaughtering animals for food is a nasty business - try visiting an abattoir to really see where you meat comes from. I can't see any difference between this and whaling, again if the whales are no endangered.

There hasn't been enough research done on whale numbers, but all indications are there's a lot of whales in the ocean. I used to be a sailor and would see hundreds of them in the late 90's.

Japan does itself no favours by disguising it's commercial hunt as research - they should just come out and call it for what it is.

It's one are where Japan feels it can let off a bit of steam foreign policy wise, and the more Australia opposes it with irrational arguments while we slaughter kangaroos by the thousands, the more determined Japan will be to give us the finger on this issue. Our impotent Minister for Fluffy Animals, Peter Garret, leading the charge doesn't help at all either.

If the Australian government really wants whaling to stop, then they should send the Navy down there and force them to stop - but they better be prepared to face off against a much more well equipped Navy that will defend their interests.

In my opinion Sea Shepherd should be arrested when they come to Australia. They are attention seeking extremists that carry out acts of piracy on a regular basis. I hope the guy that sneaked onto the Japanese ship is taken back to Tokyo and thrown in jail.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I think its disgusting the world does nothing to push Japan into stopping this.

The only reason Japan are allowed to kill these whales is because they found a small loophole in the rules. They are allowed to kill whales for scientific research.

Problem is, there's NO scientific research going on, if you walk around the shops in Japan you'll see the whale meat on sale.

Watching the footage of the whaling ship ramming the new sophisticated anti-whaling vessel is shocking. In the middle of the ocean, in freezing waters they smashed that small boat up, then sprayed the floundering crew with a high pressure water canon.

I like Japan, and its people, but this is an issue in which they lose a hell of a lot of respect.

1) Loophole.

Please explain to me how the Japanese research whaling program is exploiting a loophole? For reference, here's the relevant text of the IWC's convention on whaling.

Article VIII

1. Notwithstanding anything contained in this Convention any Contracting Government may grant to any of its nationals a special permit authorizing that national to kill, take and treat whales for purposes of scientific research subject to such restrictions as to number and subject to such other conditions as the Contracting Government thinks fit, and the killing, taking, and treating of whales in accordance with the provisions of this Article shall be exempt from the operation of this Convention. Each Contracting Government shall report at once to the Commission all such authorizations which it has granted. Each Contracting Government may at any time revoke any such special permit which it has granted.
2. Any whales taken under these special permits shall so far as practicable be processed and the proceeds shall be dealt with in accordance with directions issued by the Government by which the permit was granted.
3. Each Contracting Government shall transmit to such body as may be designated by the Commission, in so far as practicable, and at intervals of not more than one year, scientific information available to that Government with respect to whales and whaling, including the results of research conducted pursuant to paragraph 1 of this Article and to Article IV.
4. Recognizing that continuous collection and analysis of biological data in connection with the operations of factory ships and land stations are indispensable to sound and constructive management of the whale fisheries, the Contracting Governments will take all practicable measures to obtain such data.

iwcoffice.org...

Japan is actually operating within the framework of the convention, as opposed to exploiting a loophole, which would involve exploiting a lack of legal coverage (ie. a loophole).

2) The scientific research program outlines, presentations to the IWC's Scientific Evaluation body, and a list of published and non published data sets and articles can be found here:

www.icrwhale.org...

Furthermore, research catches are an accepted method of determining stocks for commercial viability. Some examples of Australian run research catch programs:
www.dpiw.tas.gov.au...

And another
And here
and here

3) The Ady Gil.



Please note the following: (a) proximity warning sirens from Japanese vessel, (b) forward motion wake from the Ady Gil, (c) acceleration of Ady Gil (increase in wake) at the 16 second mark.

Any questions?



[edit on 4-3-2010 by vox2442]

reply to post by Snappahead

The fact is we don't know what their numbers are. But given the increased human caused environmental pressure they are already under, including pollution and a shortage of food, we should be doing what we can to protect them.
Japanese kill dolphins too; watch the Cove and see if you still feel the same way.
Don't get your comparison to sheep. Big difference between domesticated sheep and a wild whale. Sheep are one of stupidest animals on the face of the earth and should be eaten.
Pretty clear the Japaneses are in it for the money and the Sea Shepard is in it for the whales.
Sea Shepard should continue to harass the Japanese every chance they get.

reply to post by sadwolf


I've seen the cove and yes it's disturbing, but as I said in my first post so are the scenes in any abattoir. While I value your right to an opinion, I can't agree that there is any difference in your example between sheep and whales. Either way you look at it, an animal is killed so people can eat it. It's confronting, but that's the cold reality of it.

Now I do agree that we don't know for sure how many whales there are, but that's exactly why research needs to be done to find out the levels that can be harvested for a sustainable fishery. Whether we like it or not, other countries will want to harvest whales. No matter how many Chardonnay sipping Aussies are concerned about whaling, in reality there's is nothing we can do about it if another country wants to harvest them. We're not about to send our Navy out to protect whales, and we're not about to take Japan to court over it either as we would lose. About the only thing you could do is get Aussies to boycott Japanese products, but I don't think our "concerned citizens" would last to long without their TV's and Wii's.

We shoot thousands of Kangaroos in Australia every year that end up on people's dinner plates and the the bowls of countless dogs. There's still plenty of Kangaroo's about, yet PETA and other extremist complain it is wrong. How is it different to whaling?

By the way, I've eaten dolphin before and it's damn tasty

I am wondering what do the regular people of Australia think?

I think there is no problem with japan harvesting small yearly numbers of non endangered species for any purpous.
I dont have a problem with whales they do catch ending up on dinner plates,(waste not want not) but I do have a problem with their transparent pretext.
Claiming 'lethal research' is bunkum and offensive to anyone with common sense.
We are generally against whaling in Australian Territorial waters, against law. Let them have one place where they are not hunted. If whalers enter our territorial waters to hunt them, we should sink them, no mucking around.
Were it economical feasable, Australia should place an embargo/sanctions on japanese imports of anything until they stop.
They want us to respect their culture (whaling) then they need to respect ours too.

Now I do agree that we don't know for sure how many whales there are, but that's exactly why research needs to be done to find out the levels that can be harvested for a sustainable fishery.

Exactly, japan dosent seem to intrested in doing so, no data from their so called 'research' has yet been made available.

The reality is, that Japan is a small country with a very high population density, and very limited farming and fishing resources of it's own.
Whale meat is an important part of the Japanese diet.

Right, so why not export our kangaroo culls to japan, as we now prpose exporting cane toads to china? Perhaps japan finds the idea of eating roo's
disgusting or wrong? If they are so desperately in need of food, beggars cannot be choosers.
I imagine they could import whatever food they needed anyway, they are probably second only to chinas economic status with their exoports of tecknology. Most products in aussy homes are from china, followed closely by japan.

[edit on 5-3-2010 by wayaboveitall]

reply to post by wayaboveitall


Actually, there is some data available on the ICR Website. Not very conclusive though.

Originally posted by Snappahead
reply to post by wayaboveitall

 

Actually, there is some data available on the ICR Website. Not very conclusive though.

More to the point of Data on "Whale Research" JARPA/JARPAII
papers published in peer-reviewed journals they are not to forthcoming with their research papers Find them if you can!

This is nothing more than INTEL on where to Harpoon a Whale(Whalers Hand Book).

1990
Ichii, T. and Kato, H. 1990. Food of southern minke whales from Japanese research take in 1987/88. Paper SC/42/SHMi14 presented to the IWC Scientific Committee, June 1990 (unpublished). 15pp.

Every document is (unpublished)


Zelong.

[edit on 5/3/10 by Zelong]

Originally posted by Zelong
Every document is (unpublished)


Zelong.

This is the one you posted, which is the data presented at committee, while this one and this one, which are found under the title: "Papers published in peer-reviewed journals", contain a list of papers published in peer reviewed journals.

Go figure.