EMP Attack in the UK

reply to post by butcherguy


Actually, I prefer to save my tin foil for BBQs, turkey and cooking potatoes in an open fire.

Certainly would not use it as an RF shield.

EMP? From where? If an EMP goes off I think you have more to worry about... like shockwaves of a nuclear explosion racing at you at 1200 km/h. In all seriousness, if an EMP goes off worry about having food water and protection aka guns n knives. I have some camping gear myself for any random run for the hills scenario. Best I can say is avoid people you don't know, chances are they will be hungry and won't mind taking your # seeing as the police would be just about non existent... unless martial law is declared in which case you still don't want to be around people. EMP fries circuits, handle your basic tools: shovel, ax, knife, fire starters, guns n dope, fishing wire/hooks, compass, aid kit, filters, etc. That way if your stuck by yourself without technology (electronics) you'll at least be self sufficient. But sure wrap your gizmos in tin foil, can't hurt.

From what I understand, the only way to protect your stuff from an EMP attack is to have it unplugged or dissconected from the grid. But whats the point? The entire grid would be down potentialy for months with just one nuclear explosion above middle America. I had a really interesting conversation with a friend who is in the Airforce about this very issue. It's scary to realise that as a nation we aren't really prepared for such an attack. Make sure to have a few months of food and water stored just in case and have some coin available for trade. Gold coins like the Swiss Franc 20 is a good choice. Its a gold coint at 1/5 and ounce gold that can be exchanged for cash for emergencies. Since it's not US currency it can't be seized by the government. Just a few ideas to help you prepare if the poop hits the fan.

EMP can affect your stuff in two ways. It can directly induce a current in any conductive material, which can directly fry very sensitive electronics. The other way EMP affects things is by inducing a current in the power lines, which, due to their length, is much larger than what it can cause in the electronics themselves. The magnitude of the power surge that would cause is likely to be bigger than what any normal surge protector can handle, and will fry anything plugged in.

The problem isn't really that vacuum tubes are necessarily better than all transistors at high voltages and currents; modern SCRs and power transistors can handle that just fine. The problem is that modern integrated circuits are designed to operate at as low a voltage as possible, and use as little power as possible. While this is normally a good thing because it reduces power consumption and cooling needs, high voltage surges can easily wreck things.

Anyway, protecting your own stuff is of little importance because local society as a whole is going to be screwed. You'll be lucky if you can get food to eat. It's a better idea to stock up on the necessities than on electronics.

Well rubber might do it to protect your stuff. But what are the odds you will have your protection over your stuff when the EMP goes off.

EMPs can be produced by weapons other than nuclear devices. A nuclear EMP weapon might br hundreds of miles above the ground and might only have a small yield.

Equipment connected to the mains is likely to be destroyed, even if switched off. Placing items enclosed in a good insulator in a faraday cage will help. A high mu cage with a highly conductive outer is best. A lead layer will also help protect from gamma from a nuclear explosion. It doesn't matter if your battery or mains systems are on or off.

Grounding the faraday cage isn't required but is recommended.

Originally posted by LatentElement
Prisoner is right. But, if I may add ...
Copper foil is a better conductor ... but costs way more.
Also, this last step is very important:
To protect against an EMP your 'cage' must be grounded or the pulse will set your cage up like a powerful electromagnet as it washes over it ... and erase, fry and otherwise render useless what you've put in there.
Also, if an electronic gadget is powered off ...and completely discharged, (no back-up power source saving settings, etc) it will not be affected.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but other than saying prisoner is right and that copper is more conductive than aluminum, which is correct, you have some bad information.

I know of no reason why having a device unplugged or turned off would protect it from an EMP. The EMP essentially induces large electrical currents into any circuits it encounters, and as far as I know from my EE training it can just as easily fry a device that's unplugged or turned off as one that's turned on. If you're thinking of lightning strikes that can surge through the power lines, then what you say may be true, but for an EMP weapon, detonated near the gear, I don't see why it has to be plugged in to be fried.

The proper faraday cage is probably best, and grounding it is a good idea, but again even if it's not grounded, I'm not aware that it will be ineffective.

What might make the foil ineffective is if you only wrap it in one layer and you don't get good conductivity between the layers of the foil, like where the ends meet, that could allow the EMP to leak inside. But if you wrap the gear in 2 layers of foil, I think it would provide decent protection, and possibly even if not grounded. Depending on how much current the EMP generates, heavy duty foil would be able to carry more current and might work better than thin foil, and again, a proper Faraday cage is probably much thicker than either and would work best. Yes copper foil might work too but I've never even seen copper foil so I don't know how readily available it is.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
[ know of no reason why having a device unplugged or turned off would protect it from an EMP.

The proper faraday cage is probably best, and grounding it is a good idea, but again even if it's not grounded, I'm not aware that it will be ineffective.

Being unplugged will help because of heave from a nuclear EMP. The heave (deflection and return of the Earths magnetic field) induces current in the power lines, sending huge surges down them.

A faraday cage works whether grounded or not but grounding stops the cage remaining charged.

Proper shielding from the worst EMPs is quite difficult, even faraday cages can fail at the highest field gradients and the higher energy gammas are quite difficult to stop without substantial shielding.



[edit on 27/1/2010 by LightFantastic]

Originally posted by LightFantastic

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
[ know of no reason why having a device unplugged or turned off would protect it from an EMP.

The proper faraday cage is probably best, and grounding it is a good idea, but again even if it's not grounded, I'm not aware that it will be ineffective.

Being unplugged will help because of heave from a nuclear EMP. The heave (deflection and return of the Earths magnetic field) induces current in the power lines, sending huge surges down them.

A faraday cage works whether grounded or not but grounding stops the cage remaining charged.

Proper shielding from the worst EMPs is quite difficult, even faraday cages can fail at the highest field gradients and the higher energy gammas are quite difficult to stop without substantial shielding.

That sounds a lot more logical, but still if you really want to protect even equipment that's not plugged in, it would be best to shield it, as I believe it can still be fried even if it's not plugged in, even without the heave or surge through the power lines, but i agree that could make it worse.

reply to post by minkey53


A tin foil hat would be better for you.

Run for the hills the mosloms are coming with their home made EMP flashers.

Tin foil is an excellent shield and i urge you to wallpaper your entire house inside and out and then paint over it to avoid dazzling the neighbours or you can use it as a solar mirror to focus sunlight on to your barbecue and save energy.

a tin foil hat also also stops cellphone radiation.

my tip to you is get a baseball cap and line the underside with a double layer so you won't look stupid walking outside.

or get a metal hard hat and wear it to bed.

another good shield is an microwave oven enclosure case.

just remove all the electronics and wear that or keep your electronic valuables.


you can even wear it on your head like a spacesuit helmet.it has a window.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
That sounds a lot more logical, but still if you really want to protect even equipment that's not plugged in, it would be best to shield it, as I believe it can still be fried even if it's not plugged in, even without the heave or surge through the power lines, but i agree that could make it worse.

Yes that's true, an EMP weapon has a number of distinct effects including electrical gradient, magnetic gradient and also ionising radiation and heave with nuclear blasts.

Generally the larger the scale of electronic integration the worse the problem becomes.

Some nuclear EMP weapons are small yield nuclear devices designed to be detonated hundreds of miles above ground so the effect of the actual blast would be minimal but the EMP itself could be devastating, perhaps to the entire country. It is the ideal first strike weapon as it knocks out power generation and communications which in turn knocks out other essentials such as the water supply.

To my knowledge none of the Western infrastructure is hardened against EMP including most military systems.

Would a gun cabinet (steel) be a useful faraday cage?
It's 'anchored' into the wall via 4 metal masonry bolts. These should act as a ground.

well since there isnt really a portable emp machine(like some films might have you believe)...I would be more worried about the nuclear bomb, that created the emp.

[edit on 1-2-2010 by MR BOB]

One variation on the Faraday cage principle I heard is to permanently bolt ammo containers or something else similarly built into the boot (trunk for you yanks) of your vehicle. - And you have a number of shielded compartments!.

This would be of particular advantage if your car is an older design... You simply have spares of any of the parts of the electrical system that are critical for the engine running - throw them in there and forget about them until EMP day, then when everyone else's vehicle is kaput you (theoretically) have serviceable spares...

Simple and solid electrical equipment could probably take a good old EMP if it is not powered up. Any thing that has very small electrical tolerances will fry weather or not it is powered up... An overwhelming electrical charge will be induced into the circuitry shorting out and frying all the components.... So anything with transistors, microchips, resistors and fuses (especially for the lowest resistance ratings) diodes etc.

But the ammo tins in the back of the vehicle with a nice tasty earth strap bolted right to the frame was a tip from some marines REME's - so I would trust it.

Originally posted by WatchRider
Would a gun cabinet (steel) be a useful faraday cage?
It's 'anchored' into the wall via 4 metal masonry bolts. These should act as a ground.

Run a grounding wire to your plumbing... Where the cold mains water comes in would make a perfect Earth.

[edit on 1/2/2010 by Now_Then]

Have you seen the size of my microwave!!

There is no way my PC is gonna fit in there!!