The Veil between Universes.

There’s a thin veil dividing realities. An entirety of all there is or could be, is just millimetres away; infinite universes, containing an infinite number of stars and worlds expanding outwards and inwards in infinite volumes, all sharing the same space.

Within these, the same universal, material laws and physical constants we recognize as correct struggle to co-exist alongside chaotic realms seemingly devoid of logic or rule. Each is as different as the next, even if in the slightest change or configuration. If we could peer through, we might recognize ourselves existing in alternative circumstances that are bizarre to our sensibilities. We may also find other version of ourselves living in exactly the same circumstances as we do here.

Beyond this horizon, all is possible and all has happened. Though we may chose to try and define what lies beyond the veil, we do so only within the limits of our present understanding and attempt to describe it by means of comforting language and the reliability of mathematical formulae.

This is a mistake.

We expect the reality of all differing life to be quantifiable. We expect to be able to formalize it and for it to correspond to acceptable models.

This is arrogance.

How do we expect to define realities that will not conform to our methods of description when we do not conform to theirs?

Sometimes the veil rips.

If life becomes sufficiently complex that it attains self-awareness, it becomes part of its own self-referencing reality. Other universes are created to contain that consciousness, where it will perhaps develop differently. Thus, we may see reflections of ourselves elsewhere – in these other universes – living lives that are not our own. This does not mean that our own consciousness is reduced. It is bifurcated innumerable times. It begins anew, separate from the initial waking form, created incomplete but containing that primary realization.

We are all gods, in that respect, yet we live because of others. All is entangled.

Our thoughts create life.

Every defining intention, consideration and concept is both true and false and survives as an independent consideration. Even those that defy logic. We are separate from new existence by a spatio-temporal veil. We all live in island universes.

Life does not necessarily advance at the same rate. Time is a fundamental element of existence, but it is also subject to where it is situated at any given instant. Here on Earth, we have achieved what we assume is a high level of technology, but elsewhere we may well be in throws of moving out of the forests, an industrial revolution, or astride the stars.

Remember, all is possible;

worlds and moons of multiple solar systems connected by iron chains;

the surreal sight of constant-concept mechanisms - devoid of their creators, passengers or pilots who are long since become light - traversing one of the oldest universes using the power of algorithm engines. They persuade their curious universe with beguiling conundrums – such as altering the wave-particle duality of energy and matter in such a way that a photon’s angular momentum is randomly quantized even when bound to an atom - to crease the space between the staging posts for their eon-long game of chase;

the frustration of relatives of the Human race as they search constantly for the defining effect that is a metaphysical juxtaposition to its cause and therefore separate to determinism, as they believe it will prove the existence of a droll God;

the unchanging beam of light that pierces one thousand, one hundred and eleven universes. When approached, and irrelevant of their species, all who dare to reach out and touch it hear the same word: “No.”

But let’s not be complacent. The stuff of nightmares also exists. Reality does not choose to perform just to our rules.

In some universes, the stuff of the stars and planets is churned into a vision of hellfire by unbalanced, corporeal forces, devoid of positive spiritual influence, and run amok spewing sentient paradigms that challenge reason. In these brutal extremes, those intelligences that have found ways to climb beyond the rudimentary spark of existence live within dreadful environs, writhing in the embrace of emotions we can only assume are madness and anger and pain. Yet, they thrive. They move between their stars in lamenting hordes, annihilating lesser, wretched animate masses only to sow the seeds of new life on transformed soil so that the cycle may continue. To us, they are mindless and bent on the fulfilment of an egotistical will. To their harvest, they are doing the work of the mind of the creator.

Yet more mutated universes - where the organic distribution of substance imposed by the natural flow matter is eschewed in favour of lawless, uncontrollable disorder - disgorge life without regard for form or structure. Beauty has no place here. There, vast travesties of life span the breadths of deformed worlds - floating within the influence of galaxies whose aesthetic appearance we would deem repulsive - lonely and afraid, looking to the skies for companionship yet unwilling to consider finding a way to leave their homes.

And what of the universe that still stands frozen at the point of an Initial Event, all of the unimaginable energy that eventually would have produced life that would have become liberating gods, locked in place as a motionless explosion? Picture that brilliant, solid, detonating snowflake lost in an eternity of blackness. How would we cope with the concept of that absurdity existing if we were able to look upon it, no matter the fact that it exists because the intelligence that caused it formed an unanswerable question at the moment of ignition that will forever distract it from finishing its task?

Time runs independently in each universe because it is one of the primary structures. (Though the disordered frenzy of chaotic universes would seem to argue against this, they are possibly the sand in the machine therefore automatically reside in their own sealed manifolds of reality, separate to those that adhere to natural laws, whilst still being observable.)

Where time races in one universe, it may crawl in others. It still measures the same. Think of the train of cogs in a clock; the smallest spin faster than the largest, yet as a whole they produce a single product.

Sometimes the veil is ripped deliberately through technology.

Sometimes it is ripped for a reason that we cannot fathom.

All universes see strange things they cannot explain because of this.

reply to post by Beamish


I like your style Beamish. You put a lot of thought into that. Nice read I have to say. A star and flag for you.

reply to post by Beamish


I very much enjoyed reading your OP. It is beautifully written.
S&F for you.

reply to post by Beamish


I second FiatLux, excellent style.

Although, I'd like to add a hypothesis of my own.

If all of the above is true, wouldn't it logically follow that there are also universes which are not divided by this thin veil? After all, if all extant universes are to be divided by this veil, oughtn't there be at least one of the infinitely possible universes to be connected to another minus a veil? two, three, or infinitely many universes connected in a limited multiverse?

If I'm not clear, here's what I'm describing.

Your example, where A, B, and C are Universes separated by the veil.

((A) (B) (C) Multiverse)

An example of multiple universes within multiple multiverses where A and B are a subset of Limited Multiverse 1, where A and B can interact sans veil, and C and D, which are a subset of Limited Multiverse 2 and can interact sans veil, and where Limited Multiverses 1 and 2 are subsets of the highest Multiverse which is separated by a veil.

(((A) (B)Limited Multiverse 1) ((C) (D) Limited Multiverse 2)) MULTIVERSE)

And, according to your own logic, wouldn't there, then, be an unlimited quantity of those multiverses also? ad infinitum?

reply to post by FiatLux


reply to post by jeanvaljean


To the both of you, thanks for your extremely kind comments. Hope my post got you thinking.

reply to post by Epsilon5


Thank you Epsilon5 for your reply.

If all of the above is true, wouldn't it logically follow that there are also universes which are not divided by this thin veil?

Of course.

An addendum: When I say “the” veil that separates universes, I am by my own logic (and because I live in a relatively normal universe) referring to only one veil. But, because all things are possible, there are multiple veils.

Hopefully, the ones that divide us from the hellish universes are distinctly stronger from those that can be ripped, otherwise…

That there are dedicated bubbles of reality containing:

(((A) (B)Limited Multiverse 1) ((C) (D) Limited Multiverse 2)) MULTIVERSE)

is another probability, and makes the whole concept even more fascinating.

When we see truly strange anomalies; bizarre, comic book “aliens”, unusual animals, Humans on flying platforms in the 1920’s etc. it is perfectly allowable to expect that they have not torn a “veil”, but somehow side-stepped their own reality and entered ours, even for the briefest of times.

As to how they have accomplished this is another matter, if they have physically accomplished anything at all. Can we honestly say that all “aliens” – as in beings supposedly from distant planets – that we see be from our own universe? The possibility is no, and, of course, yes. Perhaps many species just stumble through into our realm, and are as surprised to see us as we are them.

Alternatively, in these universes that follow us closely behind us invisible and silent and undivided, perhaps the phenomenon of witnessing anomalous activity is not only accepted, but avidly researched and encouraged.

Those who have realized that rips in reality can be exploited may be making the shortest of journeys. It is as viable an explanation of the high strangeness we are subject to as a species as any other.

All things are possible.

I am searching for information about the possibility of a person slipping between or crossing over into another dimension or universe. This is not idle thought , but very real research, based on my own experience. Any help would be appreciated.

beamish how can you be like that....dude

you said we were arrogant to form religion out of this life reality..
and then three inches down the column you said we are all gods and we creat life with our thoughts.

i need to be in your presence to explain to you, that you don't want to be known as the kind of person that has no Biblical God
if we could talk in person, that's what i'd say

reply to post by GBP/JPY

you said we were arrogant to form religion out of this life reality..
and then three inches down the column you said we are all gods and we creat life with our thoughts.

You are confusing the One universe – this reality - with the Many; we share this reality, you and I.

This reality is the One; here it is true that many Gods rule over countless people. Calculate the number of deities we have worshipped, or still revere, and consider this; They may all be facets of one Whole, each separated from that Whole by Man’s arrogance and the need for power and venerated as an absolute.

Even in the most fleeting glimpse of God, there is a visible truth.

Amongst the Many – the multiple Universes - God is recast, changed, adapted according to the whims of thought, unrecognizable and diverse to our eyes.

Does that contradict your religion?

It shouldn’t.

It shows that God can be anywhere, at any given time, in any given form.

i need to be in your presence to explain to you, that you don't want to be known as the kind of person that has no Biblical God
if we could talk in person, that's what i'd say

Not in this Universe.




[edit on 18-2-2010 by Beamish]

[edit on 18-2-2010 by Beamish]

reply to post by Beamish


Beamish mate...

Brilliantly put.
Have to agree with FiatLux - I like your style.

Definitely a definite definition...!!
It's good to see that others can put into words, the culmination of the many many trains of thought, which I wouldn't be able to.
If I tried to explain what you have done but in my own words, it'd be utter nonsense.

Once again, brilliant...keep thinkin'!

Much love...

The OP reminds me of an interesting experience I had once after smoking the magical herb Salvia Divinorum, which is a completely legal hallucinogenic drug. I will share it with you ( the experience, not the drug ;P )

Alone, seated on my bed, in my room at 6:45pm with my pipe, a lighter, and a copy of the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying for good karma. My brother was in a living room nearby watching Family Guy. I smoke the 20x salvia extract and hold it in my lungs. Feeling a cloudy sensation, I lay back with my arms over my face and close my eyes. My consciousness sinks down through the bed, like diving under water. The ceiling becomes a 2-dimensional image and begins to spiral away from me as i am immersed into this liquid realm. As I am falling away from this spiralling image, I hear voices chanting "he is trapped in the collateral image" and I knew that these voices were referring to my fixation on this "2D reality". I felt like I was being disconnected from this 2D Reality which was my entire life, or rather my body. This 2D image then spiraled off into the distance, away from me like a giant space worm and I was floating in a bubble of my own consciousness.

Then I was against some sort of membrane, and felt one or more presences on the other side that seemed familiar. I had a distinct feeling that this was the barrier I must cross when I die. The edge of the universe. As I tried to pass through the wall, I could heard a beautiful voice on the other side saying "Open your real eyes, Open your real eyes, Open your real eyes!" and I felt that if I could "open my real eyes" I would burst into this other realm. The voice seemed excited and was encouraging me. I tried to open my "real eyes" with the force of my will (the same will power that you use in a lucid dream) but I could not open my "real eyes". I couldn't break through. I could feel myself in this other realm, but it was as if I was sleeping. In hindsight, I think "open your real eyes" may have meant "smoke more salvia". After being unable to open my "reaI eyes" I opened my "physical" eyes here on planet Earth. At this point I saw my bedroom ceiling again, but I was still not quite back in my body. The 2D image of my ceiling was still floating in front of me and I was attached to it by this spiral cord. At this point I had completely forgotten about my physical existence and thought to myself "OH #, ITS REALITY!" and I laughed because the experience was so fresh and profound in my memory. I then remember exhaling and feeling like I was coming back. The same voices/presence that was chanting "trapped in the collateral image" had returned and I could sense that they were doing something to reconnected my consciousness to my body. This presence felt very technical, industrial, and artificial. It seemed like they were veiled somehow and I couldn't see them. As I was being reconnected to my body I had this vision of our planet and a dark, technological force around it. I felt this presence somehow connected to the television in the living room. As I returned to my body I began to hear this strange morphing sound which seemed evil. As this strange sound began to unravel, it slowly sped up until I realized that it was the sound of the TV playing "Family Guy" in the living room. I sat up and exhaled. I was back.

reply to post by Veejay

I am searching for information about the possibility of a person slipping between or crossing over into another dimension or universe.

How do we know we don’t traverse between Universes all the time, even if for the shortest of periods?

We may not notice.

The difference between them could be the subtlest of variations, the smallest of clues, even the biggest pointer that is too huge for our awareness to allow recognition.

Taking it further, could unexpected emotions indicate outside influence? You hear a song for the first time that simply enthralls you; you have to stop and listen. Rationality dictates that it is appealing to your creative mind, or that its tones and cadences create pleasing resonances within your brain. Both are true, and so is the concept that you’ve actually heard it before, but not here.

What about that person – whom you meet for the first time - that you instantly take a liking to and get on with as if you are old, old friends?

Or the one that you dislike from the off?

Are they new acquaintances triggering a pleasing or uncomfortable reaction to a similar or opposite intellect that triggers a reassuring or unpleasant cocktail of chemicals in your head, or something else?

How would you define traversing Universes if the travel is so quick, and leaves but faint echoes?

This is not idle thought , but very real research, based on my own experience. Any help would be appreciated.

Do, please, expand on your experiences.

reply to post by zosomike


Many thanks for your kind words. Glad you liked mine.

reply to post by avatar01


You recount a most interesting experience.

I cannot condone the usage of psychedelics, but find fascinating their effects on the Human mind. Those effects and their intriguing consequences will, for me, remain purely descriptions gleaned from others.

I do, however, envy you your journey.

reply to post by Beamish


Fair play first of all for your hard work and input into this. It is an interesting subject. However, how do you justify all this? And how did you come to this conclusion on life and the viel of the universe?

The reason i ask these important questions is because i spoke to unbelievably wise man the other day up the pub, and he discussed similar, very simliar. We both came to the same conclusion with the illusion of reality and twin universes etc.

Regards,

Unstable Affliction

There is a problem with the use of any hallucinogenic drug, no matter if it`s legal or not. What happens is, the human body is already set up to do many things, one, the bodies immune system. If a person were to take a drug to stop a headache each and everytime the person gets one, the body would stop using it`s natual defence system because the drug is there to do it for the body. Hence, we kill our own natural defence system. Second,the same thing happens with the pineal gland. The pineal gland is the key that unlocks the door we call the veil between this reality and whats on the other side of that veil. When we use drugs to "turn on the pineial gland", or open the door if you will, and the over use of the drug will sometimes over stimulate the pineial gland. The drug can act as a lubricant so to say, to open the door. But, the over use of it stops what the body does naturally. And the over use of it can cause the door to be stuck open. That is why we have many people who many believe to be "crazy", or stuck in another reality other then this one. That is why the use of drugs should not be used for anything.

Even I have noticed with myself, if I were to go to a doctor and get something to fight off a cold with, yes it works, but, the next time I do get a cold, my body doesn`t even try to fight it. If I would have let the body fight it off naturally, it would have fought it off the same way the next time I get a cold. But like many people, WE JUST CAN`T WAIT. So then, we pay the price. The same goes for using drugs just for getting a high. We may just get a high sometime that we may regret. We need to just let the body do what it does naturally when it comes to these things, be it fighting infections, or opening that door that we call the veil.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by FiatLux]

reply to post by Beamish

Last year I began experiencing a lot of confusion as I went around town, by seeing new buildings that I didn't see being built, what felt like differences in the way things like overpasses and exits were constructed, but I laughed it off, seriously wondering if I was really that oblivious. But I am known for noticing details, so it made me quite uncomfortable. Then we drove from my home to Portland, down a road I have taken at least three or four times a year for over ten years. An entire town was missing!!!! There have always been three towns from the Columbia river to I84. Umatilla, Irrigon and another town. Spaced almost exactly five miles apart. Now there is only Umatilla and Irrigon 7.5 miles away. I know this is bizarre, but it happened but I have no proof and I'm still here. Even the people close to me are slightly different, and others don't seem to be in this verse.
I would like t here from others with similar experiences. In case you wonder why I don't mention the name of the third town....it was a normal boring name which we always laughed about forgetting, because who could remember something that bland between Umatilla and Irrigon.

reply to post by Unstable Affliction

Fair play first of all for your hard work and input into this.

Many thanks, but I share the praise with everyone who has contributed to this short thread. It is often exhilarating to dip a toe into the sea of opinion that is ATS.

A thought; isn’t this site another example of an alternate Universe, albeit an example of a 2D one?

We all exist here temporarily as electronic, literary avatars of our material bodies, engaging other representations of like-minded people in an unending, analytical community.

However, how do you justify all this? And how did you come to this conclusion on life and the viel of the universe?

To begin a journey that hopefully leads us to an understanding of what may lie beyond what we currently perceive as reality, we should open our minds to all of the possibilities that may confront us.

That way we will not enter this questioning journey biased and narrow-minded; nor will we take with us any cumbersome, limiting paradigms that will undoubtedly weigh down our ability to discern new, exciting answers, or distort the perception of anything we encounter into something it is not.

The reason i ask these important questions is because i spoke to unbelievably wise man the other day up the pub, and he discussed similar, very simliar. We both came to the same conclusion with the illusion of reality and twin universes etc.

Ah, alcohol; the great leveler. (It’s leveled me a few times, I can tell you.)

Allowing alcohol to loosen the mind in good company has been the catalyst for immeasurable philosophical discussions, and your encounter with a wise man is only another example. That we could capture for posterity half of those unfettered conversations, what reading they would make.

And, more often than not, what candid common sense they would make…

Who’s not to say that amongst such innocent musings great truths about our existence are unveiled, only to be lost again when the glasses are refilled?

reply to post by FiatLux


I agree with your argument. But it has to be remembered that we are not all alike; some have to achieve results by any means. Does that make them brave adventurers, or willing escapees?

In our orchestrated racial and social groupings we may look similar, think along the same lines and follow the same religions, but deep within we are as different from the next person as can be. Every personal experience creates, and continues to form, a unique being.

We are all, in theory, self-contained Universes, similar but distinct.

And some work better than others.

reply to post by Beamish


Yes, I agree with your statement. If the person is doing it to open that door for the first time, fine. As long as the person doesn`t use drugs as the only means of opening that door every time. One can get hooked on them, right? If one can get that door opened like that a couple of times, then maybe using meditation to do it may be a better answer afterward.

This bump is not intended to try and justify my own musings about the Universes, but coincidence should not be ignored.

At the beginning of this thread I said:

There’s a thin veil dividing realities. An entirety of all there is or could be, is just millimetres away; infinite universes, containing an infinite number of stars and worlds expanding outwards and inwards in infinite volumes, all sharing the same space.

Within these, the same universal, material laws and physical constants we recognize as correct struggle to co-exist alongside chaotic realms seemingly devoid of logic or rule. Each is as different as the next, even if in the slightest change or configuration.

and now, completely independent of my ruminations, this thread appears:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Which I highly recommend everyone read. A quote from the relevant article says (my emphasis):

Turok and Steinhardt were inspired by a lecture given by Burt Ovrut who imagined two branes, universes like ours, separated by a tiny gap as tiny as 10-32 meters. There would be no communictaion between the two universes except for our parallel sister universe's gravitational pull, which could cross the tiny gap.

Strange the way the world works…