This is why most pilots don't talk about ufos

Originally posted by Aim64C
Even if you cite the infamous Project Blue Book - the Air Force admittedly categorized something around 1% as "unidentified." However, there was no sufficient evidence to signify a threat to national security - which was the entire goal of Project Blue Book.

Hi Aim64C, when it comes to Bluebook catergorizing their actual unknown figures or determining whether 'hot reports' were threats to strategic defense it doesn't look like we're being told the whole story - there's an interesting statement below which states that UFO reports which could affect national security "were not part of the Blue Book system" - if they weren't part of the Bluebook system then what system were they a part of?

"Moreover,reports of unidentified flying objects which could affect national security are made in accordance with JANAP 146 or Air Force manual 55-11,and are not part of the Blue Book system."

PDF

There's also this other interesting article on Blue Book Special Report 14 describing how an extra 1000 unexplained UFO reports went completely missing with an article speculating that they might have ended up in the hands of the '4602d Air Intelligence Service Squadron' operating out of Langley, Virginia.

It is also worthy of noting that Air Force Blue Book recorded 2,344 sightings in the 1947 through 1952 time period. Special Report Number 14 said that the Air Force recorded 3,201 reports. This is nearly one thousand more reports than listed by Blue Book. Where did the extra reports come from? Many suspect that these reports were collected by the 4602 AISS and that only reports which had more mundane explanations ever reached Blue Book.

Link

Article

Cheers.

Many suspect that these reports were collected by the 4602 AISS and that only reports which had more mundane explanations ever reached Blue Book

Many including Hynek himself.

all the hardcore UFO cases, with pilot-UFO close encounters so close they could read writing on them, were going upstairs"

- J Allen Hynek

You have the patience of a saint Karl. I can't put up with debunkers.

Originally posted by Schaden

Many suspect that these reports were collected by the 4602 AISS and that only reports which had more mundane explanations ever reached Blue Book

Many including Hynek himself.

all the hardcore UFO cases, with pilot-UFO close encounters so close they could read writing on them, were going upstairs"

- J Allen Hynek

Very interesting -- what's the citation on this quote so I can check an original source?

reply to post by karl 12

Hi Aim64C, when it comes to Bluebook catergorizing their actual unknown figures or determining whether 'hot reports' were threats to strategic defense it doesn't look like we're being told the whole story

You're simply reading into the story what you want to.

there's an interesting statement below which states that UFO reports which could affect national security "were not part of the Blue Book system" - if they weren't part of the Bluebook system then what system were they a part of?

The more relevant question is "What was Project Blue Book meant to do?"

To break it down to less conspiracy-provoking analogies - it's like a car company looking at the maintenance and quality of design on their lines. You are going to already have failure reports and rates based on the reports of authorized mechanics and insurance statistics. That would be similar to JANAP reporting. The company then looks through their surveys, mail, and other forms of consumer feedback to identify other areas that could use improvement. It's more qualitative than quantitative, but it doesn't necessitate you include reports you have already analyzed.

Or, in another context; a report of someone trying to detonate a bomb at your front gate of the base would be excluded from analyzing the reports from roving watches to determine if there were signs that hostile forces (known or unknown) were probing the defenses.

It's a focus problem. On one hand - the obvious threat has to be monitored. However, the 'towely-band' are not the only threats out there. You have to tune out the Sun if you want to see the stars and other galaxies, so to speak.

There's also this other interesting article on Blue Book Special Report 14 describing how an extra 1000 unexplained UFO reports went completely missing with an article speculating that they might have ended up in the hands of the '4602d Air Intelligence Service Squadron' operating out of Langley, Virginia.

Why?

On a more factual note, Project Blue Book was an 18-year long project with numerous changes of command and structure. The total number of reports analyzed by the Blue Book project comes to 12,618.

The 4602d Air Intelligence Service Squadron was, following the Robertson Panel, placed in charge of handling the more 'serious' UFO reports. The reasoning for this was clear in the discussion and conclusions of the Robertson Panel. Whether you consider it justified or not is rather irrelevant to what formed the basis of the logic used to formulate policy at the time.

You must also consider what the 50s and 60s were like. UFOs were a subject commonly embraced by the various anti-establishment personalities of the day, and generally used to rationalize feelings of paranoia and oppression - still are. Were you to ask someone why we needed to get rid of the government, and one of the major responses would have been "because they are not telling us the truth about aliens."

Also keep in mind what society is - falling victim to faddish beliefs in the supernatural; from witches to vampires and mediums spewing 'ectoplasm' in various rituals espousing communication with the dead. Aliens address our industrial and technological society quite well, having absolved most of the barriers we see as being nearly impossible to surmount.

People didn't want the truth. They demanded aliens. Still do. And, truth be told; no one really knows what is going on. The truth is, also, that many people don't have the nerve to face the unknown. Our society is conditioned to not just demand an answer, but to fear and be reprimanded for an honest "I don't know." Look no further than public education - guessing and "winging it" are recommended over flat-out honesty.

So, you want the truth out of the military: "We don't know. You know about as much as we do." You won't accept it, most likely. Some people out there will demand a 'logical' explanation - the "debunkers." They won't accept "we don't know," either.

Society can't handle it. They can't accept their government/military confirming the presence of something interesting, but not having all the answers.

In this context, Blue Book and even Special Report 14, were not ever intended to speculate on the source/cause of unexplained phenomena. Special Report 14, in my opinion, represents some of the best and most unbiased research into UFO reports to date - and while the stated conclusion was mostly political, the data contained within paints a very interesting picture.

You're wanting the "WOW" case that proves everything you have suspected. You're pouring over meticulous and almost pointless details concerning a bureaucratic process that is going to mystify and frustrate the facilitators of that bureaucracy - much more the people looking upon that bureaucracy. There's no need. The data is already right there.

And what does the data show? A consistent trend of cases that rank as "unknown" among high-quality reports (collaborating radar/image data, multiple witnesses, credible witnesses and trained witnesses, etc) - as many as 38% of such reports. For a report to be classified as "unknown" - four analysts had to independently classify the report as 'unknown' (as opposed to only two needing to come to the same identification to rank it as "identified").

You don't need to try and debunk Project Blue Book. The command structure was engineered to provide a political and public front following the Robertson Panel - this is rather obvious, and a few contracted civilian experts working with the project openly criticized the change. Special Report 14, spearheaded by Ruppelt and isolated from such poor decisions, clearly displays a trend in the data suggesting there is a consistent observational phenomena associated with credible UFO reports (speculating or making a statement that inherently excludes a range of explanations is not healthy).

That's all that needs to be said. No need to discuss cover-ups, Site 4, etc.

The fact is that the military doesn't know, either. There are those who want to know, those who want to believe, those who don't want to know, and those who don't want to believe. The military has them, too - at all ranks of service. Just like on ATS, those threads that turn up the 'real' interesting cases often get buried under the loads of garbage that believers eat like fine cuisine and 'debunkers' dismiss with the wave of a hand. And the truth gets lost in talks of Bush and Obama being reptilians.

Originally posted by xweaponx
I'm a professional airline pilot, and let me tell you there is NOTHING that states we have to keep quiet about UFO's there's been numerous times that my co-captain / co-pilot have reported objects that go from 0MPH to extreme speeds and stop. We've radioed in ATC and they simply check radar usually saying you guys are the only ones up there, explain the object and different questions. But they usually just document it and I don't know where the document goes after that. But there's not going to see a shrink or anything. Heck I actually got more hours after reporting a UFO. I've told my friends and family and they think it's pretty interesting to hear about these objects that resemble NO aerodynamic structure and stuff beyond our physics.

I have never seen a UFO photo taken by a pilot. Don't you carry any sort of camera with you? It would be great to one day see a picture like that.

reply to post by mbkennel


My niece's husband was told if he valued his career he would not report this.

He was told to drop the issue period.

reply to post by Aim64C


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Hi OP and all,

Aim64C, Can appreciate what your spelling out. The problem I have is who's name your mentioning. Karl, in my opinion, researches ebe/ufo stuff to the fullest and doesn't give simply thought-up replies/thoughts to any threads that I've seen to date (years), including this.

Flight 564's incident in appx /95 sent an American commercial pilot into a UFO Researcher. Now we all know FAA reports to ?? who reports to ?? so all ufo # used to get washed. And, pilots and crew reporting their stuff OFFICIALLY could get washed too.

Since /89 when Oschelor(SP?), wrote out/spoke-out re his exposure to a fed-plan to ease peoples (Americans) into the reality of EBEs/ufos under the the fed-project "Cosmic Journey".
Bob got washed out for playing a tape of a telephone conversation Bob had with Admiral INman, then retired after quiting Clinton's Cab as, I believe Sec of Def. To hed up SAIC (quiet-quiet).

Anyway, Pilots are were and will be juggling their future proficiency tests following an open report of a UFO encounter while in the sky w/passengers.

Bobby Ray INman: LINK: en.wikipedia.org...

Decoy