Phoenix Lights UFO

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heres the best story on phoenix lights UFO case





www.ufocasebook.com...

UFO researchers and writers today are tantalized by the increasing reports of alien abduction, possible photographs of alien beings, physical trace cases, and implant removals. In a way we have become spoiled-expecting the sensational. This desire for ultimate proof has caused us to overlook the seemingly mundane, everyday reports of night lights, which were at one time sensational in their own right. With the ever growing technology of our era, pictures and video are often times called into question because of the ease of manipulation and creation afforded computer graphics experts. Called into question, that is, by those who are waiting in the wings to debunk any and all visible proof of UFOs as suspect of being hoaxed. This is especially true in cases with one or two photos taken by one witness. This has always been a pitfall to researchers who scratch and claw for authentication of a particular photograph or video. There are, however, those cases which have multiple photographs of the same object, taken by many witnesses. This type of case carries the heaviest weight for those who remain on neutral ground on the subject of UFOs. One of the best of these is the Phoenix, Arizona lights case of 1997. Supported by many photographs and videos, this fantastic event is still discussed and analyzed today. The Lights Appear Evidence points to March 13, 1997 as the onset of this extremely compelling account of various and sundry phenomenal lights which moved over the state of Arizona. These lights, though referred to as the "Phoenix Lights," were actually witnessed in at least five other cities. Phoenix has the distinction as the first Arizona city to report the unknown light sources, which were initially spotted over Superstition Mountains, east of the city, at about 7:30 PM. The first reports indicated an object of six points of light, immediately followed by a report of eight connected lights, with a separate ninth, which moved in unison with the eight. The formation was seen again over the Gila River just before 10:00 PM. In a matter of minutes, the enormous, lighted structure had made its way over the southern part of the city of Phoenix. At this time, literally thousands of people witnessed the object or objects. It was at this time, that the first photographs and videos were taken. The final sightings of the night were in Rainbow Valley. Witnesses there reported a very distinct "V" formation. This sighting occurred at about 2:00 AM on March 14. The Mothership It is important to note that there are various descriptions of the lights from the Nevada border throughout Arizona. Some witnesses described a very clear "V" shape, while others said that the lights were circular or cresent-shaped. It is only common in night light cases for these differences to come to light. Many factors can attribute to these varying descriptions. One specific object can be seen from different angles, with the angle of the object only reflecting part of its light system, depending on atmospheric or weather conditions, or the very way a witness looks at the object can make this difference. It is very possible that two witnesses can see the same object at the same time, and give two completely different accounts. This fact has been proven in scientific studies of eye witnesses accounts in crime cases. Another possibility in the case in point is that there may have been several different objects of different shapes and sizes. In my own research into this case over the years, I have come to the personal conclusion that the main object over Arizona was of a circular shape, and this is corroborated by the various still and video film taken. There were other shapes observed, but it appears that the "mother-ship" was circular.

Between 9:00 and 9:30 PM on the 13th, one extraordinary description was made by a family in Mesa. They said that an enormous craft with a distinctive structure flew over their area. They described a triangle-shaped object with lights at the three corners, and another larger light in its center. Amazingly, they could clearly see panels on the craft which were in a grid pattern. There were also, about this same time, several reports of two round objects which seemed to detach from the larger "V" shaped object, only to later rejoin the mother-ship. One witness described the "V" shaped mother-ship dividing itself into two separate craft as it moved toward the city of Tucson. Another dramatic description of the mother-ship was made by a group of real estate agents who had subdivided property over the northern part of Phoenix. They would also get a close-up view of the gigantic disc. They estimated the craft to be a staggering two miles wide as it flew at a low altitude near Phoenix. They could see dozens of bright lights along the leading edges, and also a row of windows with "silhouettes of people." It also seems highly probably that for some reason, the giant craft turned off its lights, as observers could see only the windows with what appeared to be people shadowed in the glow of the inside. Another family got a brightly lit view of the unknown object, and described its color as "flat blue-black, like the color of a shotgun barrel."

so what do you think about this case?

thanks

[edit on 20-11-2009 by deejayiwan]

i think the reason theres not much interest in this is becuase most folks have seen the following video.



flares.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
i think the reason theres not much interest in this is becuase most folks have seen the following video.

"vid link"
flares.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by yeti101]

The debunked video debunked.

No way those were flares. No smoke trail. Distinct edges of light orbs. Ppl saw a transparant craft, as if looking through water. Blocking the stars.
It was a craft m8. A huge craft like the Arizona gouvenor says, from not around here.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by maxxsee]

Originally posted by yeti101
i think the reason theres not much interest in this is becuase most folks have seen the following video.

flares.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by yeti101]

Just another government / airforce / army or what have you , sponsored debunking / propaganda video.

See my sig below

Originally posted by yeti101
i think the reason theres not much interest in this is becuase most folks have seen the following video.

...

flares.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by yeti101]

Actually, this was a classic bait and switch, and sadly, many (yourself included), fell for it.

Those lights over Phoenix proper were indeed, flares. But why were they released at all? The sighting of a huge triangle shaped craft came hours before these flares, and AFTER as well. Why did they conveniently release flares, no less in a V configuration, on THAT night? In fact, they had never previously, nor ever since, released flares in that spot where the entire city could witness them. ONLY on the night where a V pattern of lights was spotted north and south of Phoenix.

To perhaps cause confusion and misdirection? Seems to have worked, didn't it.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by fleabit]

reply to post by fleabit


well done fleabit your the first one to say the explanation that most ufologists now use including stanton friedman. None the less the phoenix lights that we have footage of and keep seeing replayed over & over on larry king and other ufo shows are flares.

but at least you admit that. well done.

There is one other video, but it's terribly fuzzy. But unlike some, I don't simply discount eyewitness testimony out of hand because they also don't have pictures and video. If that were the norm, 95% of criminals would get off due to eyewitness testimony being worthless. It isn't, and it shouldn't be summarily dismissed.

They also went to a lot of trouble making that exact formation with the flares. Either they had flares that fell at different speeds (based on weight, chute size, whatever), or they released them from two different planes, flying in opposite directions. Why would they do this?

I believe there is also another "explanation" being put forth this year. SO many years after the event. An "announced" flying lab experiment of some type. Yea.. ok.. whatever.

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by fleabit

 

well done fleabit your the first one to say the explanation that most ufologists now use including stanton friedman. None the less the phoenix lights that we have footage of and keep seeing replayed over & over on larry king and other ufo shows are flares.

but at least you admit that. well done.

Even the video that supposedly debunks the debunking admits those may really be flares, launched as a "smokescreen" to confuse the facts. But that video is also ambiguous as it starts out with witnesses stating the flares can't really be flares with statements that demonstrate their ignorance about the facts of the case, optics, etc. So the 10pm event was undoubtedly flares, and yes that's the video we always see.

There was an earlier sighting at maybe 8:30pm, I forgot the exact time, and there was a really crappy video of that where you can't really see anything, but it was supposed to show the V-shaped craft. But you almost never see that one because it's so crappy and it shows more optical "noise" than anything else due to the low lighting conditions.

What seems amazing about this case is that people got video of the flares, but nobody got any decent video of the V-shaped craft, even with all those Sony "nightshot" camcorders out there that can record at night? I'm not saying they didn't see it, but I have to wonder why they got video of the flares but not video of the V-shaped craft.

Originally posted by fleabit
There is one other video, but it's terribly fuzzy. But unlike some, I don't simply discount eyewitness testimony out of hand because they also don't have pictures and video. If that were the norm, 95% of criminals would get off due to eyewitness testimony being worthless. It isn't, and it shouldn't be summarily dismissed.

I agree witness testimony shouldn't be summarily dismissed and I don't dismiss it, however it's very unreliable (reposted from the Kecksburg thread):

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I find it alarming how many people imprisoned by witness testimony are freed years later when DNA evidence proves their innocence, once again showing the unreliability of witness testimony.

www.courant.com...

The biggest cause of wrongful convictions in this summary is eyewitness testimony:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/61e28612ef33.gif[/atsimg]
www.innocenceproject.org...
www.innocenceproject.org...

While eyewitness testimony can be persuasive evidence before a judge or jury, 30 years of strong social science research has proven that eyewitness identification is often unreliable. Research shows that the human mind is not like a tape recorder; we neither record events exactly as we see them, nor recall them like a tape that has been rewound.

In case after case, DNA has proven what scientists already know — that eyewitness identification is frequently inaccurate. In the wrongful convictions caused by eyewitness misidentification, the circumstances varied, but judges and juries all relied on testimony that could have been more accurate if reforms proven by science had been implemented.

Actually the wrongful convictions in court are starting to open our eyes to just how unreliable eyewitness testimony really is.

You also imo, cannot rule out a sighting just because someone FAILED to film it. Not everyone has a video camera ready to roll. Also, Phoenix has a MUCH greater population than the other towns it passed over. Even for its population, there were but a few videos of the large array of flares over the mountains.

The previous sightings were in a nice line south, both direction-wise and time-wise. 6:55, a man saw a v-shaped craft. at 8:15, a retired police officer saw the cluster of lights, and went and got binoculars to watch them until they were out of sight. At 8:17, more callers reported the craft.

At the air force base, the initial calls were met with a response of "we have gotten lots of calls, we do not know what it is." Later calls were "we have not seen anything, and no one else has reported this."

After Phoenix, to the south, a man called from a PHONE BOOTH to make a report about the odd cluster of lights moving to his north.

There is no doubt in my mind, that something out of the ordinary was flying around Arizona that evening. And the flimsy excuse that they were conducting exercises right THERE.. where they never had before, nor again since, dropping flares in a V formation.. c'mon now.

Also, I think that while studies of eyewitness behavior is not a bad thing to consider, objects in the sky are another matter. People are not as dumb as others might think. Tell me this. If you were standing on your porch, and saw this cluster of lights... if it were planes, would you know? I know I would.

Every time I've seen an odd object in the sky that is out of the ordinary, after a minute or so of observation, I know what it is. Blimp, advertising balloon seen from afar, helicopter, planes, and so on. I watch the skies often. I filmed a small round white object as it flew very high in the sky above my car, as I sat through a drive-through. I had no delusions that it was anything other than a weather balloon of some sort.

When an object like this is seen by dozens of witnesses, it stretches credulity that EVERYONE mistook a common object (or a cluster of common objects) for something extra-ordinary. The flares being dropped is just icing on the cake imo. One family saw this thing fly almost directly overhead, and could make out the entire triangular shape, and the massive size.

As a sole witness, there are always questions. When it's a whole bunch of witnesses over a long period of time, all reporting the same thing, you can't just say they all mistook some planes flying around as a UFO. That borders on the ludicrous. I suppose there is a 1 in a billion odds that they all saw something different, and all mistakenly reported it, and all called in on that... but that's just reaching for the sake of not wanting to believe.

It's cases like this and similar ones, like in Indiana, that are the most important imo. And the military I think, dropped flares for the sole purpose of confusing the matter. In fact, I am of the mind they were preparing in case it DID fly over the city proper. A preliminary measure to muddy the waters. I don't think they did that solely because it was being reported. I think they saw the direction it was going via the calls (and perhaps radar, who knows), and were taking steps to create an alibi.

Originally posted by yeti101
i think the reason theres not much interest in this is becuase most folks have seen the following video.

flares.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by yeti101]

Yeah, as another poster stated everyone fell for the bait and switch. This was not the intriguing part of the Phoenix lights incident at all. This was the aftermath of the mass sighting that was described in manners that simply weren't represented by the lights appearing in that video.

I live out in Arizona city and we see those lights all the time.
At least twice a week. Out here it is pretty rural, a lot of farms.
They move in odd directions all over the place, in a a formation. It is really strange.

Funny you bring up the Phoenix lights.

A youtube poster near Denver, Colorado offered a TON of video from 11-18-2009 saying this event in Colorado rivaled that of the Phoenix Lights.

I don't know how many witnesses there were for these events ... and that's what gave Phoenix a ton of credability, but sheck out the extensive video. All frmo a 2 hour period.

Thoughts?













Sorry to clutter your thread.

But ... that's a LOT of video compared to the 5 lights in Phoenix!

All from 11-18-2009 apparently. Very recent.

To me, this case is screaming with disinformation. First, because the USAF edited the wikipedia article. Second..a first hand account of someone I know.

I know someone who actually witnessed the same exact problems detailed in the case. She was walking in the evening and suddenly the entire sky was covered black by something, but at that time she didn't know how to explain it so she just let it pass by...that is until 10 years later when she told me the story and I matched it with the news report in 1997.

She had no "leading" or "suggestive" media to make her think UFO, or anything like that. All she knew was the experience...which just happens to be in the same place, the same time, and the same nature as the thousands of other witnesses...