The REAL Swine Flu Conspiracy

Well the more opinions I have on what to do, the better decision in the end I'll have, I'll be the last person to do something just because someone said to do it. I'll make my own educated decisions. I'm confident about staying healthy in a pandemic with my knowledge and resources, but I'm more concerned about if I made the right choice in recommending what's best for my girlfriend since we don't live near each-other and how she will do, luckily soon I'll be sending her a bunch of stuff just in case, but it's up to her to be smart about how to apply them, as all I can do is make recommendations.

Here is a thread I put together on medical alternatives, if anyone wants a reference.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

OK I see now.

That is not a patent FOR a vaccine.

It's a patent for a manufacturing method to make viral vaccines.

It talks about the method being able to be used to make vaccines for horses, pigs, dogs, birds and people.

Vaccine companies make vaccines for all those species.

The Baxter swine flu vaccine is called "Celvapan". It's been approved for use in the EU but not in the USA.

Here is the product sheet for the vaccine. It only contains the California strain of swine flu, exactly the same as the other vaccines.

Do you understand the difference between what's in the patent and what's in an actual vaccine? Not trying to be rude, just want to make sure you follow me.

So if these vaccines, only contain one strain of the swine flu going around right now, then what is the grounds to argue that not taking the vaccine is a propaganda setup? So if the sheep take these vaccines then how are they any safer than us conspiracy theorists that haven't? When a more deadly strain comes around, what difference will it make, vaccine or not if you catch this strain.

Wont the vaccines, not only NOT protect you from a new strain but also make you more likely to get a cytokine storm?

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Scarcer]

Originally posted by ecoparity
It talks about the method being able to be used to make vaccines for horses, pigs, dogs, birds and people.

That's NOT correct. It actually uses the virus strain, type, and subtype OF THOSE ANIMALS in the vaccine method. It's actually VERY clear if you take a moment to read the patent app and know the nomenclature behind what the Hs and Ns are. It's not for those animals, it's for humans.

It's for the exact method used to make the vaccines that Novartis, and the others are using to make the H1N1 vaccines. Baxter is the license holder for the method, the other companies pay Baxter to use the patented method.

One of the reasons the "Swine Flu" was so big in the news early on is that it has recombinant DNA from swine, bird, and humans! Never before seen to have three species in one flu. Typical flu strains that affect humans can be from other animals.


[edit on 12-11-2009 by notreallyalive]

Originally posted by ecoparity
The Baxter swine flu vaccine is called "Celvapan". It's been approved for use in the EU but not in the USA.

Here is the product sheet for the vaccine. It only contains the California strain of swine flu, exactly the same as the other vaccines.

Do you understand the difference between what's in the patent and what's in an actual vaccine? Not trying to be rude, just want to make sure you follow me.

Thank you =)

and yes, for example the patent allows for 33 different strains, but only between 2 and 8 will be used in a given vaccine. The number and choice of strain will change each year or each flu.


[edit on 12-11-2009 by notreallyalive]

reply to post by notreallyalive


OK which page and section of the patent goes into this mixture of all these different species. The document describes a manufacturing method and lists "prior art" - this means previous patents held by someone else and also goes descriptions of the various types of operations the method can accomplish.

I need to see exactly what part of it you're talking about, please.

People have said the same thing about 9/11, that if it really was a conspiracy perpetrated by the govt, too many people would be involved and there would really be no real secrecy, its too big of a deal.
The same thing is said about UFO's and aliens, the JFK/RFK conspiracy, the food conspiracy, the drug conpsiracy, the war or terror, and other govt dealings/coverups.
Well you forget that we are dealing with some of the most educated people on the planet. Nothing just happens by accident, there are no coinicidences, "mistake" and "accident" is not in their vocabulary.
If you don't see by now that this swine flu deal was engineered, practiced and reingineered, probably more than a few years ago then you might want to do a little more research.

They use our own ignorance against us.

reply to post by ecoparity


Page 4, Section 0056; Here's a screenshot:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/06d50ee605e4.jpg[/atsimg]

Baxter Patent Application for multiple virus vaccine method

In a given year, maybe the CDC expects there will be an outbreak of say, Avian H3N2. They provide this info early to allow for companies to make the vaccines. They aren't always right, that's why sometimes vaccines don't work or actually cause you to get sick. I know a Virologist doctor at Stanford University - she says the CDC is right maybe 50% of the time on which strains they predict.

Swine are most likely to pass on viruses to humans of the animals listed.

(I'm off to bed - I appreciate your open-mindedness. I learned some new stuff too. Thanks for an interesting thread.)


[edit on 12-11-2009 by notreallyalive]

Originally posted by thereaintnospoon
People have said the same thing about 9/11, that if it really was a conspiracy perpetrated by the govt, too many people would be involved and there would really be no real secrecy, its too big of a deal.
The same thing is said about UFO's and aliens, the JFK/RFK conspiracy, the food conspiracy, the drug conpsiracy, the war or terror, and other govt dealings/coverups.
Well you forget that we are dealing with some of the most educated people on the planet. Nothing just happens by accident, there are no coinicidences, "mistake" and "accident" is not in their vocabulary.
If you don't see by now that this swine flu deal was engineered, practiced and reingineered, probably more than a few years ago then you might want to do a little more research.

They use our own ignorance against us.

Maybe I'm wrong,

But if I've been fallowing this thread correctly, the question is if there is just a conspiracy, or if there is a double conspiracy,

The conspiracy to not take the vaccines,

Or the double conspiracy where its a conspiracy so the "loonies" like you and me who don't take the vaccine are killed on purpose by a strain that the vaccines are protecting the sheep from.

I'm fallowing this topic cause I'm trying to figure out if the 2nd conspiracy exists or not.

Originally posted by notreallyalive
reply to post by ecoparity

 

Page 4, Section 0056; Here's a screenshot:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/06d50ee605e4.jpg[/atsimg]

Baxter Patent Application for multiple virus vaccine method

I gotta ask, does using a substance to "enhance immune response" really have any beneficial affect? Either way our bodies would detect an intruder, I'm still learning, but isn't this likely to enhance a Cytokine Storm responce? Just asking, cause if they were trying to protect the sheep with these vaccines, then they would want them safe as possible. So this would lead me back to the original conspiracy being true.

Again I realize this isn't specifically for the swine jab

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Scarcer]

Originally posted by thereaintnospoon
People have said the same thing about 9/11, that if it really was a conspiracy perpetrated by the govt, too many people would be involved and there would really be no real secrecy, its too big of a deal.
The same thing is said about UFO's and aliens, the JFK/RFK conspiracy, the food conspiracy, the drug conpsiracy, the war or terror, and other govt dealings/coverups.
Well you forget that we are dealing with some of the most educated people on the planet. Nothing just happens by accident, there are no coinicidences, "mistake" and "accident" is not in their vocabulary.
If you don't see by now that this swine flu deal was engineered, practiced and reingineered, probably more than a few years ago then you might want to do a little more research.

They use our own ignorance against us.

I have to agree that a couple of those are not possible according to the popular theory. The real conspiracy of 9/11 is one example like this where people took it too far, probably as part of a disinfo effort and lost the real issues in a sea of distractions.

JFK would not have taken very many people and I could say the same for UFOs. That's a subject where the only real insiders would be military and govt special ops who would keep the secret for one reason - we have some ET technology and we don't want anyone else to have it.

In this case we're talking about thousands and thousands of civilians who are able to break the evidence down completely, examine the genetics and see if there's anything in it that shouldn't be. In that regard it has nothing in common with any of those other conspiracies.

The virus and the vaccine are both examined by tens of thousands, probably over one hundred thousand researchers. How is the NWO able to get all of those people to play along? There is nothing they can put in those substances that cannot be detected easily by these people, they cannot all be in on it, so how is it accomplished?

Originally posted by Scarcer

I gotta ask, does using a substance to "enhance immune response" really have any beneficial affect? Either way our bodies would detect an intruder, I'm still learning, but isn't this likely to enhance a Cytokine Storm responce? Just asking, cause if they were trying to protect the sheep with these vaccines, then they would want them safe as possible. So this would lead me back to the original conspiracy being true.

That substance is called an adjuvant and they are used frequently. The main benefit is that A LOT less of the expensive viral portion of the virus need be used. The big problem is that a few studies have shown Squalene (an adjuvant) to cause immune issues and pass on genetic problems such as making a typical disease such as arthritis turn into a chronic disease in offspring, which is worse and more likely to be passed on, from what I understand.

I'm not familiar with the term cytokine storm but I assume it has something to do with the cell structure? Not sure.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by notreallyalive]

So if these vaccines, only contain one strain of the swine flu going around right now, then what is the grounds to argue that not taking the vaccine is a propaganda setup? So if the sheep take these vaccines then how are they any safer than us conspiracy theorists that haven't? When a more deadly strain comes around, what difference will it make, vaccine or not if you catch this strain. Wont the vaccines, not only NOT protect you from a new strain but also make you more likely to get a cytokine storm?

Can someone please educate me a little on this?

A Cytokine Storm is an autoimmune response where the immune system goes haywire and starts attacking everything including healthy tissue. For example Bird flu or 1918 flu
www.cytokinestorm.com...

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Scarcer]

reply to post by notreallyalive


The section you posted is part of the list of prior art. They are explaining to the patent office, for legal reasons - all the various ways in which vaccines are made and why their method is unique enough to be granted a patent.

It is not a patent FOR a vaccine nor does it have any bearing on the swine flu vaccine they created.

The section you posted is part of a description of how process are followed, the problems that exist and the ways in which they are overcome, especially in vaccines of the types listed in your screenshot.

It is not a description of how swine flu vaccine is made, what goes in it and so on.

This is what I keep running into with this conspiracy. People make certain claims and when you dig deeper you find they are taking things out of context or misunderstanding what they looking at.

That patent had absolutely nothing to do with swine flu vaccine. I would take that patent and email it to a virologist or two and ask them to explain the sections you are worried about. I think it would make you feel a bit better about it.

To try and explain it in simple terms - what you've done is like me posting a patent for a truck and then claiming it is the patent for the boxes I haul around in the truck.

Like posting a patent for an oven and then claiming it is the patent for the pie I bake in the oven.

A manufacturing process is not the same thing as the product manufactured and the paragraph you're worried about is not saying that all those things are mixed into vaccines. It talks about how the new method deals better with difficult virus strains like the ones listed.

reply to post by Scarcer

So if these vaccines, only contain one strain of the swine flu going around right now...

They don't contain just one, they contain between 2 and 8 but it's proprietary info and I haven't seen it yet. Eco mentioned one vaccine has 6 strains so he may know.

...then what is the grounds to argue that not taking the vaccine is a propaganda setup?

I don't buy it. This could be exactly the opposite of what's going on. The problem is there's no proof of the vaccine's benefit or harm either way. If your co-worker gets the H1N1 nasal mist vaccine, then spreads one of the strains to you, then you just got sick. No way to prove where it came from.

If I was gonna argue conspiracy (which I'm not) I'd say... there's this insignificant flu that's not killing many people, but the WHO and CDC made it a pandemic. This caused billions of doses of the vaccine to be administered causing most of the planet to get sick making pharmaceuticals companies TONS of money! or further out killing off 90% of those people, or ruining their kids DNA.



[edit on 12-11-2009 by notreallyalive]

reply to post by Scarcer


That question would be better addressed to a virologist. The swine flu virus "might" mutate but the method they use to create an immune response should still work even after mutations.

It would take a very large mutation or several key small ones to make the vaccine no longer work.

Worst case, they would have to create another vaccine but this is something that does not happen very often.

I can think of two times in the past 20 years when seasonal flu vaccines were "wrong" and in both cases the flu they thought would end up going around was not the one that ended up in the USA.

I'm not aware of a single instance in real life when a flu vaccine was negated because the virus mutated. This is something the popular conspiracy crowd has made into a big deal when in reality, it hasn't happened.

How many vaccines for long standing diseases like polio, small pox, etc no longer work because the disease has changed? (OK bad examples but there are others we vaccinate for that are still around).

This is just another falsehood being used to turn people away from vaccines. I think people all have a choice to take them or not but I'm not going to make up stuff to influence them. The anti vaccine folks seem just fine with making stuff up, IMO.

Baxter's stock only seems to indicate money could be made when the vaccines were first introduced
investing.businessweek.com...

Although many agencies such as the BBC seem to be stockpiling the 'Tamiflu' vaccine
www.google.co.uk...

Tamiflu stock seems to be making alot of money
www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net...

www.google.co.uk...

What do you think?

reply to post by notreallyalive


Well I took the single strain from text of Eco at the top of page 2.

And Eco, if you're arguing that the vaccine poses no danger, then what is your opinion on what risks might those without the vaccine might encounter in the future, simply whats going on in your head.

Originally posted by ecoparity


The virus and the vaccine are both examined by tens of thousands, probably over one hundred thousand researchers. How is the NWO able to get all of those people to play along? There is nothing they can put in those substances that cannot be detected easily by these people, they cannot all be in on it, so how is it accomplished?

We will just have to wait and see. Obviously if I knew their strategy I would be spreading the truth around...not that anyone would take it seriously.
Hopefully this swine flu deal is just an opportunity to scare as many people as possible to take the vaccines so the big pharma companies can really bank this christmas season. After all, many have some catching up to do with the recession and all. Hopefully you're right, there wont be any harmful substances in the vaccine and perhaps it will even help against the the swine flu and treats/prevents serious illness or death.