survival camo

what is the best camo for the fallowing enviornment:

desert
wilderness
urban
snow

all others


please give your imput. most people say digital camo is the best others say the old bdu and dcu. what about the new multi cam. what is really better for servival.

Hey outlaw, I'm working on a thread about that very subject, i should have it ready soon (2-3days) explaining how and why camo works or doesn't. important subject but difficult to articulate in words.

I don't like the ACU, I feel that it's not very effective outside of dusty or urban environments. I feel that the US Army should have selected the USMC MARPAT camouflage or developed their own similar version.

Asktheanimals, I will be eagerly awaiting your post. I am interested in what you have to say considering my lifelong interest in military uniforms.

chris i think the same thing. we use the acy but it dosent help for urban or anything. i think the old style DCU was better for urban or dersert ops but the new multi cam is supose to be more comfortable and well camo in the desert inviornment.


Asktheanimals
hope to see your post soon on what works and what dosent almost

If you are relying on clothing for camouflage you are already off base. Any camo chosen should be made up from materials that are indigenous to the environment. Camo is much more than clothing, it is being one with your environment. Smell ,shine, texture, movement, all will give you away. Color is really less important than most people think. I hunt in khakis and a flannel shirt, with great success. It really has more to do with how well you fit into where you are.

In any survival type situation camouflage should really be of little concern. We have been conditioned to believe that we must have it in order o blend in. It is just another lie from marketers trying to separate you from your money.

The Apache scout always wore a red headband indicating his position. It was a badge of honor. They are still considered to be some of the best guerrilla fighters in the world, camouflage was part of their training. I can hide in the desert with a fluorescent blanket. It is not what you have, it is how you us it.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

edited for my stupidity

[edit on 28-8-2009 by reluctantpawn]

The Indian Scouts actually wore the same uniform as the rest of the army but with less enforcement of the uniform regulations. I would love to see the US Army reform the Indian Scouts; given the similarity in the rugged and desert like terrain between Afghanistan and the American Southwest I am sure they have a few tricks to use against the Taliban and Al Qaeda forces.

@ texasoutlaw, are you by any chance active duty US Army, Texas ARNG, or Texas State Defense Force? Thanks for your service!

Just to clarify the Apache scouts were not part of the U.S. Calvary. They were a group within the tribe. Similar to the Dogmen of the Sioux. They are still considered to be one of the top rated fighters ever to walk the earth. Their training started at birth and lasted throughout their lifetime. It could be said that they were the ultimate survivalists.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by reluctantpawn


Hunting is one thing, most animals are colorblind - avoiding people is a whole other kettle of fish. anyways, I did post a thread on how camo works in the survival thread. i don't cover urban, desert or snow just the basic priciples involved.

[edit on 28-8-2009 by Asktheanimals]

People are generally less observant, more likely to dismiss anomalies, Less in tune with their environment, and not familiar with the cycle of nature. They are also more likely to be distracted, drop into patterns and easier to read. Hunting humans is much easier than hunting animals, in my opinion. And unfortunately I do have experience.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

form follows function .
if your in a uniform'd military , you ware the uniform of your mission.

if you are an occupation force , british red coats and a brown bess seemed to work .

if you want to be unremarkable , its not the color , pattern or motion that will turn you in to a target .

in the minds eye , you must be unremarkable .
you need to be dismissed in the feild in the mind first .

appear old , harmless , helppful , alarmless , common and with out effect or effective .

if your in forest , feild , or bush ... mud , tan , and green ....

avoid : shine , white , black , magenta , purple , lip stick red , and metal on metal sound .
more than color , motion and sound , a rilfe barrel ( straight lines ), clean surfaces .

may I suggest make a axe head out of two sheets of " door skin plywood " and put it on the end of your barrel ...

so that at great distance , the rilfe over your sholder looks like an axe .

a pitch fork head placed over the end of your barrel when you walk in open feilds .

mop head placed over your barrel when you walk in the street .

--------------------

the point is not when the bad guy is close .
the point is the bad guy that needs to figure out who you are at 800 to 1000 feet .

Ahh, now we are going somewhere. Excellent post and a star to you. It is not what you wear it is what you are.

may I suggest .

make the evidance tell a story .

combat is misdirection , deception , illusion , missunderstanding .
what fool attacks or fights an enemy that they can not beat.

you want to appear to be anything that is to unimportant to attack.
and swiftly remove , as unfairly and as close to cold blooded murder as can be managed : any one to dangerious to let go , is to dangerious to let live .

if you make my life hard , I will make your life short .

90% of tactics has something to do with " knowing who your enemy is "

mutany is is justification for the person in cammand to commit murder .
not a good idea to question the orders of a lawful command officer .

my point being , you do not want to be a part of a "side "

if drafted into a militia ( at the point of a gun or recruited )
never , under any circumstance question the orders of your commanding officer ( be that a police officer or national guard ) , but abandon any one that questions those order .

you face being shot on the spot .

back and agree the command officer , and the moment you are out of sight , leave and do not return .
desertion is when you fail to rejoin your lawful unit .

in revolution or civil disorder , you do not know who is lawful , so your on your own .
it is honor and the constitution that you owe your duty to , not any one person or command structure to .

but never ever argue or question the officer in command .
this is as much who you appear to be as any dress , or uniform you ware .

be where you stand , be unremarkable , unimportant , common , harmless , uneffected and ineffective .

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
If you are relying on clothing for camouflage you are already off base. Any camo chosen should be made up from materials that are indigenous to the environment. Camo is much more than clothing, it is being one with your environment. Smell ,shine, texture, movement, all will give you away. Color is really less important than most people think. I hunt in khakis and a flannel shirt, with great success. It really has more to do with how well you fit into where you are.

In any survival type situation camouflage should really be of little concern. We have been conditioned to believe that we must have it in order o blend in. It is just another lie from marketers trying to separate you from your money.

The Apache scout always wore a red headband indicating his position. It was a badge of honor. They are still considered to be some of the best guerrilla fighters in the world, camouflage was part of their training. I can hide in the desert with a fluorescent blanket. It is not what you have, it is how you us it.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

edited for my stupidity

[edit on 28-8-2009 by reluctantpawn]

[edit on 28-8-2009 by 8654drp]

[edit on 28-8-2009 by 8654drp]

I do not simply agree , with little to add , I have to say that this is the fundimental of the concept .

" fortifications are the grave yards of fools "

meaning , advertisze where you are , and the bad guys will come.

you do not see with the eye , you see with the mind : contrast , change and the unique .

to go un-noticed , you do the oppisite

reply to post by texasoutlaw


Great replies by RP and readerone, but as far as the original intent of your question, MultiCam is the shiz and I hope you active duty guys get it, there is talk already of dumping the present ACU pattern. USMC MARPAT works well in my AO also. We have dense mixed pines and hardwood with swampy areas and river bottoms. In a rocky/arid type terrain, MARPAT sticks out like a sore thumb. If you are thinking of buying gear, don't. Wait to see if you will be issued some MultiCam in the near future. If you are going for hunting gear, I would get clothes that are comfy and durable and rely on natural hides and blinds for camo.

desert
northern forest
southern forest
swamp land
urban cement
urban residential
farmland
winter
winter
spring
fall
night (a dark blue perhaps or a dark orange if street lights still work?)
day

trying to list all of the different types you could have.