Our Existence Now is Proof of an Afterlife

reply to post by esteay812


They don't have to be formerly humans... The point is that weather or not there is such thing as the afterlife or reincarnation, we will never truely be the same thing again; once we die as a human being, we have died as a human being- and the physical human body is a huge part of what we are; it's the reason we've learned and experienced and understood ourselves and this world in the way we have.


[edit on 24-7-2009 by Crying-Lightning]

[edit on 24-7-2009 by Crying-Lightning]

Originally posted by Republican08
reply to post by esteay812

 

I'll give you that, there a quite a few things we don't understand about our bodies.

Although, taking that and running with the wind assuming that this leads a great deal into that we have souls and such is an atrocity to science and nature.

Lack of knowledge of something shouldn't be filled in with mysticism, supernatural, pseudoscience, and superstitions!

When I do die, i've proclaimed what will happen.

I doubt my body emitting an unseeable 'light' will matter anything at all.

Believing in a after life, is one of the most lucrative, and wishful thinking that one can ever exhibit.

We die, that is it, lights out, the lights go dim, and never go back up, the lights don't even really go dim, they go out, and the screen goes fuzzy in the screaming sound we all have learned to hate.

Noone wants to die, ergo, we all assume ways in which we can live forever.

We fanaticize the ways in which we will have an after life, even after an estimated the 100 billion people who have lived and died, we wish that they would live forever.

Me personally, I wish that my died wouldn't of died, and would live forever in an afterlife. Although I know it is wishfull thinking and false thinking, he is dead, and will be no more ever, and his thoughts that would've been will never be.

Just as when I die or you die.

There was a time, when we didn't know that germs were killing us, and they were assumed to be plagues of god, yet now that we know they were germs we understand a bit more.

The whole light thing can and probably is now, explainable, yet we do not wish to see it except for what we would like to see.

This is merely your perception of death...but bear in mind that none of us have experienced it yet. You cannot procalim what will happen, because you do not know what will happen. There are a myriad of possibilities, and it's best to examine them all, imo. I often get infuriated when people tell me they participate in organized religion, but I have no right to judge, for even religion can bring out some goodness in people (though it's not really the 'religion' that brings out goodness)...

I can tell you here and now that there is in fact an afterlife. Whether you believe this or not is up to you, but a statement such as this means a lot coming from a person like me, who was once a disbelieving skeptic like yourself...

reply to post by esteay812


I think it's more than an alarm... when you feel physical pain, it can certainly affect you emotionally and mentally- it will alter your sense of joy and stop you thinking clearly and calmly, and there is no way to "know your body is experiencing feelings" unless you can actually feel those feelings within your own body itself.. which actually doesn't make you a seperate being from your physique at all, it's simply a part of you.

"Consciousness" could simply be the way our brain operates. Consciousness is perhaps a purely physical and chemical way in which our brain manifests itself...it's not necessarily "spiritual".

Therefore, consciousness may only be an "illusion" and may not actually exist. What we perceive as consciousness is simply our physical brain doing its thing.

Originally posted by Crying-Lightning
reply to post by triune

 

I disagree... The natural side and the intelligent side? I think the two are constantly part of each other and they aren't two different "sides" - isn't it true that the mind (the "intelligent side") exists within the brain, but the brain is a part of- in fact controls- the physical boday (the "natural side")?

And to say that we are not our body? That we are a THINKING and FEELING being? Well, that is a part of what we are... If someone pulls our hair or stabs us, then it is us that can FEEL it- as part of being a FEELING being.. Also, physical things always affect our THOUGHTS and FEELINGS... we can feel angry or happy ect. based on our physical senses. Although the physical body isn't the only part of who we are, it is still a part of us, and as important as any other part of us.

So long as we're in this body, we are human beings.. After we die as humans, we are no longer humans, no matter what happens to our souls next.

You are correct in saying that the two sides are constantly part of each other. Thats what the physical universe is all about. The intermeshing of the intelligent side (spiritual) and the natural side (physical). But this does not mean the two sides cannot be independant as well as interdependant.

When you dream, you do things, think things, say things, meet people you've never met before, go to places and see things never before seen. You have new experiences, feelings. You can feel fear in a dream when being chased by someone or something. Feel joy or happiness at seeing someone etc.

Until you 'wake up' and realise 'it was only a dream', that dream experience was as real to you as any other waking experience you've ever had. And all the while your body was asleep and unaware of your experience, and was not needed. The body is not needed for us to gain insight or experience.

Experiencing physical life in a human body is however the most practicle way for us to 'learn' at our present stage of development.
You are correct about physical things affecting our thoughts and feelings. It is the pull of nature on the human body that start feeling and desire (the real you) to thinking. Nature wants Food, sex, power, possessions, things, and 'we' emeshed in nature (the body) accept these bodily wants as what we want also. We are deluded into thinking that if we surrender to these wants we will be happy. But we never are, We always want more. The body will drive the mind over and over these wants for ever, until we learn that the things of nature do not provide the happiness we forever seek.

It is only after many many physical lives do we realise that nature cannot provide true happiness, and we seek the answers elsewhere. There is nowhere to go but inwards away from nature to our true spiritual essence.
This is known as 'The Great Way' or 'Being on the Way' and is the way for the spiritual being to disentangle itself from nature and end its rounds of reincarnations in human bodies and to be and exist wholly in the spiritual or intelligent side of the universe.

For all students of the human condition, see my previous post and follow the link to a gold mine of insight and information about 'what' you are and why you are here.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


My point is that there is no need for pain or emotion or any other thing imaginable without consciousness. Pain comes from the need to know if our developing body is being hurt or hindered. It ensures us that we will be able to protect ourselve and our growth. We would not need these feelings if not for consciousness.

It seems that if this is the case, consciousness must have came first and has in-turn facilitated the progression in which the Universe has developed.

It's almost like the Chicken or the Egg, except this time we know which must come first.

If consciousness came first, where did it come from. It is a reasonable question, because where ever consciousness came from is our true beginning - since we are a creation and part of the Universe.

If this is a fact then knowing this would mean knowing that we are an expression of the Universe's consciousness. We are at the cutting edge of advancement in the progression of this part of the Universe.

Where are we going ultimately? That would be a great question I think, because if we are the cutting edge of developement then our destiny will show where the Universe ultimately wants to go.

I'm giving myself a headache, so I'll stop there.

Before anyone bashes me for saying things like this you should know that this is just an idea. I don't believe it is written in stone or is, in-fact, what is happening.

It is just something I wonder about from now and then and seems logical a lot of the time.

edit for grammar

[edit on 24-7-2009 by esteay812]

reply to post by triune


Well, that really depends on what the dream is and what you beleive dreams are or the reason for them.. there are several theories, such as expressions for our subconscious or the way in which other relams want to communicate with us, or both.. neither of which have been scientificly proven. However, it is true that sometimes when we dream, it is related to our waking life, for example, if you dream you have failed an exam, it is extremely likely it is becasue of you fear for an up-coming exam... And yes, we do in dreams sometimes have experiences which we haven't had on earth, but don't you think that they often arise from what we have experienced in our waking life? For example, we could've learned about the solar system, some parts of space, we have seen birds fly, therefore result in us imagining ourselves flying to space? And of course, some people, even I myself, have "premonitions" in our dreams- or have had, so psychic dreams that have no physical, understandable explenation.. either way, both are related to our waking life, or maybe just our imagination?

We die, that is it, lights out, the lights go dim, and never go back up, the lights don't even really go dim, they go out, and the screen goes fuzzy in the screaming sound we all have learned to hate.

I would like to say to you that you won’t be the first person to believe that when you die, the lights go out and that’s it, oblivion. Neither would you be the first person to find out that oblivion is the very opposite of what you actually find after the event.

In stating that, I am not invoking New Age mumbo jumbo, nor speaking of a place mentioned in some airy fairy way by various religions, nor engaging in pseudoscience. However, the commonly held view that if we can’t see something, it doesn’t exist is erroneous.

Now at that point, the ATS mentality clicks in and says that it must be proven by science; that it must have been written about at some length and these published references must be provided; that photographs or video footage should be provided, as seeing is believing.

Mankind naturally assumes that it is the only form of intelligent life in our solar system, in our galaxy and in our universe. Why, because we can’t see any other forms of intelligent humanoid life forms. Man assumes that we are the supreme intelligence, and would be surprised to be informed that we are amongst the most backward of all humanoid life forms.

For example, we kill each other; we rape and pillage; pollute our planet in the same way a child craps in its’ own bathwater. We use nuclear reactors to power steam engines (turbines) to produce electricity; pump the Earth dry of oil and gas, and big business buys up inventions like fuel cell technology, to perpetuate the oil industry.

Much of humanity is starving, doesn’t have clean water to drink and is riddled with disease. Even in so called ‘advanced’ countries of the world like the USA, one in six people have no health insurance, and have to rely on charity to obtain healthcare. There’s not much which applies to an advanced society.

Now, I’m not attempting to pick an argument with you, or anyone else who shares your view that death equals oblivion, but if you search you will find evidence that there is indeed life after death, that within Creation there are many, many billions of people on billions of planets in multiple universes. There are noted scientists, philosophers, engineers, artists, composers and musicians, architects and many more from both other professions and none, who have carried on with their work after they have ‘died’, and subsequently published books through telepathy with people who haven’t ‘died’.

In fact the governments of the USA, Russia, Great Britain and other powers use the so-called New Age techniques of Telepathy and Remote Viewing for intelligence purposes, and this too is widely published.

If you want to go look for it, then do so; and if you don’t then don’t bother; but it’s out there awaiting discovery by each individual. That being said, I’ve spent over 34 years researching these things, and this is ongoing. If anyone wants to start investigating this, you have to be open-minded. If you set out to disprove a theory to yourself, you’ll achieve that aim very easily. If you set out to prove the theory, then you’ll open yourself up to fakers and pseudoscience, so an open mind is essential.

Where should you start? Google it, because that’s a good place to start and is the primary research tool of our age, and the results can be refined and checked for truth, using your intuition, that still small voice within us all.

Thirty four years ago I was adamant that when you ‘die’, that’s it, nothing only oblivion could be expected, and that we were the only inhabited planet in the whole of Creation. It’s been a long journey, and it continues.

reply to post by Tallsorts


Yeah, I agree with you; also, just because one light goes dim, it doesn't mean that it's not because a new one will be born, there was a quote from Rabindranoth Tagore- "Death is not extinguidhing the light; it is putting out the lamp because dawn has come."

There is no way to know one way or the other for sure, without some sort of faith or confidence in your own ideas or beliefs.

Imagine how this life would be if it were common knowledge that there is a type of existence after this life. How many people do you think would be hanging around here? When equipped with this knowledge a large majority of the population would simply commit suicide.

I do have an idea that we are a part of the Universe's consciousness and our physical bodies are a tool to utilize the consciousness in a concentrated form.

The Universe obviously knows everything that is in it, because everything is a part of it. Possibly our existence and the existence of some of the things that we create are brought about out of neccessity.

Maybe the Universe is trying to create, at least once, everything possible. Like a huge, all-encompasing equation, Maybe the purpose of the Universe is to experience everything possible that could ever be thought of or imagined.

Only Who knows. Either way, it seems more like our bodies are a vessel to contain a small portion of Universal consciousness. We are part of the Universe, and our minds may always be - without the hinderance of personal and secular memories of every single life we may live.

Originally posted by esteay812
There is no way to know one way or the other for sure, without some sort of faith or confidence in your own ideas or beliefs.

Imagine how this life would be if it were common knowledge that there is a type of existence after this life. How many people do you think would be hanging around here? When equipped with this knowledge a large majority of the population would simply commit suicide.

The Universe obviously knows everything that is in it, because everything is a part of it. Possibly our existence and the existence of some of the things that we create are brought about out of neccessity.

Maybe the Universe is trying to create, at least once, everything possible. Like a huge, all-encompasing equation, Maybe the purpose of the Universe is to experience everything possible that could ever be thought of or imagined.

Yepp.. I mean, think about all those muslim suicide bombers, who did it because they truely beleived it was best for themselves and everyone else.. even though they had no right to, of course. Although, the universal "rules" could be different in the case of suicide; I beleive that if there is such thing as the afterlife, it must be a path especially designed for us each as individuals, depending on the path we chose to take in this life- after all, it's the way in which we choose to live, the things which we choose to do, the places which we choose to go ect. that greatly determine our death and what leads up to it- therefore must surely influence the afterlife... Isn't that the whole base meaning of "universe"? Like, everything imaginable, everything possible, everything that could ever be? Every single place, creature and object?