The U.S.A was NOT created by Christians

I've just been doing some reading on some of the Founding Fathers and found it very interesting that a lot (if not most) of the Founding Fathers were in some way either completely opposed to Christianity or at least the Church. I am not implying that i AM Christian or that i AM not, im merely here to try and get a better understanding of what the Founding Fathers really thought, since it was with their thoughts and ideals that the U.S was born under. Here's just some quotes to exemplify what im curious about.

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find
in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They
are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men,
women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been
burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to
support roguery and error all over the earth."

-Thomas Jefferson

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on
man...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the
teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and imposters led by Paul, the
first great corruptor of the teachings of Jesus."

-Thomas Jefferson

"Question with boldness the existence of God. I do not believe any of the Christian doctrines. The greatest enemies of Jesus are the doctrines and creeds of the church. It would be more pardonable to believe in no God at all then to blaspheme him by the atrocious writings of the theologians. John Calvin was a demon and malignant spirit."

-Thomas Jefferson

"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for
absurdity."

-John Adams

"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the
Christian religion."

-John Adams after signing the Treaty of Tripoli, 1796

"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to
that book (the Bible)."

-Thomas Paine (my favorite)

"It is the duty of every true Diest to vindicate the moral justice of God
against the evils of the Bible."

-Thomas Paine

"Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and
you will have sins in abundance."

-Thomas Paine

"The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in
pretend imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty."

-Thomas Paine

The Christian God is a being of terrific character- cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust.

-Thomas Jefferson

During fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been it its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolences in the clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.

-James Madison

As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how it has happened that millions of fables, tales, legends have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.

-John Adams

I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has produced- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced.

-John Adams

Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak mines are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.

-Thomas Jefferson

Interesting that the FF were always (as i have seen and heard) shown as very religious and Christian people... strange indeed.

I've studied the topic a good bit. They were not all Christians, but they obviously followed the principles of Jesus etc. They were absolutely familiar with the evils of the church, and were not in favor of that. So it was not founded by the Christian church is really the truth of the matter in the end.

I'm sure you've probably come across the Jefferson bible. Where he takes just the message and understanding of Jesus and removes all the other stuff. Which goes to show what he thought was important.

So, if someone tries to say it was founded by Christians as a way of trying to enforce certain religious topics, they are wrong. If that is done, then it is founded on a church. But if someone tries to say completely the opposite, then it's also false.

Many of them were "Christians" but were fleeing the church and looking for religious freedom. In order to have freedom of something, then a choice can not be made either in favor of, or against. And that is basically what they did.

You'll find a mixture.

And there are lots of other issues wrapped in there that is much deeper. Economic debates, debates on Slavery and so forth.

One of them Thomas Jefferson did believe in Christ's teachings!

We are kinda the same in that regard, I don't accept the whole Bible as truth based on my research and experience.

The concept of money and jobs shouldn't be in the Bible at all. These two are the greatest obstacles to attaining enlightenment and understanding the truth as I am beginning to find out (not claiming I have attained enlightenment)

Interesting. I did read that a lot of them did actually follow the teachings of Jesus but what gets me is this image that has been created in the years since the nations creation, that it is a Christian nation. I don't know if its just me but i really do get that image, ofcourse i know better now though.

Youre RIGHT! some of them were even atheist!

Thats why they decided that freedom of religion was the way to go!

Godbless the people and era where they could see each other for their opposing views,many faults, and still use a level hand, cool head, and fair reasoning for a just cause.....

Alright, some of them were religious. Some not so much. Brings up some questions though.

Doesn't this just show what happens when people work together?

Why do you think other people portrayed them as very religious if they were in fact not? What do you think their motivation was? Do you think they were trying to deceive you, and if so, who else do you think might be trying to deceive you currently?

Do you think what the founding fathers did was a good thing? What if they had all been super religious? Is what they did still a good a thing? What if they were all atheists? Is the founding of a nation still a good thing?

In other words, is it their actions that are important or their beliefs? Is it important that they believed one way or the other?

[edit on 3-6-2009 by tinfoilman]

Hi serbsta, are you talking about America pre-independence, or when america was declared independant in it own right?
If its answers into the masonic pre-independence history I can recommend a very concise read in : Micheal Baigent & Richard Leighs' book; The Temple And The Lodge.
Although I was never particularly interested in the history of 'white america', I found this book hard to put down!

Dogma clouds the mind...
"Second verse, same as the first" (Second line)

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Hi serbsta, are you talking about America pre-independence, or when america was declared independant in it own right?
If its answers into the masonic pre-independence history I can recommend a very concise read in : Micheal Baigent & Richard Leighs' book; The Temple And The Lodge.
Although I was never particularly interested in the history of 'white america', I found this book hard to put down!

I am talking about the United States of America, when it was declared independent. And yes i've read that book, very interesting, but seems to neglect a lot of facts for the sake of the argument.

Too right america is not a christian country and never was. People use christian beliefs to hide what they really felt, and believed in.

I believe that america was set up for what it is doing today, i know you guys think that is not possible but i think the powers running the play or show here on earth plan far ahead. Like whats going on today in america was planned for decades, just obama is playing his role in the performance and just having his day in the sun.

reply to post by serbsta


Well I guess if you've read that book, and presumably many others you'd already have a good idea about it all then!
Have a nice thread

Originally posted by andy1033
Too right america is not a christian country and never was. People use christian beliefs to hide what they really felt, and believed in.

I believe that america was set up for what it is doing today, i know you guys think that is not possible but i think the powers running the play or show here on earth plan far ahead. Like whats going on today in america was planned for decades, just obama is playing his role in the performance and just having his day in the sun.

Nah, it's been a constant struggle since the start. Since the creation of the US outside forces have never stopped in trying to make it fall. For example the central bank issue has been around since the start. And the central bank is of course the way the control and such is ultimately gained. Took them quite awhile to get it down actually. Even when they did finally get the federal reserve, it was given in a way that was supposed to stop exactly what it does.

The constitution has been a pain in the butt for them.

But politically they have been able to get it slide by having 2 arms of the same party. They swap republican and democrats back and forth. They are supposed to be polar opposites. But all they do is swap them back and forth. Add the government each side wants, and you get a completely authoritarian government. Meanwhile, they sell themselves based on the government they supposedly don't want, pointing out how "evil" the other side is(based on the government the other side wants) but never get rid of the other sides programs.

The majority of people want both social and economic freedom. But neither of the 2 parties offer that. By design. Hardly a religious issue however.

I just wanted to say that it's hard to verify quotes by the founding fathers. I've heard plenty of quotes by them that say things in opposition to these quotes given here.

My suspicion is that quotes that were made by the founding fathers have been manipulated by both sides of the argument. I mean, who better to have on your side on an issue like this than a founding father?

Treaty of Tripoli, article 11...........
wiki

Many of our founding fathers were Deist.
Deism

I had always thought that the US was founded on christianity until last year, (40+ years). Then I looked into what Deism was and now I can see why most Americans have this misconception.

BTW, Those quotes are very interesting!

"Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine is a very interesting read. Highly recommend!!!!