The Chinese Death Trucks - very good example of spin

reply to post by A Conscience

The Chinese communists has not yet mastered or lacked the ability to sanitise dastardly actions with fanciful words. For eg.

- Collateral damage (bomb the #s out of the civilian population)
- Rendition (torture the living daylights out of the poor bastard, but do it somewhere else)
- Friendly fire (Oops sorry! Blown you to smithereens by mistake)
- Shock & awe (make sure even the earth worms are dead)
- Neutralize (Make sure he's really dead and one more to the head)
- Embedded Journalist (You bloody well report what I tell you to!)
- Unilateral Journalist (Don't want to be embedded? Hey guys, see who can shoot one first.)
- Operation Iraqi Freedom (We want the freedom to take your oil)

I hear you ...

Even though it's a 'little dated' ( but that's ok, since I'm pretty long in the tooth ) my own personal favorite happens to be, "the Peacekeeper" -

Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle - Mode of operation

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4631deb01d68.png[/atsimg]
In a MIRV, the main rocket motor (or booster) pushes a "bus" (see illustration) into a freely-falling suborbital ballistic flight path. After the boost phase the bus maneuvers using on-board small rocket motors and a computerised inertial guidance system. It takes up a ballistic trajectory that will deliver a reentry vehicle containing a warhead to a target, and then releases a warhead on that trajectory. It then maneuvers to a different trajectory, releasing another warhead, and repeats the process for all warheads.

Source : Wikipedia

Like they say - "that's progress for you !"

Boy, there sure are a bunch of spoiled pantsy "civilized" Americans on this board. You're sitting on the high horse because of the atrocities your ancestors have done and your fellow citizens are doing. Just because you've progressed to the point where those atrocities happen in other countries instead of your own doesn't make you any more noble or civilized. You're still the ones responsible.

You may not buy from Wal-Mart, for example, but do you know why you're rich enough to not need to buy from Wal-Mart? Because others save money by buying from Wal-Mart so they have the money to purchase whatever services you provide. Your gas is cheaper because you support a Saudi government that oppresses its people and gender-discriminates FAR worse than China. An occasional dead baby girl? How about publicly stoned to death for BEING raped and reported it? Your computers and diamonds are cheaper because you support genocidal governments, such as the one in Rwanda, that can murder hundreds of thousands if not millions a year.

China is treating Tibetans a lot better than the Americans treated the Indians. You have to gain your territory somehow. Just because it happened over 200 years ago doesn't make it any more just. You just watch, in 200 years, heck, give it 50, Tibet will be so inundated with ethnic Chinese that all Tibetans voices will be drowned out, just like the Indians in the U.S. At least China didn't force them to relocate to "Tibetan reservations."

How did the western nations become so rich that the sissies can afford to live on vegetables alone while other countries are still starving? It sure didn't have anything to do with forcibly selling Opium to China. Nah. It sure didn't have anything to do with all the slavery laws that didn't exist until they were already rich. Nah. It sure didn't have anything to do with all the raw materials imported from "Colonies"(those are invaded, conquered territories, let's face it). Nah. It has nothing to do with those things. It's because they're "civilized".

Another perfect example of western arrogance. This may be deviating slighty from the topic and may require a new thread, but nevertheless, worth watching for the time being.

I guarantee you won't be disappointed one way or another.
www.sbs.com.au...

Fast forward to 01.30 of the video.

Oh boy I knew this would degrade into America sucks. Yes we are evil because we are human. Sometimes I feel like people treat countries like their lover: You can't do anything right! You don't love me right! You don't do what I want you to do! Why did you do what you did 3 years ago to me...

Then they think some other lover/country has the right attitude because it's newer to them--until time shows everyone has screwed up (or continues to). We all do it daily, the government is made of humans so human screw ups will happen again.

Like a good relationship: forgiveness, communication, loving, and mutual goals is a great way to come together but it takes TIME!! China at least gets this, that changes don't happen necessarily in one lifetime, people are slow to change...just keep steering the boat and accept sometimes you go the wrong way.

This site and even this topic is a great way to do that, but please stop with the bashing...you will turn people off, even if you are wronged in life, you won't change it by putting people in a box of evil that they have to fight to get out of. Every discussion will become a battle of egos instead of change. Look at Israel and Palestine...do you want to brand people and their pasts so much that they can't build a future?

Rich love ya man. I may not agree with you all the time or comment much on your posts, but you start posts that make people think.

I'm not really into "venting" so I stay out of these topics, but once in a while I weakly jump in...I guess some people need to get it out somehow in their posts, I think I'm past that. I'm more interested in topics that bring up an issue and then ask "How do we overcome this or reach middle ground so it doesn't happen again?", yet it needs to do it where you don't brand people with a label. Of course there are points where you just say: "Hey I disagree, here's your space and here's mine...were not robots so we'll have to accept we have different preferences or experiences that make us think like we do." Just don't trample on the other person's freedom while you do what you do.

Again America at times is; hypocritical, dumb, has screwed up, killed innocents, taken freedoms and hurt even it's own people. But America is "group of humans that live in this area and educated in this culture, this way". It is not a "thing" it is a group and groups can be persuaded with intelligent thoughts. Accuse them and brand them with a name and you won't go anywhere, they'll just fight you to defend their ego.

[edit on 4/1/09 by Atomic]

reply to post by Atomic


Hey, sorry, I thought this was a bash China post and I was just putting things in another perspective. Still, appreciate your comments and honest opinions.

If more people think like you, than maybe, we'll get a much better world.

[edit on 1-4-2009 by A Conscience]

Originally posted by Atomic
Oh boy I knew this would degrade into America sucks. Yes we are evil because we are human. Sometimes I feel like people treat countries like their lover: You can't do anything right! You don't love me right! You don't do what I want you to do! Why did you do what you did 3 years ago to me...

Then they think some other lover/country has the right attitude because it's newer to them--until time shows everyone has screwed up (or continues to). We all do it daily, the government is made of humans so human screw ups will happen again.

Like a good relationship: forgiveness, communication, loving, and mutual goals is a great way to come together but it takes TIME!! China at least gets this, that changes don't happen necessarily in one lifetime, people are slow to change...just keep steering the boat and accept sometimes you go the wrong way.

This site and even this topic is a great way to do that, but please stop with the bashing...you will turn people off, even if you are wronged in life, you won't change it by putting people in a box of evil that they have to fight to get out of. Every discussion will become a battle of egos instead of change. Look at Israel and Palestine...do you want to brand people and their pasts so much that they can't build a future?

Rich love ya man. I may not agree with you all the time or comment much on your posts, but you start posts that make people think.

I'm not really into "venting" so I stay out of these topics, but once in a while I weakly jump in...I guess some people need to get it out somehow in their posts, I think I'm past that. I'm more interested in topics that bring up an issue and then ask "How do we overcome this or reach middle ground so it doesn't happen again?", yet it needs to do it where you don't brand people with a label. Of course there are points where you just say: "Hey I disagree, here's your space and here's mine...were not robots so we'll have to accept we have different preferences or experiences that make us think like we do." Just don't trample on the other person's freedom while you do what you do.

Again America at times is; hypocritical, dumb, has screwed up, killed innocents, taken freedoms and hurt even it's own people. But America is "group of humans that live in this area and educated in this culture, this way". It is not a "thing" it is a group and groups can be persuaded with intelligent thoughts. Accuse them and brand them with a name and you won't go anywhere, they'll just fight you to defend their ego.

[edit on 4/1/09 by Atomic]

I suppose I came out a bit anti-American in my post, but that's not how I feel. I certainly don't think America is some sort of evil empire as many portray her to be. I just don't believe that China is one either. I simply wanted to point out the hypocrisy and arrogance of some of the posters on here.

Really I think we are all missing the point in regards to the thread. There is more to this than just the trucks and organ harvesting by China. The bigger issue is global and a lack of focus on the 'global' issue of human rights and aid.

Here is an example:

I need this

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2100c1f250d2.jpg[/atsimg]

So that I can bring the aid to people like these

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cac447c3a698.jpg[/atsimg]

but no one wants to help me get what I need.
(you can u2u me if you do)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, if I wanted this

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8f10adce7d7e.jpg[/atsimg]

so that I can do this

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d36cc9217418.jpg[/atsimg]

then there is no problem getting what I want.

The hypocrisy of it all, we are always willing to point the finger at what someone else is doing but fail to look at ourselves. Yes China has the trucks but we have Iraq and what we have done there. The problem is, how can we stop it? On both sides of the fence it is big business and there is money to be made. Though I must admit war makes more money but also does more damage. Organ harvesting is cleaner but kills just the same.

I guess what I am trying to say, wither it is a bullet or a needle, we are in the business of killing for profit. So its also like the pot calling the kettle black.

You guys are missing the point here. The REAL issue is: why is this THREE year old story suddenly making the rounds again today? If you google it, this story is EVERYWHERE, posted/written in the last week, and rephrases, almost verbatim, the original story from 2006.

www.usatoday.com...

media.www.thetriangle.org...

So ask yourself, why the resurgence of this story now?

reply to post by Jadette

... why the resurgence of this story now?

My own take on it, and you may agree too if you keep it in mind, is that Obama, and indeed the entire US gov't is looking 'pretty scruffy' at the moment.

So, one of the major roles of MSM is now being seen - 'damage control' ...

Individuals do it to each other, and on an entirely different level so also do governments - 'make oneself look better by making the other guy look worse ...

Standard propaganda 101 ...

If one keeps this 'principal' in mind many, many examples become obvious in short order.

reply to post by Jadette

So ask yourself, why the resurgence of this story now?

But, China bashing has got no use by date. It is a topic that guarantees a feeding frenzy. So why let the age of the article get in the way?

reply to post by Jadette


The original story might be from 2006 but that has no bearing on the trucks on the street in 2009. Could there be another motive for retelling the story, sure, most likely to get people distracted. From what, I don't know.

I hope that you are not suggesting that they have stopped the practice of organ harvesting. Because they haven't and won't unless the market dries up and we know that's not about to happen any time soon.

So any idea what the distraction might be for?

reply to post by pstrron


Well if you read my post really carefully, you'll notice I didn't address China's policies. In part because I'm not sure what I think about the death penalty - in any nation. On the one hand, it's about the innocent man. How do you guarantee that an innocent man doesn't die? On the other, is human life sacrosanct? I'm not sure I think it is. If it's for the better good of society, if a man has no value, ie kills, murders, rapes and so on, wouldn't we be better off without them? But I'm far from ready to defend either thought.

But I am uncomfortable with the idea that the State sells the organs. Because it sets a dangerous precident that the 'meat' might have more value to society than the life did. And I would never want that to weigh the decision on if a man should live or die.

Nor did I imply in any way, that they had stopped or that the story was invalid now. If you got that from what I posted, I apologize.

reply to post by Jadette


No worries, I misunderstood your meaning.

If it's for the better good of society, if a man has no value, ie kills, murders, rapes and so on, wouldn't we be better off without them? But I'm far from ready to defend either thought.

As you have pointed out a very serious problem that in fact could lead to a slippery slope. If we made allowances for the man/woman that kills, murders, rapes and so on to be harvested, then what would prevent its spreading to other areas? Could lead to Solent Green if we were not careful. This could give a whole new meaning to 'meat wagon'.

There is no doubt that mans cruelty to man abounds but his mercy and generosity leaves much to be desired.

You also have the social mindset in China that life is cheap or only has monetary value. Not that they do not love their kids but they look at them as a paycheck when the parent gets old. They do not plan for their retirement beyond that. If the child dies they feel that they have no future because who will feed them.

After the earthquake, they had the parents on tv that lost their child complaining as to who would take care of them when they got old. One man said he was to old at age 35 to have another child to take the place of the one that died. They were sad at the loss of their child but also complained about the loss of a future paycheck. It is a totally different mindset.

Mao waxed 30 million in just one province as they were deemed unproductive and he wanted to use the land for gov reasons. Why relocate them when you can exterminate them. You have to wonder about a gov that is willing to kill all of its people for one little island. To them life has no value unless it can be converted into hard cash. Thus they have the trucks and organs for sell to anyone with the cash.

reply to post by A Conscience


Sorry for the delay, too much work and play the past week. Thanks to you and dingibvs. You guys made my day reading that. Thought I might be told to take a hike, ha.

Thanks again guys.