Hypothesis: Could the "New World Order" be referring to a world-wide post-2012 survival plan?

Ok, I originally posted this in the wrong forum. I posted in in aliens/UFO's by mistake. I asked the moderators to move it for me, but nobody has yet...so I'm just going to repost it here.

Moderators, is it possible for you to move my original thread to this forum? Thanks.

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Hypothesis: Could the NWO (New World Order) be referring to a world-wide post-2012 survival plan?

Ok, so I came up with another hypothesis today (Sorry, but I can't help it, I love coming up with hypotheses and theories!)

Here is my hypothesis: I think that the NWO (New World Order) is not a plan to take over the world and kill 80% of the world's population, as many people claim. Instead, I think the term New World Order refers to a "survival plan" put into place to help the world survive the events of 2012, so the population of the earth will not fall into another "dark ages."

How did I come up with this hypotheses?

Well, if you've read my previous threads that I've posted on ATS, you'll see that I just have a really hard time with the concept of the NWO (that they are planning on killing 80% of the world's population and taking over the world) to begin with.

However, it also seems that plans are definitely in place for something major to happen. You can't deny that. FEMA camps, FEMA coffins, underground bases, the Army wanting to take over the southeastern part of of Colorado, etc...

Also, I'm a big believer in the Mayan prophecies, because they have been so accurate in the past. I mean, their calendar is STILL more accurate than ours.

But today, I came up with my hypothesis when I read George Ure's blog (Urban Survival.com)

Today, George said that someone passed him an article from a Belgian newspaper that said this:


"Today NASA keeps precise track of the North pole traveling South, and they admit that the speed of the North Pole´s acceleration increased dramatically the last few years. Furthermore, NASA recently confirmed there will be a `problematic weakening´ of the Earth's protective magnetic field around 2012.."


bog link: www.urbansurvival.com...

Also, in his same blog today, he also reports that he also saw the following story pop up on Fox News.


Powerful Solar Storm Could Shut Down U.S. for Months

A new study from the National Academy of Sciences outlines grim possibilities on Earth for a worst-case scenario solar storm


The article states that these storms are supposed to peak around 2012.

Here is the link to the article:

www.foxnews.com...


Ok, so George Ure made this connection. If both of these events happen as NASA says they are, NASA's research could be correlating what the Mayans and others have predicted for thousands of years. The perfect storm may be getting set up for 2012: allignment with the galactic center, the weakening of our earth's EM field, and sun storms, all happening at once.

Then, I started thinking this: Is it really possible that our government doesn't know about 2012? With all our sophisticated research at NASA's hands, could they really not have known about this before hand? I thought: they MUST have known, but are just keeping it secret from us. Probably to prevent a world-wide panic.

Could this be the reason why all the world's governments built the massive seed bank in Norway? Could they have known this all along, and just aren't telling us about it?
Could this also be the real reason for the talk about having plans in place for martial law, and tons of FEMA coffins at the ready?

And then, I thought of all the gossip that has bee floating around about NWO secret meetings between the most powerful familes of the world. And gossip that they are planning on taking over the world, and killing 80% of the world's population, etc...

So, this is the connection that I made in MY mind:

IF the information about the procession of the equinoxes has been known since the time of Ancient Egypt, and then passed down through the ages through the Knights Templar and the Freemasons (who supposedly hid secrets of 2012 in all thieir ornate carvings on buildings, etc...)

AND

IF the most powerful families on the face of planet earth are also known to be members of secret societies and are meeting in secret more often now....


AND

IF there are rumors are true that 80% of the world's population is going to die, and they are making plans to create a New World Order...

THEN,

I think that maybe the NWO (New World Order) is referring to a SURVIVAL PLAN that has been put into effect for the 20% of the world who is predicted to survive the catastrophic effects of 2012 and it's aftermath.

Think about it....it makes sense. You know that game "operator" that kids play? You say one thing into one person's ear, and it gets whispered around a circle, and by the end of the circle, the original message was totally distorted.

So, let's say the most powerful families on earth are indeed having secret meetings, to figure out how the world's population can continue to survive in a way that does not put us into another millenia of "dark ages" again. Maybe in truth, that is what they are trying to prevent....another dark ages.

But, rumors start, and the truth gets distorted, and people start hearing that the the most powerful familes are making plans to kill 80% of the world off.

And then, people hear of all the stuff that people are hearing about: FEMA camps, FEMA coffins, Martial Law....they start thinking "Aha! Proof that they want to take over the world and get rid of the rest of us!"

But in reality, what if the FEMA camps are survival stations set up to deal with 2012, and they are more like survival camps, and not death camps??

What if all these undergorund bases we're hearing about are survival caves? What if the radiation will be so bad that we have to hide out in underground bases for years to survive 2012.

Well, that would make sense of why they wouldn't tell us. It would create a total panic. Everybody would want to be part of the 20%...it could start massive rioting, massive panic, and destroy the entire survival plan.

So, that's my thinking.

Maybe the NWO is a survival plan for the 20% who can be saved.

And who knows....maybe they DO have an idea of who they will let survive, and who they won't.

That is awesome!!!, Finally a collective spin in a positive manner to bring it all together. much of what you have said have been my thoughts on the whole thing. Nice!!!

Very nice post, I enjoyed it.

One question though, what are the Mayan prophecies? What have they predicted in the past and what are their future predictions?

So... they totally ruin our economy and damn near enslave all of us through their racketeering-schemes. But they truly mean us no harm. They don't want us trampling each other in a giant stampede... They want to silence dissidents, remove unwanted, and save their 20% pure race...

...while they could have been telling us 3, 5, even 10 years ago. So we would have been able to start designing and implementing plans to save all the free people of the earth.

This is unacceptable!

(please pardon my possibly incoherrent post, I'm waaay past bedtime)

reply to post by Carlthulhu


Well, they know they cant save everyone so they take all our money to build up infrastructure and stock up on necessities to save enough people to re-populate the earth.

reply to post by Waldy



LOL
The NWO are not in the main decision makinf for the New World plan, and 2012 will arrive sadly to late for many of our brothers and sisters.
They are many other secret agendas going on, all to gain their peice of the cake, why pay people to work when you can have a billion slaves to do the work for you.......

Wow, don't know huh, Well rather that write more than my limit of words, I will suggest you do a web search of the Mayan calendar and their history. In a short they were very good at reading the stars and the future events of our solar system, and other great historical events. Do some research, it will be a great read.

Nikiano,

Unfortunately, you don’t have anywhere near enough proof to base your theory. Actually let me be more precise, re-rephrasing your theory, enough evidence for anyone to believe you. If I were you, I would start watching military spending costs and analyze the annual budget being released by the government to find loop holes.

You state a key word in your testimony of nwo, gossip that alone debunks your theory. You can never base anything off of gossip, where is the evidence? Where are you basing your findings from? Once you have accumulated all of your evidence, and then post your findings. Who knows you could be onto something? But, as it stands nothing that anyone with any logic would believe.

Originally posted by Johnathanrs
Nikiano,

Unfortunately, you don’t have anywhere near enough proof to base your theory.

Which is why I did not call it a theory....I clearly called it a hypothesis. As a scientist I know that a hypothesis requires no proof. What it is is a statement of intent; a valid question looking to be answered. After research, if supporting evidence is found (and I can assure you there is much to be found), then that supporting evidence can then help turn the hypothesis into a theory.

I suggest you read up on what a hypothesis is. For example in wikipedia, you will find
this explanation of what a hypothesis can be:

In common usage in the 21st century, a hypothesis refers to a provisional idea whose merit requires evaluation. For proper evaluation, the framer of a hypothesis needs to define specifics in operational terms. A hypothesis requires more work by the researcher in order to either confirm or disprove it. In due course, a confirmed hypothesis may become part of a theory or occasionally may grow to become a theory itself. Normally, scientific hypotheses have the form of a mathematical model. Sometimes, but not always, one can also formulate them as existential statements, stating that some particular instance of the phenomenon under examination has some characteristic and causal explanations, which have the general form of universal statements, stating that every instance of the phenomenon has a particular characteristic.

However, having said that, you have no right to tell me how I should or should not post on this forum, or how much evidence I need or do not need. This is a discussion forum, and not a peer-reviewed scientific journal. I do not need evidence nor proof in order to share my thoughts and hypothesis with other members, or to open up a topic for conversation.

Quite frankly, I don't care if you or any of the other "logical people" out there believe me or not. I don't care if anyone believes me. My intention of this post was not to get anyone to believe me, but rather to open up a discussion and share a hypothesis.

However, if you really don't think I have any logic, I think the university who granted me my doctorate degree would probably disagree with you.




[edit on 11-1-2009 by nikiano]

Good post, S & F for you nikiano.

This thread really tied together a bunch of ideas that have been floating around in my mind lately. It would truly make sense that this is what they are trying to do.

What if they aren't trying to kill 80% of the population on Earth. What if they already understand that this is a predetermined absolute that mankind will face in the very near future? Regardless of whether they want to get rid of us or not, its already going to happen in some form or another. Who knows, maybe these FEMA camps will turn out to be the bastions of hope and peace on a bloody planet torn apart by Judgement.

Eh.... I'd still rather ride the vibration train straight to the center of the galaxy, baby.

reply to post by nikiano

I love your thinking behind your hypothesis! It definitely explains the fema coffins better than the mass extermination by the US government....only problem is, I'm not quite sure which is the most frightening/dangerous of the two options!

And your hypothesis is very worthy of debate, a nice star and flag for you!

And your hypothesis is very worthy of debate, a nice star and flag for you!

Thanks to you and everyone else who liked my idea.

I would love to get a good debate going about my hypothesis, too, so I also posted a link to this thread in the NWO forum.

The "debunkers" will probably be out in full-force, of course. (I consider debunkers to be people who are not interested in a real debate, but who are only interested in debunking any hypothesis that shows up on ATS without, in turn, providing one of their own.) They are always asking me for hard evidence for my hypotheses, even though hypotheses do not require hard evidence when they are first presented.

But, if they do insist on asking me for "hard evidence", as I'm sure they will, I would like to ask them to first provide me some "hard evidence" (and not circumstantial evidence) that the NWO is indeed planning on wiping out 80% of the world's population and enslaving the 10 to 20% who are left.





[edit on 11-1-2009 by nikiano]

Sounds interesting, not entirely possible though given our knowledge of past events, wars, terrorist acts etc....

Definitely puts a spin on the thinking though and will now be looking more closely at how certain things are presented.

S&F

Originally posted by Waldy
Very nice post, I enjoyed it.

One question though, what are the Mayan prophecies? What have they predicted in the past and what are their future predictions?

Waldy,

This is such an extensive subject, I hate to give just a few threads to send you to. Plus, I'm definitely not an authority on the subject, so I don't know the best sites to send anyone to.

However, I found a nice website here:

www.cogwriter.com...

It provides both sides of the debate.

Here are the basics of the Mayan calendar, from that website.

The Mayans had rather similar beliefs to the Aztecs though with some major differences of emphasis. Several of their bark-books have been preserved showing their amazing knowledge and fascination with astronomy.The most important of these was what is now called the "Dresden Codex", named after the town in whose library it was lodged. This strange book, inscribed with unknown hieroglyphs, was written by Maya Indians who once ruled over much of Central America, the ruins of their once grand civilization littering the jungle. In 1880 a brilliant, German scholar, who was working as a librarian in Dresden at the time, turned his attention to this codex. By a process of extraordinary detective work he cracked the code of the Mayan calendar making it possible for other scholars and explorers to translate the many dated inscriptions to be found on buildings, stelae and other ancient Mayan artefacts. He discovered that the Dresden Codex itself was concerned with astronomy providing detailed tables of lunar eclipses and other phenomenon. These were so accurate that they put our own calendar to shame.

The website does a pretty good job of explaining that there are two sides to every debate, and he summarizes it all up nicely to say this:

The History Channel and other television sources have picked up on us, and now many people are concerned that December 21, 2012/December 22, 2012 will mark a time of destruction and the end of civilization. Several have looked into certain of the books premises and alleged facts and have disagreed with them. However, it is generally agreed that some type of astronomical alignment will occur around December 21, 2012.

Also, he says this:

Here is a picture of the last page of the actual Dresden Codex (Kingsborough version)--this is the page that suggests that the world will end in a flood

He gives links to download copies of the actual Dresden codex, but there are different speeds for downloading, so you'll have to pick the one that's best for your computer.

Here is a really good website that describes what will happen astronomically on December 21, 2012:

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Here is a summary sentence:

In terms of Mayan astronomy and mythology, the Dark Rift feature (which the Maya called the Black Road or Xibalba be) lies along the galactic equator (the Milky Way) in the place where the December solstice sun will be in 2012. (More precisely, the December solstice sun will reach the southern terminus of the Dark Rift, where it touches the ecliptic in Sagittarius.)

Thus, in terms of Mayan mythology, we can also describe the Galactic Alignment of era-2012 as the alignment of the December solstice sun and the Dark Rift. This entire region is targeted by the cross formed by the Milky Way and the ecliptic between Sagittarius and Scorpio. This Cross was also recognized by the Maya, and was called the Crossroads or Sacred Tree. This entire region is embraced by what astronomers call the 'nuclear bulge' of the Galactic Center—the center of our Milky Way galaxy.

More to come:


[edit on 11-1-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 11-1-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 11-1-2009 by nikiano]

Except the mayans made no prophecy about 2012...anyway,i dont believe with the evidence you've shown your hypothesis,but ill give you a star and a flag since you've probably put some time into it atleast.

Originally posted by Solomons
Except the mayans made no prophecy about 2012...

Thanks for the star and flag, but actually, this is not entirely true. You have to look at the big picture:

The Mayans believed that all things happened in cycles, and each cycle had a specific prophecy attached to it. (For example, we can say that generally, we predict that December will be cold and July will be hot. Except the Mayans did this very, very specifically with each time segment in an entire age.)

Each age was divided into smaller segments, and the end of each segment was a time of huge change. And those changes can be found in the geologic record of earth; huge floods, etc...

On top of that, December 21/22 is not only the end of a segment, but it is also the end of the 13th segment, AND the end of the AGE. Which also coincides with the galactic allignment. Each end of an age also is a time of great change.

Let me find a great explanation of the 13th Baktun so you can see what it exactly says:
(searching....)

It was explained really well on a show on the history channel I saw once....maybe I can find that on youtube.



[edit on 11-1-2009 by nikiano]

Ok, I found the History Channel segment on youtube. Good explanation. It is posted in 4 parts. Each segment is only about 3 minutes long.

Part 1:

www.youtube.com...

Part 2:

www.youtube.com...

Part 3:

www.youtube.com...

Part 4:

www.youtube.com...

Another youtube segment about Mayan calendar and 2012:

www.youtube.com...


So, that's a basic summary of the Mayan calendar prophecies.
Plus, if you've been watching the history channel this past week, you'll see that there are many prophecies from other cultures that seem to congregate on or around the year 2012.

However, regardless of how you feel about the 2012 prophecies (whether they are from the Maya, the I-ching, or the Bible, etc....) we now have NASA's research (released this week) indicating that massive sunstorms and a lowering of the earth's magnetic fields will both be happening in 2012.

So, now do we not only have various ancient prophecies culminating in 2012, but we also have NASA research pointing to that year. Which means, that something major could definitely be happening on or around the year of 2012.

And if that is true, and if powerful organizations and governments around the world know about this, then I think that it's possible that the "new world order" may actually be referring to a "survival plan" of some sorts.




[edit on 12-1-2009 by nikiano]

reply to post by nikiano


Ok, “Doctor” as you state. I find it interesting that a doctor would be making a debate on a random forum, instead of making an official post or article regarding the subject. Surely they have the credentials to do so, with a doctor degree within the field? Also, I have never met anyone with such an educational background; too boldly defend their “hypothesis” by stating they have a doctrine degree. I don’t ever remember questioning your logic, as you stated. Merely, questioning the intent of your post. Also, I have never known a Doctor to state they have a doctrine degree in any form or fashion without acknowledging the school and field. No matter what the circumstances may being, that’s like me saying, “I’m Johnathan, I have a Masters Degree”. To explain better, I don’t want another Planet Nibiru theory accumulating unless there’s evidence to support it. Or, I want to be enlightened with a new possibility that I find interesting and do some researching regarding it.

Next, I actually agree with your hypothesis. Let me go out of the record and state that. Never once did I state anything about de-bunking your hypothesis. I merely stated if you ever want your hypothesis to go anywhere you should accumulate more data. I also find it interesting that you stated, as I quote “you have no right to tell me how I should or should not post on this forum, or how much evidence I need or do not need. This is a discussion forum, and not a peer-reviewed scientific journal. I do not need evidence or proof in order to share my thoughts and hypothesis with other members, or to open up a topic for conversation.” Once again “Doctor”, I don’t remember stating anything regarding how you should post on this forum. I simply made a suggestion towards your “hypothesis” and then you quite frankly starting assuming the worst.

Next, why would you state something so irrational, phrasing between hypothesis and theory? Surely someone with a doctrine degree would know better? You are correct, what you stated was a hypothesis. But, I will phrase what you stated yourself already, this isn’t a scientific journal this is a discussion board. Regardless of the word, does it change the meaning of my post? I’m afraid it doesn’t, so would you like me to change the word “theory” to “hypothesis” for you? In this technical sense, the meaning is the same. Yes, you could get technical and state a hypothesis cannot be transformed into a theory, without enough researchers in there respected fields to form a theory. Also, a theory is single or multiple hypotheses studied and researched by multiple sources which aren’t disproven in any form or fashion. Including the fact of not being proven, but not being disproven as well. Let me remind you that most who study 2012 consider the planet nibiru a theory not a hypothesis. Why is this? Multiple sources who aren’t co-efficient or even respected in their fields agreed upon the “hypothesis”. So looking at this example, especially when you are discussing a field such as 2012, this which is a hypothesis in itself that word becomes shrewd and abused.

You state that you would like to have a debate. Let me go ahead and redirect you to Wikipedia, sense you so kindly directed me there. Look up the word debate and ask yourself is this a debate? Debating requires someone who is arguing different points. No one is doing such a thing; they are all stating their ideas regarding the subject. So in truth, the conclusion is you are actually looking for two things. A. Peoples thoughts upon your hypothesis. B. You’re looking for people to debate your theory, and yet you’re not? As you label “debunkers”, quoted from you “I consider debunkers to be people who are not interested in a real debate, but who are only interested in debunking any hypothesis that shows up on ATS without, in turn, providing one of their own”. So technically you are wrong with the phrasing, the difference being me mature, wise, educated enough to understand what you are implying. How does it feel for someone to make an interpretation for you? Let me also go ahead and state without any logical proof that, I might have been the one who formed and created all the current scares of 2012, regarding the new hot topic of solar storms. Why am I making such a statement? I wrote letters, to unnamed sources including making random posts like this one on internet forums. Later, a few weeks I find some unnamed sources making statements, followed by news sources forming and creating stories of their own leading to other “sources”. For example my post regarding 2012 solar storms, (www.abovetopsecret.com...), which technically has been transformed from my hypothesis into a theory. You see what happens when you bring up a “hypothesis” on the web, you unknowingly bring up an idea to the minds of hundreds, thousands, even millions. All it takes is one person in the right field, too agree with your hypothesis, re-direct it towards other sources and it magically transforms into a theory. So you unknowingly brought about a theory, from a hypothesis, funny how that works? So technically you are wrong in this sense as well. Sense I am labeled as a debunker, I have brought my own “hypothesis” to the board, being more scientific proficient actually it would be theory. Why is this? I’m including my own hypothesis mixed with scientific data published by researchers in there respectful fields, so I introduced it as a theory.

Once again “Doctor”, I’m very surprised that you wouldn’t know this already but let me correct you, quoted from you, “. What it is a statement of intent; a valid question looking to be answered. After research, if supporting evidence is found (and I can assure you there is much to be found)” Let me also re-phrase your statement, “A hypothesis is an answer to a question not being validated in any form or fashion. Also, it can be a valid question. After research upon the IF, with respected researchers within the field neither approving nor disproving the evidence.” You also state you want to bring this up to discussion, but then state that you don’t care if anyone believes you. Why would a Doctor make such a statement is my question. In truth you did your research, you presented your evidence, which I’m stating is lacking and you respond with an interesting comment. You’re contradicting yourself in multiple posts of your true intent. To give an analogy, that’s like someone buying all the ingredients with the intent of making a cake and not making the cake. On top of that you stated, quoted “As a scientist” later stated, “University that gave me my doctrine degree”, so I can only use this information to make my reference towards my analogy as you being like a chef. (Seeing how you didn’t specify anything beyond this) Someone respected in their field, which specializes in their field. Why would a chef do such a thing?

In conclusion, my own hypothesis is you are not a doctor of anything. If you are a Doctor of anything, then you are an unusual character, because you don’t fit the definition of a

Doctor. You could be a Doctor, but frankly I do not care if you are or not, but I will defend my posts if I am in the right. Lastly, once again if you want to have a honest and truthful debate like you stated then present your evidence and I will agree or disagree after researching.

Btw: I love when I present something and people debate against me. Especially, if they provide something that makes me really think. I’m surprised someone with a Doctor degree, especially one being technical as a scientist, that you wouldn’t share the same mindset.

[edit on 12-1-2009 by Johnathanrs]