Was the Jewish Faith Founded on a Drug?

Was Moses under the influence of a drug when he heard God speaking to him from the "burning bush"?

Moses spoke to God on a mountain in Edom, in what is now the Jordan Valley. A land that was later at war with the Orthodox Jewish faith yet seems to be a place where much of the religion later evolved from. The altar of Beth-el was founded here on the mountain of Jebel Madbah. This was possibly the first recorded Jewish place of worship. The reason why Israel and Judah went to war could well have been because of the relocation of this shrine to the Temple in Jerusalem.
The spring of Moses was also claimed to be near to this site.
It was also supposedly at this site where Aaron was placed when he died - there is a tomb there which is claimed to be his on the mountain of el-Barra.

www.atlastours.net...


When we look at the Bible we are also told that Moses died and was interred here too:

"And die in the mount wither thou goest up, and be gathered to thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in the mount." - Deuteronomy 32:50

"And when thou hast seen it, thou also shall be gathered unto thy people as Aaron was" - Numbers 27:13

Note that "gathered"means "taken away" in the original Hebrew
www.bju.edu...
This can be reasoned as meaning "to die".

We are told in the Bible that Moses was buried on either the same mountain or one very near to the one where he received the Commandments - Jebel Madbah.



We are then told that Moses spoke to God through a burning bush. The mountain of Jebel Madbah is sparsely vegetated. But there is one plant that does grow in abundance all over the Jordan Valley and this is the Thorn Apple. This is a highly hallucinagenic plant which could induce visions.

www.botanical-online.com...

The Hebrew words used for the Burning Bush are "mikvah seneh". This actually means "bush that burns". But not in the context of actually burning itself. If the bush was physically alight it would have been written "kiy seneh". "Mikvah seneh" means a bush that burns something else in the same sense as a stinging nettle burns when you brush against it. The sensation of eating the fruit of the Thorn Apple could be very much described as being akin to burning.

"And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and lo, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed....and God called out to him in the midst of the Bush" - Exodus 3:2

Was it possible that Moses had consumed the fruit of the Thorn Apple? Did this give him hallucinations and bring out the spirituality within him much as many fruits have done for many cultures and religions? We know that many people have used drugs to "get closer" to their Gods. Was Moses any different? Could the foundation of the Jewish faith be based on one man's experience with the Thorn Apple?

Thorn Apple.
(1.) Heb. hedek (Prov. 15:19), rendered "brier" in Micah 7:4. Some thorny plant, of the Solanum family, suitable for hedges. This is probably the so-called "apple of Sodom," which grows very abundantly in the Jordan valley. "It is a shrubby plant, from 3 to 5 feet high, with very branching stems, thickly clad with spines, like those of the English brier, with leaves very large and woolly on the under side, and thorny on the midriff."

It is interesting to note that this plant later became known as the "apple of Sodom". Could this also be the fruit consumed by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden?

You can pretty much sady that any religion was founded on a drug, or even a mild schizophrenic. As for the burning bush, it's been proven to be a natural phenomenon that occurs in specific areas. What it is exactly, is certain rocks falling, sparking and lighting dried up shrubs.

I once read about a mold that gets on grain that is similar in effect to '___' (no, don't discuss that stuff here).

What was amazing is that people had no idea at that time. There is a story I once read about a whole town in France going crazy in one day. People died, murders, looting, even animals went nuts...all due to this stuff baked into breads, etc...

Sure, I believe the Moses thing is possible.

[Edited on 19-3-2004 by ZeddicusZulZorander]

Either he was on drugs, or he was trippin'.

Originally posted by IKnowNothing
As for the burning bush, it's been proven to be a natural phenomenon that occurs in specific areas. What it is exactly, is certain rocks falling, sparking and lighting dried up shrubs.

That would mean that the bush physically burns itself. This is clearly not the case in the Biblical passage. As I stated before the Hebrew translation means that the bush burns others - not itself.
Interestingly, the only plants that grow around the Beth-el shrine are thorn apples. This would mean that Judaism and possibly the first alter to Yaweh was founded right next to them.
It would be rather like a new religion being founded in a crack house!!!

So i guess that means we can all make fun of native americans and any other culture's religion that uses chemicals to alter perception.

good deal!

I've altered my perception for years, and not once have I invented a ridiculous religion. Ok? Let's keep this in perspective.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I once read about a mold that gets on grain that is similar in effect to '___' (no, don't discuss that stuff here).

What was amazing is that people had no idea at that time. There is a story I once read about a whole town in France going crazy in one day. People died, murders, looting, even animals went nuts...all due to this stuff baked into breads, etc...

Sure, I believe the Moses thing is possible.

[Edited on 19-3-2004 by ZeddicusZulZorander]

What you are refering to is known as ergot poisioning.
This is also believed to be the cause of the Salem witch trials. Whole towns would go crazy for days and even longer, depending on how long they used the infected grain.

Ergot, caused by the fungus Claviceps purpurea, is a disease of cereal crops and grasses. The disease causes reduced yield and quality of grains and hay and also causes a livestock disease called ergotism, if infected grains or hay are fed. The disease cycle of the ergot fungus was first described in the 1800s, but the connection with ergot and epidemics among people and animals was known several hundred years earlier. Ergot's medicinal applications and animal poisoning properties first called attention to this plant disease. Human poisoning was common in Europe in the Middle Ages when ergoty rye bread was often consumed.


ERGOT

This paragraph says it all (Lysergic should like this one)

One of the most amazing stories about naturally-occurring alkaloids in fungi concerns ergot (Claviceps purpurea); a fungus that infects grains of rye and related grasses. One of the psychoactive components of ergot fungus is the alkaloid ergine (d-lysergic acid amide), better known as natural '___'. The more potent synthetic '___', (d-lysergic acid diethylamide), also known as '___' 25, is one of the most powerful psychoactive drugs known. '___' 25 was originally synthesized from natural psychoactive alkaloids in ergot. According to Lewis and Lewis (1977), it is 4,000 times more powerful than mescaline. Natural '___' (ergine) is also found in the seeds of two species of Mexican morning glory vines which are still ingested by native Indians in an important medicinal and religious ritual.

During the Middle Ages, tens of thousands of people in Europe were afflicted with ergotism, a malady characterized by gangrenous extremities, convulsions, madness and death. They ate rye bread infested with ergot fungus containing several peptide alkaloids of the ergotamine group (including ergotamine, ergosine and ergocristine) that affect blood vessels. Since they are potent vasoconstrictors, these alkaloids can cause gangrene if ingested in sufficient dosages. Known as "St. Anthony's Fire," ergotism was a dreaded disease in Europe. Between 990 and 1129, more than 50,000 people died of this disease in France. The disease became so devastating that in 1093 in southern France the people formed an order to take care of the afflicted, and they chose St. Anthony as their patron saint. One of the symptons of the disease was an intense burning sensation, hence the name St. Anthony's Fire. It wasn't until 1597 (500 years after the first epidemic of ergotism) that physicians finally associated this horrendous disease with the ergot on rye. Another form of ergot poisoning involves severe hallucinations and madness, caused by pschoactive alkaloids in the sclerotia.
www.entheology.org...

Now, this is deffinatly a possibility, although I dont agree with some of it I will post it anyway for refrence' sake:

The book Strange Fruit tells how Moses used the poisonous type of ergot to put the Egyptians out of commission -- an example of how knowledge of psychedelics can be turned into political power. God's word told the Jewish priests to always put ergot bread on public display in the temple, but the priests moved it into the restricted secret zone -- the Holy of Holies, taboo and off limits to all but the inner circle (Merkur). Jesus however wanted everyone to access the Holy bread, rather than restricting the people to the Common bread/loaves (Thiering). Taking this a bit furthur, it even suggests that Jesus' real complaint in the temple courtyard was that the priests were selling ergot, and at exorbitant prices, and only to a very select few. That way, the poor could never afford to buy a hit of ergot to experience ego death, unity consciousness, and heaven-on-earth. But Jesus gave them ergot for free, so that they could experience ego death, and the priests -- who had a thriving business -- were infuriated and seriously threatened, and had to get him out of the way to preserve their artificial scarcity. Then the miraculous healings were actually healings of the illusory split between self and world, and Jesus gave them religion meaning re-connection of the separate-self-sense with the world.

The conspiracy activists should assume that like the temple priests, the prohibitionist leaders actually are heavy drug users and their real goal is to gain power through The acid-rock group Rush, in the album 2112, complains about the priests controlling everything and controlling consciousness and forbidding psychedelics. However, the real problem with the priests is that
they hoard ergot technology all to themselves and won't let the public have it -- so that the starving public then can be strung along on lies and false promises of delayed fulfillment and empty assurances to give a feeble sense of reconciliation of self and reality, while seeking that which they really thirst for, while being robbed by the manipulative priests, like televangelists with a cache of psychedelics who use psychedelics just to think of more ways to fleece the flock
www.bluehoney.org...

www.alienangels.hu..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

Answer to the original question...

NO, beacuse Moses didn't found the Jewish faith.

Amazing the stories that people can write around suppositions.

Yeah, wasn't it Abraham. I believe Christians, The Jewish, and the Muslims all trace back to Abraham. Who was willing to sacrifice his son for God!

TUT

Originally posted by Netchicken
Answer to the original question...

NO, beacuse Moses didn't found the Jewish faith.

Amazing the stories that people can write around suppositions.

Possibly if we aren't talking about the biblical version but otherwise I disagree. Before Moses went up to the mountain the people were Hebrews. They needed the Law of God to make their faith a solid structure. The Ten Commandments were what defined their faith and made them Jews.
Before that time God had only spoken to individual people such as Abraham - evidence tells us that most of the Hebrews before Moses time didn't just worship the one diety. It took Moses to bring them together with the Commandments. After Moses came down from the mountain God spoke to their whole race and not just individuals and they all began to follow Yaweh.