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reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 10:05 AM by Azurus
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reply to post by Heike
Good post. I agree with you fully, and I think you brought up some excellent points. As disturbing as the photo is, without much evidence linking to
what, where, and who and why, it's nothing more than speculation that will probably do more harm than good.
Unfortunately I have seen this picture and many like it during my time serving with the MP unit who was responsible for the security of Camp Ashraf
Iraq. Camp Ashraf housed, and I think still does, the Peoples Mujahideen of Iran, a terrorist organization that used to work for Saddam Hussein. Their
officially stated goal is to remove the current government in Iran and to replace it with an Islamo/Marxist style government. The US Military is
responsible for keeping the thousands of PMOI members under "house arrest" on Camp Ashraf, while simultaneously protecting them from outside parties
in Iraq that wish to do them harm. Members of the PMOI defect from the organization, as it is extremely cult like and strict, and must go to the US
element on the camp to ask to defect. Unfortunately, the US is not able to let them leave the camp as the Iraqi Government will not let them live in
Iraq. This causes the US to keep them in a detention facility...as they cannot leave the camp. The defectors get tired of being stuck in the camp and
often stage scenes like this as a way to protest the US not releasing them from Camp Ashraf. Bottom line: the wounds were self inflicted by the
detainee (an Iranian/persian ethnicity) and were meant to act as a sign of protest to the MP guards and other detainees in the camp. The MPs have to
take official photographs of the incident and conduct an investigation to ensure that no US persons were involved and that there was no evidence of
abuse. The photo is from 2004, I forget which date it was originally taken; it is of a PMOI defector in US custody; and the wounds were self inflicted
by the detainee (to sew the mouth shut sybolizing his lack of voice over his current state as a detainee).
[edit on 24-7-2008 by Azurus]
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reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 11:07 AM by Maxmars
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Originally posted by MrPenny
Because it says it....doesn't make it so...the photo doesn't even show his torso. How can that be stated truthfully without showing his entire
torso in a sleeveless garment? Could they have said his arms and legs were amputated just to spite him, and you would buy that also?
I agree. I am not inclined to infer anything other than what was stated by the source. As to whether it is true has yet to be seen. It begs the
question, is there more proof or evidence forthcoming?
It's been know to be used as an orthopedic technique before...  Since the artery to the skin graft has to be maintained until the graft is healed my lips were sewn shut this time as well as my jaw being wired
shut. I had a small corner of my mouth where I breathed and took liquids it. I had my mouth like that for about 4 months this time.
Source
Then I stand corrected. However, you have to agree, the idea of sewing someones mouth shut as part of an 'interrogation' technique is at best
ridiculous!
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reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 01:28 PM by deltaboy
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reply to post by LoneGunMan
Then you should not be complaining about torturing them for killing American troops and civilians would you?
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reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 01:30 PM by deltaboy
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I can post a video of an Iraqi police officer being beheaded for working with the American forces and the new Iraqi govt. I'm sure you love to see
this Iraqi police officer beheaded because he did all what you mentioned. I still have the link...
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reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 02:04 PM by mental modulator
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reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 02:16 PM by mental modulator
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Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by LoneGunMan
Then you should not be complaining about torturing them for killing American troops and civilians would you?
Hey Deltaboy,,, we are fighting soulless animals -- How can we maintain the argument that we are the just, right and morally superior if we behave
like the animals we extinguish?
If our boys do some things that are less then "good"... well thats the way of war!
Nothing new - It brings out the best and worst in mankind everytime.
But when the fat lard ass politicians start to encourage this and lower the standards of the US - well thats the point when I get angry!
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reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 02:30 PM by ice1300
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In the military we have always been a system of checks and balances. Is it perfect? nope, but nothing is perfect. The system does for the most part
work. Abu Ghraib was a horrible atrocity and those that were involved (well most of them) were punished for their part in it. I know that bad things
happen to good people in war (on both sides). Torture is not the best solution it never has been and never will be.
That is not a political statement; it's a moral one. And it has been a cherished value of all civilized nations, regardless of political color or
creed, since the first Geneva Convention was signed in 1864. Respect for human rights and abhorrence of suffering is neither a liberal idea nor a
conservative one, neither Republican nor Democrat. Both sides of the American political divide understand the undeniable moral constant.
Torture is wrong. And so are those who accuse other of being false tortures
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reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 03:27 PM by Maxmars
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reply to post by spookjr
The information on this photo is less than acceptable to me (c-val), I suspect it could have been a disinformation leak, or perhaps not. I certainly
haven't the expertise to analyze the photograph itself with any kind of authority.
I hold that WHATEVER this is, it is NOT the work of any US military personnel. I would have to hear a personal confession to believe that one. I am
also former military and well-traveled enough to know this is not something we do.
But I have to admit, I would have said the same of Abu Grahib, if I hadn't seen the photographic evidence. But then, there really wasn't mutilation
going on their, only dehumanizing humiliation and intimidation tactics - to what end we may never know.
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reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 05:51 PM by Nola213
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The one think that makes this picture seem like BS to me is, in the 2nd picture, where they highlight the "odd" thinks in the image, why do they
make it a point to highlight a grain of sand on his upper right chest, and another spec of dirt on his right shoulder?
It's like they're pumping up, and exagerrating the signs of torture done to this man.
No one knows who this guy is, where the pic was taken, who took the pic, and what were the details surrounding the pic.
So all in all, this thread really has no substance as there is no hard facts here at all.
Your all arguing over a picture that has cannot be traced to where, when it was taken, and whether it is even torture or not, we don't know who the
guy is, and we don't even know who tok the picture.
Photos like this are what they call "propaganda".
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reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 03:28 AM by muzzleflash
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Ya just like all those Nazi's in WW2 were raised on Video games and violent movies....oh they didnt have video games back then??? 
well maybe it was the mongolian golden horde, u know the Khans used to force video games and movies down their kids throats to get them all
brutal...oh wait...
maybe it was the romans then, or the USSR, i forgot who it was...
hmmm, maybe your wrong about your assumptions.
And this has nothing to do with video games or movies "desensitize".
I guess i just debunked your arguement pretty good huh? 
[edit on 25-7-2008 by muzzleflash]
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reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 10:35 AM by 2991brownj
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torture in the US inst new at all. my g-pa was high in the govt and tey did much worse things to people such as russians or italians to get info out
of them then theyd waste em
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reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 11:07 AM by Ian McLean
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Originally posted by Nola213
The one think that makes this picture seem like BS to me is, in the 2nd picture, where they highlight the "odd" thinks in the image, why do they
make it a point to highlight a grain of sand on his upper right chest, and another spec of dirt on his right shoulder?
There's speculation that that's salt -- see it smeared and clumped on the side of his face? It could be sand, though -- if it were, simply from a
scuffle perhaps, I'd expect it to be more widespread.
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reply posted on 27-7-2008 @ 05:07 PM by mf_luder
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reply to post by Maxmars
I personally supervise a team of three interrogators and some other personnel and I can assure you - we do not use these types of things in our
interrogations. If you are looking at that picture know that it is at the very least NOT the US Military doing it.
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reply posted on 27-7-2008 @ 05:29 PM by OldMedic
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Much more likely the "photograph" came from somebody that hates America's computer.
Sorry, but that kind of stuff is not done in real life. And only the most stupid and most rabid America haters would believe in it, or spread that
kind of stuff.
Oh well, the depths that they will stoop to never really surprises me.
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reply posted on 27-7-2008 @ 06:24 PM by CharlesMartel
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The alleged metadata does not exist in the photo that was posted, because the file was edited by an Adobe product.
Don't take my word for it. Download the file and view a hex dump of the file and you will see that the embedded date, time, and camera manufacturer
data are missing, but you will see "Adobe."
Which raises the question: Where they knowingly spreading enemy propaganda?
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reply posted on 28-7-2008 @ 07:11 AM by Azurus
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Did you all not read the description on the Wikileaks site? I posted it in a previous post above.
This prisoner did this to himself in a form of protest symbolizing his feelings of not being able to speak out. He sewed his mouth and locked his
mouth closed, and also went on a hunger strike.
The interrogation/torture methods used by the U.S. would never reach this form of sadistic mutilation.
[edit on 28-7-2008 by Azurus]
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