The 9-11 Whitewash

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Cool Hand, NORAD's SOP in the case of an off-course airplane isn't classified.

No, but the ROE's are.

I totally agree with you east coast kid. It's totally a lost cause. We people as a whole SHOULD KNOW what happend that day and what the u.s government could of done to prevent it. You know damn well those stray airliners were picked up by NORAD and what did they do about it? Not a damn thing. The government should come forward and spill some answers to the american public. I've always known there was much,much more behind those attacks.

Originally posted by Jeffrey
I totally agree with you east coast kid. It's totally a lost cause. We people as a whole SHOULD KNOW what happend that day and what the u.s government could of done to prevent it. You know damn well those stray airliners were picked up by NORAD and what did they do about it? Not a damn thing. The government should come forward and spill some answers to the american public. I've always known there was much,much more behind those attacks.

You gotta be shi*ting me. Aren't you the guy who is so proud that he is going into the AF? Aren't they the main component of NORAD? Are you saying that you do not believe that your AF did anything when those airliners were flying around?

I think that the AF is making a big mistake taking someone in who is basically trash talking them before even spending a single day amonst them.

Ironic again ECK, that you fail to mention or criticize Clinton and Gore, who, BTW, are going to be questioned by the 9/11 Commission, and will not be under oath as well?

"Clinton, Gore Set to Face 9/11 Commission"
www.mercurynews.com...

In all your digging through those disinformation sites, as in anti-Bush, anti-war, etc., did anyone or you happen to run across this?

"The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, otherwise known as the 9-11 Commission, is an "independent, bipartisan commission created by congressional legislation and the signature of President George W. Bush in late 2002, is chartered to prepare for the President and Congress a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including preparedness for and the immediate response to the attacks. The Commission is also mandated to provide recommendations designed to guard against future attacks."

Interestingly, some of the comission members are also witnesses that the comission has called. Commission member Jamie S. Gorelick, who served in the William Jefferson Clinton Justice Department, has testified before the commission. Philip D. Zelikow, executive director of the commission, has given testimony about national security issues before the commission. Zelikow's ties to George Walker Bush's national security advisor Condoleezza Rice and other Bush administration officials raise serious questions about the objectivity of the commission. 1"
www.disinfopedia.org...


IMHO, seems that both Clinton and Bush have a vested interest in keeping "alot" of knowledge and information squashed? Personally, Clinton more so than Bush.

Clinton�s own admission that he could have extradited Osama bin Laden from Sudan - but he didn�t because he felt bin Laden was not a threat! A senior CIA officer goes on record to reveal that Bill Clinton helped Saddam Hussein by allowing him to illegally sell oil - and make billions to stay in power. Clinton adviser Dick Morris says that Clinton was warned about the terrorist bombings against American troops at the Khobar Towers, and he ignored the warning!

The FBI and CIA could have easily foiled the 9/11 attacks, but were negligent as two known terrorists gained entry into the U.S. with the CIA�s full knowledge. They would later participate in the 9/11 attacks.

FBI agent Coleen Rowley says the FBI could have prevented 9/11, but refused to get a search warrant on one of the 9/11 terrorists.

In such, NewsMax broke the story that Bill Clinton tied the hands of the CIA and FBI - agents reported from the inside what really happened.

Bill Clinton refused to require driver�s licenses to expire at the time of expiring visas. If he had done this, one of the 9/11 terrorists would have been arrested or deported. The 1996 Clinton-Gore airline safety commission set the stage for 9/11. Clinton�s adviser Dick Morris says Bill Clinton�s affair with Monica Lewinsky helped Osama bin Laden survive and plot 9/11. Clinton�s shocking statements about America�s guilt in 9/11. He even blamed America for 9/11 and then cited our treatment of the Indians and Muslims during the Crusades...!?

Also, a secret 1994 terrorism report warned of suicidal hijackings, and Bill Clinton ignored it.

In the late 1990s, U.S. authorities identified Mahfouz as a major financier of bin Laden's , his brother-in-law's, extracurricular activities. Of course Mahfouz denied it and the Saudis put him on ice, charging him with bank fraud. He's now under supposed house arrest , or rather, "palatial mansion arrest," but nonetheless, still wheeling and dealing with Kean and Delta Oil. Kean is a director of Amerada Hess, an oil giant, married up to Saudi Arabia's Delta Oil in a venture to pump that controversial "blood oil/black gold" in Azerbaijan.

More? Here...this on those in 9/11, namely Keen and such:

"Debate: The 9/11 Commission"
www.daytoncitypaper.com...

Strange how many claim to be objective on this matter and yet only provide and spin one side of that "bloody" Silver Spoon, eh ECK? Don't let your anger obscure being objective.



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 3-3-2004 by Seekerof]

Thanks for all that info, Seekerof.

I have a question for this thread:
Okay, let's say everybody fesses up. Then what? How does this help the country, or what is left of it?
Does it help us to find out who pulls the strings of Bush, Cheney, Rice, Clinton, et al??

We now know that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor, to get us in the war that was planned to be.
Truman dropped the bombs, even though Japan had already surrender.
Our govt has a long hisory of already knowing, I'd say.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by Jeffrey
I totally agree with you east coast kid. It's totally a lost cause. We people as a whole SHOULD KNOW what happend that day and what the u.s government could of done to prevent it. You know damn well those stray airliners were picked up by NORAD and what did they do about it? Not a damn thing. The government should come forward and spill some answers to the american public. I've always known there was much,much more behind those attacks.

You gotta be shi*ting me. Aren't you the guy who is so proud that he is going into the AF? Aren't they the main component of NORAD? Are you saying that you do not believe that your AF did anything when those airliners were flying around?

I think that the AF is making a big mistake taking someone in who is basically trash talking them before even spending a single day amonst them.

Cool Hand, I suggest you go read the Bill of Rights. According to the first Ammendment, until Jeffrey is sworn in, he has every right to voice his opinion. That 'you can only say what I agree with' mentality belongs back in Nazi Germany.

Seekerof,
If you've read many of my previous statements regarding Clinton, I have never had anything favorable to say about him and what he was involved in. He's thick as theives with the Bush syndicate. And you take that to the bank. (See: Terry Reid's "Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA to understand how much so.)

Clinton's turning a blinde eye to Osama allowed the plot to go ahead. And you're right. Clinton did have plenty of opportunity to capture him.

The thing most disgusting thing to me about Clinton is that he is the ultimate political whore. There's nothing he wouldn't do for power and privelege. And that whole Monica Lewinski thing was the least of his impeachable offenses. He lied under oath and that was the only thing they could legitimately persue.

Having said that, though, it doesn't absolve Bush in least. His cronies are up to their eyeballs in what went down on 9-11. Whether Bush himself knew what was going on is debateable. Dick Cheney damn sure did, though.

As for Cool Hand's comments regarding NORAD: I'll help you out.





On October 26, 1999, the famous golfer Payne Stewart boarded a private Learjet in Florida and left for Texas. Shortly after takeoff, Stewart's jet veered sharply off course and began heading northwest. All contact with air controllers was lost. Within 15 minutes of having gone off course, US fighter jets had already intercepted the jet. Everyone on board was likely dead due to depressurization. These fighter jets were dispatched by NORAD, the branch of the US air force whose job it is to monitor and defend US airspace 24 hours a day. NORAD maintains a huge array of land based radar systems and has fighter jets on alert 24 hours a day so that they can respond to a crisis. The jets escorted the doomed airplane until another group of Air National Guard jets took over the escort mission. Finally, Stewart's jet ran out of fuel a crashed in South Dakota. The quick reaction time and military precision with which NORAD intercepted and escorted Stewart's jet was impressive, and exactly what one would have expected from the greatest military power in world history. (86)
www.jihadunspun.net... stf09.html


THIS IS A BIG, BIG, LIE, plain and simple.

For example: remember two years ago, when golf pro Payne Stewart's small
PRIVATE Lear jet went off-course and out of communication just after
takeoff in Florida?

Within MINUTES, on an immediate alert from the FAA, U.S. Air Force and
Air Guard jets were scrambled to intercept Stewart's jet and see what
the heck was up (not that it helped much in that case...): "Several Air
Force and Air National Guard fighter jets, plus an AWACS radar control
plane, helped the Federal Aviation Administration track the runaway
Learjet and estimate when it would run out of fuel." --CNN, 10.26.99

propagandamatrix.com... mmediately_af_prevented_from_responding.html

This is an excellent archive on 9-11, btw:
propagandamatrix.com...



NORAD Stand-Down
The Prevention of Interceptions of the Commandeered Planes
It is standard operating procedure (SOP) to scramble jet fighters whenever a jetliner goes off course or radio contact with it is lost. Between September 2000 and June 2001, fighters were scrambled 67 times. 1
911research.wtc7.net...



These are just a few of many articles on this.


[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

It's funny how someone like Martha Stewart gets taken to court and it's covered all over the media when she 'might' have known something about her stocks, yet the 3 most powerful people in the country, who DID know something, will never have to testify. Something's gotta change!

These are just a few of many articles on this.

I have trouble accepting those as objective sources that you can take as the truth.

Also, look at where Stewart's A/C was in relation to the bases where the fighters took off from. It was a much shorter distance for them to fly.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Are you saying that you do not believe that your AF did anything when those airliners were flying around?

Can you prove otherwise?

Originally posted by COOL HAND
I think that the AF is making a big mistake taking someone in who is basically trash talking them before even spending a single day amonst them.

I think the USAF should be proud to take in someone with integrity (Jeffrey ).

Let's not be foolish, people. US defenses should have been prepared for these attacks, yet four *supposed* aircraft made their unwanted entrance into buildings (WTC & Pentagon :shk: ) and one into the ground. They were not simultaneous events and happened within an hour timeframe. The Pentagon was the last building struck. How is this possible? Apparently with great ease.



[Edited on 3/4/2004 by Bangin]

Originally posted by Bangin

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Are you saying that you do not believe that your AF did anything when those airliners were flying around?

Can you prove otherwise?

Yes, just look at an objective news source (cnn) and they will show you the timeline where you can see how the AF tried to get jets in place, but could not due to time and distance.

I think the USAF should be proud to take in someone with integrity (Jeffrey

).

I don't. If he questions it so much, then why is he joining them. That is my point. BTW I know for a fact the integrity has its place in the military, but Jeffrey has yet to show any evidence of his integrity.

Let's not be foolish, people. US defenses should have been prepared for these attacks, yet four *supposed* aircraft made their unwanted entrance into buildings (WTC & Pentagon :shk: ) and one into the ground. They were not simultaneous events and happened within an hour timeframe. The Pentagon was the last building struck. How is this possible? Apparently with great ease.

Should the defenses have been prepared, yes. The whole point of having the armed forces is to protect the US and her citizens. Obviously we failed that day, but we did all that we could. We cannot erase what happened, but I am sick and tired of people blaming the military for not doing enough that day.

Those who refuse to acknowledge the fact that NORAD clearly stood down on 9-11 are in complete denial, plain and simple.

Jeffrey, I applaud you for being capable of independent thought. Get ready for complete group-think in the Air Force. That might be kind of hard for you to deal with. Luckily for me, I pretty much found my brain in the last year before my ETS. Being in was good in many ways, though. For example, I know how the military/US ARMY/XVIII Airborne Corp. operates. That's an invaluable experience. I wish you the best of luck.

Where is all this evidence? I have been searching for it since this discussion started, and I have yet to find anything. Are we to be led to believe that NORAD took a day off?

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by COOL HAND]

the fighters were well late , plus in the dc attack they came from the wrong place, i agree with east coast kid .
Unfortunately the truth will never come out because it is too shocking.
The job was too big to leave such a small "signature" there aint a court in the world that would convict bin laden on evidence supplied
it has to be state sponsored im afraid, just look at what has happened since 9/11; does it benefit the patsy bin laden or the US administration?
Remember the plans for war in afghanistan were well advanced before 9/11 also the patriot act was already written prior to 9/11.
All that was needed was to sway public opinion, WTC was the trump card
Bin laden is the media demon created to centralise control to fewer and fewer people. I shudder to think what is next so they can tighten there grip on the populace even further.
Do not focus on dubya hes just the stupid front man being dictated to himself, he is expendable, the real power lies behind the throne and the people behind the throne have been in power in one job or another pre nixon times

Originally posted by XFactor
the fighters were well late , plus in the dc attack they came from the wrong place, i agree with east coast kid .
Unfortunately the truth will never come out because it is too shocking.
The job was too big to leave such a small "signature" there aint a court in the world that would convict bin laden on evidence supplied
it has to be state sponsored im afraid, just look at what has happened since 9/11; does it benefit the patsy bin laden or the US administration?
Remember the plans for war in afghanistan were well advanced before 9/11 also the patriot act was already written prior to 9/11.
All that was needed was to sway public opinion, WTC was the trump card
Bin laden is the media demon created to centralise control to fewer and fewer people. I shudder to think what is next so they can tighten there grip on the populace even further.
Do not focus on dubya hes just the stupid front man being dictated to himself, he is expendable, the real power lies behind the throne and the people behind the throne have been in power in one job or another pre nixon times

Well stated, XFactor.

Cool Hand, if you're interested in learning the truth concerning 9-11, a good resource on the web is www.copvcia.com (From the Wilderness). The information is extensive and rock solid.

Cool Hand, if you're interested in learning the truth concerning 9-11, a good resource on the web is www.copvcia.com (From the Wilderness). The information is extensive and rock solid.

You expect me to beleive that load of crap? Where is the objective information? All I read was a lot of speculation put forth by a lot of people who have no idea how the military responds to stuff like that.

Show me concrete OBJECTIVE facts, and I will more that happy to read them. Stop being like everyone else and pointing people to subjective facts that are written by people with no experience.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Cool Hand, if you're interested in learning the truth concerning 9-11, a good resource on the web is www.copvcia.com (From the Wilderness). The information is extensive and rock solid.

You expect me to beleive that load of crap? Where is the objective information? All I read was a lot of speculation put forth by a lot of people who have no idea how the military responds to stuff like that.

Show me concrete OBJECTIVE facts, and I will more that happy to read them. Stop being like everyone else and pointing people to subjective facts that are written by people with no experience.

I tried to offer you some insight. My bad. But Your willful ignorance is profound. It's pretty sad.

I tried to offer you some insight. My bad. But Your willful ignorance is profound. It's pretty sad.

How is it sad? I am just asking you to prove your point. You can do that, right? Personally I do not think that you can, that is why you are trying to dodge the issue.

If everyone in this thread could just take a deep breath and try being more considerate I would certainly appreciate it, and maybe you would appreciate the responses you get as well.

Consider this a mass notice.

ECK,
I am willing to accept your point if you could do me a small favor. Find out the status of all the A/C that were close to the scenes at the time. To make it easy we will set a limit of 200 nm from each point.

I want to know:
A/C status
Weapons Status
Pilot Status
Availability of Weapons

That should put the issue to rest. I mean, if the A/C were fueled, armed, and ready then there is no excuse. If not, then it would have taken them time to get so.

I challenge anyone else here to find objective information on those A/C at the time and I am willing to concede defeat to you.

Originally posted by XFactor
the fighters were well late , plus in the dc attack they came from the wrong place, i agree with east coast kid .
Unfortunately the truth will never come out because it is too shocking.
The job was too big to leave such a small "signature" there aint a court in the world that would convict bin laden on evidence supplied
it has to be state sponsored im afraid, just look at what has happened since 9/11; does it benefit the patsy bin laden or the US administration?
Remember the plans for war in afghanistan were well advanced before 9/11 also the patriot act was already written prior to 9/11.
All that was needed was to sway public opinion, WTC was the trump card
Bin laden is the media demon created to centralise control to fewer and fewer people. I shudder to think what is next so they can tighten there grip on the populace even further.
Do not focus on dubya hes just the stupid front man being dictated to himself, he is expendable, the real power lies behind the throne and the people behind the throne have been in power in one job or another pre nixon times

Yep. The Air Force was TOLD to take the morning off.
I agree completely up to the last paragraph. He is their man, allright. It was decided he was to be the one in powere when 9/11 happened!
There are many others like him holding key positions. Just as there will be for 2006-2008, whoever THEY decide will be in power as our President. This goes further back than Nixon, back to the Founding Fathers.