Congress passes legislation recognizing the importance of Christianity and Christmas

reply to post by marg6043


I think it is a step in the right direction. I am tired of apologizing for believing in Christmas. Last year at work (I greet customers at the door) we were told not to say, "Merry Christmas" for fear it would offend non christians; but to say something like, "Happy Holidays." I am glad I can wish any and all a Merry Christmas.

And the fact is, I am a Hindu. I embrace all religions as different paths to the same goal - God Realization. But I was raised in America and I love Christmas. It is a spirit of giving, and thinking of others. It is also time for "Peace on Earth. Good will toward men." Who could object to that?

The Surpeme Court ruled in Van Orden v. Perry that the establishment clause does not prohibit the state's recognition of religion - any religion - that has played a historical role in the nation.

THATS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, you say! No, they gave themselves the power to interpret and review the constitution in Marbury v. Madison.

Of course, I hope everyone realizes that even IF there were no judicial review, in this case it wouldn't matter - this is a resolution. The establishment clause only says congress shall make no _law_ respecting the establishment of religion. Resolutions do not have the force of law.

There is nothing unconstitutional about this at all.

[edit on 12-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

Seem a bit like go out in shop and prepare for the good christian soldiers vs the evil muslims or athists like in the glorious 50's where god fearing men had to build bunkers and pray to god that nukes would fall.

Boy, here we go again!

Aren't you people getting tired of bashing Christians all the time?

Is this really ruining your day that much?

Do Christians keep you from your job or from living your lives?

Are there terrible children at your local middle school that want to form an evil prayer group?

Last time I checked this nation was founded on Christianity and from what I understand Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Christ.

Yea, lets just keep pushing Christians out and watch as we turn into Europe. No Faith, no morality, push the envelope and watch it crumble. Maybe someday we can have riots in the streets every 3 or 4 months like those "exuberant youths" in Paris.

I can't believe that Christians have had that much of a negative impact on each of your lives that you can't leave anything alone.

Maybe they did it because it's the right thing to do.

I think we should just eliminate the word Christmas altogether and just make it the holiday season of lets get drunk and party cause we get a 4 day weekend! I wonder how many of you would be complaining about that?

reply to post by maryjenkins


Don't get me wrong I love the holidays just like anybody else, or (most people).

I don't believe in organize religion and see Christianity as a myth and the bible as a nice book full of folklore.

But I question the whole issue of proclaiming Christianity as to number one religion over other believes because our own congress feels like is their duty to do so.

That bothers me, because it opens the door to more stupid and silly legislation to push some groups agendas.

Maybe this is intentional inflammation. A nice push to really ramp up the Holy War and strip us of our freedoms. What better way to piss off all those terr'ists demanding we all convert to Islam than give them a great big cross-shaped middle finger?

reply to post by Yarcofin


Actually many people that claim to be Christians actually do not worship Christianity or belong to any Christan church.

They just claim to be christians.

Originally posted by marg6043But I question the whole issue of proclaiming Christianity as to number one religion over other believes because our own congress feels like is their duty to do so.

That bothers me, because it opens the door to more stupid and silly legislation to push some groups agendas.

I fail to see a problem with a resolution which declares that demographically christianity is the most populated religion. I assure you, the congressional research service does not just make this stuff up. Even if they did, I fail to see why it is so upsetting - it is a resolution, it means nothing and has no force of law, and just says "We, the people who voted yes, agree with this statement."

The slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy.

Regarding people who "claim" to be Christians - who cares? And exactly who is it that gets to decide when you are "Christian enough" to call yourself Christian?

[edit on 12-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

Originally posted by marg6043

I don't believe in organize religion and see Christianity as a myth and the bible as a nice book full of folklore.

Why are you trying to push your beliefs on others? Isn’t that the main complaint against Christianity, that Christians try to push their belief on others?

I smell just a little hypocrisy.

I didn't read any attempt at conversion in that statement.
Merely an effort, in her fashion (), to provide a frame of reference for properly interpreting the perspective.

Saying "I believe blah" doesn't really equate to "I believe blah and so should you."

[edit on 12-12-2007 by apc]

Originally posted by apc
Saying "I believe blah" doesn't really equate to "I believe blah and so should you."

You dont have to say "so should you."

She said congress should do things differently to be more in line with her beliefs. She may or may not want us to believe as she does, however she stated that she wants us, and congress, to behave in a manner that better falls in line with her beliefs which is, as I said, the major gripe against Christianity.

Originally posted by jbondo
Last time I checked this nation was founded on Christianity

/sigh

There goes that broken record again, skip skip skip. If the US was founded on Christianity last time you checked, it probably means you've never checked. Maybe now would be a good time to go ahead and do that?

You know what annoys the crap out of me?

I have a sneaking suspicion that this was done to promote shopping as a way to bump up the flagging economy.

It's revolted me for some time that so much commercial emphasis is placed on Christmas. Most people don't understand that Christmas sales are THE factor for almost all retail. The importance of Christmas is so huge that it outshines the entire rest of the year.

Talk about worshiping False Gods and taking the Lord's Name in Vain!
Christmas is a celebration unto the all powerful Lord Mammon (money, to the layman) and Christ is exploited as the advertising front man.

This "Christmas is important because your government says so" crap stinks to me of a ploy to get more people to buy junk that no-body needs for people they don't care about.

And don't get me started on the Pagan aspects of Christmas and the fact that it has very little to do with Christianity at all!

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Talk about worshiping False Gods and taking the Lord's Name in Vain!
Christmas is a celebration unto the all powerful Lord Mammon (money, to the layman) and Christ is exploited as the advertising front man.

AMEN!

Christmas is not compatible with Christianity.

Hell, the Bible specifically says to not cut a tree from the forest and bring it into your house and decorate it.

reply to post by cavscout


Would now be a good time to mention that I'm more Pagan than anything in my spiritual beliefs and that when asked, I'll often describe myself as being Neo-Druidic?

Prolly not. :p

I personally find the tree-worship highly amusing as all these Christians pay homage to what they normally condemn. It's even better when there's a good 'ol fashion pentacle (5 pointed star, which has nothing to do with the devil, but is rather an ancient sign of "the goddess") sitting on top of that tree.

Irony is beautiful.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
reply to post by cavscout

 

Would now be a good time to mention that I'm more Pagan than anything in my spiritual beliefs and that when asked, I'll often describe myself as being Neo-Druidic?

Prolly not. :p

I personally find the tree-worship highly amusing as all these Christians pay homage to what they normally condemn. It's even better when there's a good 'ol fashion pentacle (5 pointed star, which has nothing to do with the devil, but is rather an ancient sign of "the goddess") sitting on top of that tree.

Irony is beautiful.

Now mind you, this is a little "uneducated" of me, but Pagans, don't they believe that trees have spirits? Aren't Druids and all that like the ultimate Green-Peacers, in that they believe everything in nature has some kind of spirit attached to it? Then indeed, I find it funny that as Christians we go out and cut down a tree and bring it in to the house to suffer a slow death sitting in a pot of water while we decorate it with weighty ornaments to weaken the branches and as a finale, place a star on top of it like a silly hat to demean the spirit that dwells in the tree.
I wouldn't say Christians are ignorant to the meaning really. Even if they are, it seems like they are thumbing their noses at the Pagans by "torturing" a poor little tree and discarding it like refuse the days after Christmas. Personally, I find it ridiculous to worship trees.

Back to on topic: Who cares? As previously stated by someone else, is it hurting you? Congress passing a resolution is no different than a bison passing gas; especially THIS Congress!

And this affects Canada------how?

[edit on 13-12-2007 by CreeWolf]

reply to post by CreeWolf


Yup, defiantly uneducated of you.


I'm not going to attempt to define Pagan spiritual beliefs (as one major aspect is that it's largely different from one person to the next), but to me the idea of a "tree spirit" is more in keeping with "the form of the tree". The idea that the tree represents a part of the natural order.

The Pagan practice of decorating trees actually kept them outside, rooted, and alive. Evergreens were selected because they remain green and alive during winter, the season of death. Thus they symbolize eternal life. Winter was the season of death, not just because plants died and the ground hardened, but because if things didn't work out right you were screwed and faced starvation.

Yuletide was about celebrating life in the depths of the season of death. Appreciating what you have, enjoying your family and friends, and saying "screw it" and indulging yourself at a time when things were perty damned bleak.

I find that much less silly than running around buying useless crap for people as a way to validate yourself.

Or, for that matter, some of the things the Cree worshiped.

Edit:
As for what the topic matters to Canada, not much.
It does, however sicken me every time the holiday is abused for the purpose of profiteering and I failed to notice a "Americans only" sign on the thread.

[edit on 13-12-2007 by BitRaiser]

reply to post by BitRaiser

Originally posted by BitRaiserThe Pagan practice of decorating trees actually kept them outside, rooted, and alive. Evergreens were selected because they remain green and alive during winter, the season of death. Thus they symbolize eternal life. Winter was the season of death, not just because plants died and the ground hardened, but because if things didn't work out right you were screwed and faced starvation.

Yuletide was about celebrating life in the depths of the season of death. Appreciating what you have, enjoying your family and friends, and saying "screw it" and indulging yourself at a time when things were perty damned bleak.

Precisely why I find it funny. Christians torturing those poor trees in the comforts of their hearth indoors while the Pagans are outside dancing around a tree in their sheep-skin chaps in the cold of winter. Which sounds smarter?

I agree, I don't like where the Christmas holiday has come to. WAY too commercialized and I agree with the previous point you made about this concerning Congress. I find it ridiculous I have to buy my kids an XBOX360 with games rather than a simple home-made cheap gift in keeping with the tradition.

As for Cree beliefs, I don't know. I've never practiced them. I don't even pretend to know them. I wouldn't think they involve dancing around a tree naked wearing only chaps in the cold of winter though. My ancestors probably just stayed indoors and warmed themselves by a fire while chewing on a caribou leg.

reply to post by CreeWolf


You should probably take some time to learn about he beliefs of your ancestors if you are going to fly the "proud native" flag. Despite my jab, they had some very interesting traditions. If you don't know the traditions... well, you don't know the people.

It was actually a Shaman that got me thinking about my own people's traditions and encouraged me to explore them.

BTW, heading out into the woods (warmly dressed) to light a tree and build a bonfire is actually a perty damned good time. Especially with the consumption of the right beverages. Even more fun to get back indoors and warm up with a lass under the covers while preforming the ultimate act of worship.

Good times.



But to retreat back to the issue we agree upon and is more on-topic, the commercial aspect of Christmas, I do believe that this is why congress took this action. To re-enforce that to be a good Christian, you have you run out to the mall and spend yourself into debt.

reply to post by BitRaiser


Then, on that one point, we agree! Congress created this a resolution for economical/commercial reasons rather than for putting a little more religion in the state.

You were tagged by me as a "FOE" a long while ago. It gives me warm fuzzys that two different people with completely different ideologys can find a common ground.

BTW, what would be the right beverages for you! If you said Jack Daniels or Crown Royal............then............

Good Show BitRaiser

[edit on 13-12-2007 by CreeWolf]

[edit on 13-12-2007 by CreeWolf]