The Quantum World--Your Observations There Make a Difference!

If anyone knows about Quantum Mechanics, then they know they are dealing with a subject that sounds like science fiction to others. This thread is to discuss the weirdness of how just observing something makes it different.

An example of this is in the Youtube link below.


When we have a slit in the wall and shoot PARTICLES are it, there is a line of where the particles hit on the other side. When we have two slits, there are two concentrated areas where the particles hit the other side.
With one slit, and with WAVES, there is one concentrated area in the middle. But with two slits, the waves bounce off each other and make many areas where the highest concentrations of wave energy are.

When firing electrons with one slit, they produce one concentrated area on the other side, but with two slits, they produce a pattern similar to that of two slit waves pattern (which can only mean electrons are both particle and wave).

When the scientists tries to figure out which slit the electrons go threw, they found out something very strange, and it's even stranger mathematically.




www.youtube.com...

Now, this is a great post.

I saw this video some time ago and it spurned me on to read a couple of books about it.

It turns out that, the study of "What is consciousness" is where the answer will be.....according to the books I have read.

There seems to be reluctance by Physicists to study this at depth and they pass it off (consciousness) as not there field of study.

Einstein couldn’t understand it so I don`t think we will get to the bottom of it in this post

The standard is the Copenhagen explanation
en.wikipedia.org...

To be honest, this subject absolutely fascinates me and I hope you get some clever people reply as this is beyond me and my pea brain.

I too have seen that video and the Flatland video, and I'm wondering, what whole video is that clip from? I really want to watch it!

But, do you know what this means? The electrons that make us up act differently when we are being observed! In my opinion, quantum physics is the most fun and baffling branch of science ^^

Edit- Found out what movie it's from, and downloading now...legally of course


[edit on 10/16/2007 by Hyzera]

See if you can find (legally, of course ;-p) the Feynmann lectures on physics. The audio version is great.

The experiment you describe is called Young's two slit experiment: en.wikipedia.org...'s_slits and it's very cool. Cooler is quantum entanglement.

If you've got any quantum questions feel free to ask - I'm not an expert but I do know a bit about it, especially about quantum computation. QC is big, because we already know that once the technology actually allows large quantum computers to be built we can use them to - for example - break all known encryption easily. Clearly a lot of governments and such are very keen to get hold of this tech, but as far as we know none has. Hopefully it'll be developed in universities rather than gov't labs...

That video I believe is incorrect. (thi sis a theory just like that video)

LEt me break it down for you.

To detect (measure, ie, observe) which slit the electron passes through, we have to make that electron interect with other quanti particles (like the electron) to know which slit that electron passes though. This interaction seems to make the wave function of the electron disappear and stay singular partcle like. Thus it isn't our mear observation making the electron become a "solid" entity, but the interaction with other quanti in which we need to use to detect (measure) where it is.

Its the word "observation" that is making people think we are just watching with no interaction, when in fact we are interacting.

I think that's about right - the observation doesn't have to made by a human in order to influence the outcome, it just has to be made. Consciousnes has nothing to do with it. All the shiny interpretations of QM like the many-worlds hypothesis or consciousness causing collapse are all uneccessary and rather unscientific - they don't predict any actual observations, jsut provide a philosophical framework for explaining this crazy thing. The actual theory doesn't need this interpretation to make predictions, it's just our feeble macroscopic minds that want an explanation. The fact of the matter is that quantum theories explain a huge range of phenomena with amazing accuracy. Philosophers can argue about what implications this has for metaphysics, but that's irrelevant to the physics.

Just finished watching the documentry, and all I saw were "floating heads" There was a lot of random people so called "scienctists" were there explaining.

favourite quote: "So in all, sex is just an invention to see into the future"

[edit on 10/17/2007 by Hyzera]

reply to post by Hyzera


I found that the Flatland video was very interesting too.

I believe there could be higher dimensional being (maybe souls/spirits) taht look down on us. They might view our world inwardly, just like we look down on 2-D objects.

I have also found a Carl Sagan video that he talks about 2-D and higher dimensions and he puts them in perspective for those who scratch their head when they here the word 'dimensions'.

One of the common theories is that you are the only observer of your own personal reality.

In this theory, there are an infinite number of universes (the multiverse) and we "tune in" to certain frequencies.

If we are to believe string theory (an expansion of QT), then at the sub-atomic level everything we see is basically a waveform. The possibility for anything exists. We simply aren't aware of (and therefore can't experience) anything we haven't learned via the law of association.

The natives not seeing Columbus' ships falls into this category. With this in mind, we could potentially have UFOs flying around yet not being able to see them until we build up an association.

I just made a topic the other day about this kind of stuff going into more detail.

There's an explanation for this behaviour other than something "hiding" from us when we view it, or some clever programming by a "God" (I still think its all clever programming by God, however ):

Why the behaviour changes when observed

The "observing device" has to physically interact with the photon - no physical interaction, no detection, so a physical interaction must occur. Passing through a "detector" increases the time taken to pass that point, so something is affecting the photon, which is not the same as simply looking at things like water with our eyes.

It all goes back to "if a tree fell in the woods". The simple fact is that "if the tree falls in the woods" implies that a "tree" is a tree and it is, has, OR will fall. This, in turn, invokes the laws of physics and quantum mechanics, conceptually,theoretically and physically. We live in a strange, great world and we are finding new discoveries everyday, Great discussion.

Originally posted by Kruel
One of the common theories is that you are the only observer of your own personal reality.

In this theory, there are an infinite number of universes (the multiverse) and we "tune in" to certain frequencies.

Could you expand on this a bit? I'm not aware of any scientific basis for this theory.

Originally posted by jim_w

Originally posted by Kruel
One of the common theories is that you are the only observer of your own personal reality.

In this theory, there are an infinite number of universes (the multiverse) and we "tune in" to certain frequencies.

Could you expand on this a bit? I'm not aware of any scientific basis for this theory.

I'll let Michio Kaku explain, as he does a better job than I. It's near the end of the interview, but the whole thing is interesting.

A MySpace video? Do you have any links to a textual description? Video isn't a good way to get across complex scientific ideas.

This link to 'HowStuffWorks' may help you for those who find this thread confusing.

--Super String Theory supports a multi-universe full of unlimited possibilities

--If someone is killed in our universe, they remain alive in man other universes (Superposition as it is known) and that leads to another topic: that we/energy is eternal and can never die.

Forgot to post the link, here it is.




science.howstuffworks.com...

The howstuffworks article says that the Copenhagen interpretation is "getting a run for its money" from the many-worlds hypothesis. This reflects a subtle misunderstanding of the situation. The different interpretations of QM cannot be distinguished by experiment - they all use that same actual theory, just they explain the metaphysics differently. The most basic explanation just says "these equations correctly predict the average behaviour of an ensemble of particles". That's beyond dispute; other interpretations like the many-worlds hyothesis add some philosophy to the explanation by talking about parallel universes and such. This is one possible interpretation, but so is the idea that God rolls a die every time a quantum system is observed and chooses which outcome will be observed. Neither can be proved or disproved, so they're not science but rather philosophy.