Do YOU trust the voting process??

At the very highest levels I suspect there have been no honest elections in the USA and Canada since the public assassination of JFK. Ronald Reagan was an anomaly who was neutralised by the G.H.W. Bush people in that governmental administration. Mexico has never had fair and honest elections at the federal level. The decision to move from PRI to PAN was something worked out sub rosa years before it happened.

My feeling is that all electrical ballot counting is a grave danger to us all because the desire to manipulate data is something that has been with us since the stuffing of ballot boxes. While technological advancements should result it a better outcome, they simply become the next battleground for the nefarious meddlers who want to control everything that happens on this planet.

thebadge

I joined just to reply to you. You have the appearance of a patriot, but the your reasoning bugs me.

this may have been covered, but it won't hurt you to hear it again. By not voting, you give up your official opinion on a matter. It doesn't count.

Let me ask you something. By not voting, what differentiates you from about half of the eligible voters who don't vote because they can't be bothered, or they just don't care? Your non-vote is the same as theirs, and the only justification for your non-vote is posted here at ATS where 99 % of your neighbors will never see it.

My humble opinion is there is a lot more value in voting for a person you agree with, who may have no chance of winning, than not voting at all. At the very least, you can stand tall and say you voted for someone. Without that, any of your future arguments about the guy who won, carry no weight.

Send a voted message, and then tell everyone you can what you did. Although you might not feel like you made a difference with your vote in this election, I can almost guarantee you will make someone think twice about the next one....possibly even 50 or 100 people....(you can talk to a lot of people in 4 years.)

My $ .02

Be Well,
Ams.



[edit on 14-9-2007 by amstrdam]

[edit on 14-9-2007 by amstrdam]

Originally posted by sp00n1
Yes, vote fraud is very real. It goes back as far as voting.

There were rumors that the mob stuffed ballot boxes for JFK without his consent.


For me, the big one was florida 2000. Not every vote was counted, and when they were it became clear that Gore won! Tens of THOUSANDS of innocent black voters were put on the felon list so that they couldnt vote. FOX reversed the results of the election by broadcasting the results they wanted. The supreme court stepped in, usurping the whole process, and simply declared bush the winner even tho the recount was still going on.

Then in 2004, again, tons of fraud. Not enough voting booths at democratic locations expecting lots of traffic. The result being a three hour wait to vote, too long for most voters.

Then there's the Diebold. Nobody can really say for certain what the # is going on there. Our government FEC cannot look at the source code. They have IR ports and all sorts of vulnerabilities with no paper trail.

George Bush, a guy that would steal two elections... what makes you think he won't take a third?

I could not have worded it better myself and I will not even try. IMO you are right on the money. Our last two elections told us the tale. If it was no clear before, it should be clear now to everyone. THE BEST thing we could do as a people is refuse to vote at all, but that will just never happen. IMO that would be the best non violent way to make our statement that we know what is going on.

As some like to say "It's not the people who votes that count. It's the people who count the votes." and no Stalin did not say that, keep in mind he was a dictator and NEVER was apart of an election, but if it makes people feel better to use a "real quote" you can always look to William Marcy Tweed who said, "As long as I count the votes, what are you going to do about it?"

It's so obvious that it is rigged. I wonder when someone is gonna invade us and establish a democracy. The company in charge of verifying and writing voting software is VoteHere. Who was on there board of directors? How about Robert Gates...no conflict of interest there.
What does one do after serving as the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff? He becomes a senior military adviser to the Secretaries of Defense Frank Carlucci and Dick Cheney. With a resume like that your ready to go on and become the Chairman of the board for VoteHere. Well that is what Admiral Bill Owens did anyway. By the way for those who want to connect the dots Frank Carlucci's company is the Carlyle Group.
Yeahhhh for Democracy!!!!

Yes I'm gettig the feeling like voting is an exercise in futility,I'm thinking the races are decided before the voting starts

I vote religiously in the feeble hope that it can change something. I feel that if I don't I forfit the right to bitch about the system. I vote against the party I so vehemantly disagree with; but I haven't voted for someone in a very long time and it gets tedious. I go into the voting booth feeling that I should have at the very least a clothes pin on my nose, if not a gas mask or a full blown bio-hazzard suit. After 2000 and 2004 I fear our system is so totally broken that pretty soon the powers that be will simply forgo the whole sharade and appoint a bush for life god help us all.

We need a new constiuitional congress or a revloution or both.

The real bottom line here is the obvious distrust of the federal government by the citizens of the U.S. We will always be skeptical, we will always wonder in the back of our minds if the election was rigged. I could vote, sure, but if I leave the booth feeling in my heart and mind that is was pre determined and that I just wasted my time, then what is the point of voting at all?

How can we remedy the situation and put the ballot counting on an even, honest, un biased playing field where we will all know for certain that the votes are actually counted correctly and honestly? We need some system to police the ones who count the votes, we need a system that will be error and fraud proof. I have no problem with a candidate winning an election that I did not vote for, if it is done honestly and fairly. My issue is that I feel like no matter who I vote for, good or bad, it wont matter a damn bit.

What would it take to keep the voting process honest? How would you do it?

Originally posted by BlackOps719
What would it take to keep the voting process honest? How would you do it?

To me, the first and most important step toward honest elections is an honest electorate. If the majority of voters are honest, moral people who are properly concerned with the direction of their country, then we’re half way there. The biggest problem IMO, is that too many people are self absorbed victims of the consumer culture who simply can’t be bothered to seek out the truth, much less hold their so called representatives accountable.

I think it's very important to insure that all elections use paper ballots that can be gone back to and looked at by all parties. This in no way precludes fraud, but it at least provides a paper trail that can be referred to in disputes. Computer voting machines should be completely done away with, in any form that can manipulate the vote in any way. I have no problem with optical scans and the like, as long as there is a paper ballot to refer back to. Perhaps a hand count of every ballot in every election is in order. If we have an enthusiastic electorate, manpower should be no problem. Big if, I know.

Also, I’m concerned about the myriad laws that surround elections. Seems to me that they’re manipulated to exclude certain voters and so benefit those that enforce the laws. I’m no expert on election laws, but perhaps they should be simplified so as to allow less manipulation at election time.

I also think that the way money is such a big player in elections is a problem. There’s simply no question that you’ve got to have big bucks to get elected today, and that necessarily skews things in favor of big money. Once again I think the solution is with the electorate. Enough little guys getting together can easily put up enough money to get their candidate elected, the problem here is with the MSM, and the tendency of most people to believe whatever they're told. So we’re right back to personal responsibility on the part of the voters. Knowledge is power, ignorance is slavery.

edit for sp

[edit on 15-9-2007 by resistor]

Originally posted by Oldtimer2
Yes I'm gettig the feeling like voting is an exercise in futility,I'm thinking the races are decided before the voting starts

The further we move along in the presidential candidate race, the more I tend to agree with you. Do you ever get the feeling that elections of this magnitude are decided ahead of time in dark meeting rooms, instead of at the ballot box?

How would we ever know if it were true or not? What measures are in place to guarantee that the results are fair?

I have a few theories about this current race.

I believe that Ron Paul has thrown a wrench into the decision makers plans, and he has plainly been frozen out in the polls, there is obvious media bias against him. I think the ones who are really running the show are trying very hard to silence him.

This is the way I see the race shaping up. Hilliary Clinton will get the Democratic nod, likely in an effort to present the smokescreen of political equality, being that she would be the first non white male to run for the presidency under a major party.

Rudy Giuliani will win the Republican nomination and will pull out a "close" victory to become the newest leader of the U.S. This will be his reward from the powers that be for bravely overseeing, or better yet overlooking, that whole 9/11 catastrophe.

Just a theory mind you. Interested to see what lie they will sell us this time around.

[edit on 11/25/07 by BlackOps719]

I don't remember who said it, but it rings true...

"If voting really made a difference; it would be illegal"

reply to post by whaaa


Interesting quote...I like it.

But wow, if everything truly is rigged from the get go then we are all just spinning our wheels. It would also indicate to me that if the elections are a sham here in the U.S.A. then by default all other "elections" throughout the world are crooked as well.

We won't even bother getting into elections in the third world and in places like sub-saharan Africa or south east Asia.

I haven't trusted the American voting system ever. Only a fool would.

Originally posted by 123143
I haven't trusted the American voting system ever. Only a fool would.

At one time I was very politically active at the local level and now I see the greed and corruption even in small town mayoral elections.

The developers pull the strings reguardless of what's best for the residents.

I feel like a chump!

reply to post by sp00n1


Thats's an extremely revisionist account of what happened in Florida. The truth is that there were multiple recounts, none of which gave Gore a victory. The Republican party, Fox News, etc.. can't just say so in so is a felon(especially seeing as how the voting machine doesn't ask your race), so don't even try to go there. Gore would've been all over that story if there were any truth to it whatsoever.

I just wanted to revisit this thread to see how people are feeling about this topic now that we are weeks (seems like years!) into the voting primaries and have endured countless debates and are familiar with the presidential hopefuls.

Anyone out there having a change of heart yet? Has anyone been impressed by any particular candidate? Anyone feeling even remotely optimistic now that you have had a chance to see our "democracy" in action? Do any of the candidates seem less fake and automated this time around?

Personally for me there has only been one candidate voicing anything similar to what our constitution demands, and unfortunately he is being forcibly removed from contention. Does anyone see any real change on the horizon for America or is it just more of the same?

So now that the campaigns are in full swing and the promises are flowing freely, I ask again, do YOU trust this voting process?

I still don't trust the voting process in America.

There is so much money at stake; to think that some kind of voting shenanigans aren't widespread would be extremely naive.



It's a brave new world, welcome to the monkey house.

I do not trust in the voting process. I must say, that the HBO documentary opened my eyes. Our current process is a joke.

Who would leave the decision in the hands of a single company, to decide who leads a superpower. A single company? Where's the checks and balance? Oh that's right. The same balance that leads Fox News may be the same balance that leads our electoral process. It's all related.

Here's the thing, before this year I was not registered. I could care less. If they rigged machines, at least they were not rigging my vote. But that has lead me to the thinking, what's worse, a stolen vote, or a none vote?

I am 28 and never cared before. That is until I learned about a old doctor from Texas. Imagine that. But I regress, and I will bring this topic there.

If I vote, even if I have to write his name in, that will give me satisfaction. I never thought that wasting my right of voting mattered much. Until that is, they started taking away my rights to do such things. That's when I changed my mind.

Let them steal my vote, or throw it away, or what ever programming tricks they do. But in the end, I will have the satisfaction of actually caring and putting forth my right as American to vote for who is really the best for this country, regardless if the media and the status quo have already thrown him out. My vote, and my right will go with him.

Who knows how long that right, to vote, may last, might as well take part this time. Who knows, next time we may need the real ID, to take part.

Time to watch the nazi State of the Union address.

Originally posted by sp00n1

Banned BBC documentary documenting the voter fraud.

Google Video Link

Any chance you know where to aquire a working version of this documentry please?

Thanks.

The popular vote doesnt really matter anyway... It's the "Super Delegates" that get the final say.