Contact and Major Change?

Originally posted by schuylerThey just jumped on the highway like the invaders of Rome used their roads against them.

Interstellar barbarians? Well, that too could be, provided they reached the stars by standing on the tentacles of others more advanced than themselves. Complete barbarity usually doesn't accomplish much in the way of technical progress when left on it's own.

Laugh if you will, but we could face contact with space pirates as easily as any other, and in some ways it's even more likely. Outlaws usually flee beyond the pale long before the tides of explorers and settlers.

Originally posted by Atlantix
The ETs are never going to land on the lawn of the white house then have a meeting with the government. If that ever happens, it will be staged and part of a devious plan to make believe something to the population. As it has always been with such important matters, the truth and the real events happen behind the scenes, the government only tell us what they want us to know.

Yes, this is the way of governments. But there are times, when the "story" is too big and too easily seen, that it can't be hidden. Then the best they can do is to try and spin it to the angle that suits them at the time.

I used the White House Lawn as a way to describe an open event that couldn't easily be hushed up. As I have said before, there's no reason to think that would be a choice piece of real estate in the minds of ETs bent on contact. After all, it is a rental property with a fairly high turnover rate.



[edit on 12-8-2007 by NGC2736]

Originally posted by paul76
I think one month after disclosure we would see sponsored UFO'S flying around the football stadia, Antigravity nike sneakers, virtual reality erotica, and package holidays to venus val thors birthplace.

But we would need to have something of value to trade for all this. There will need to be something that is uniquely human and unlike anything else so far found by ET to create trade. I am not much of a believer in innate benevolence.

That is a naive assumption, trade is a tool for primitive races.

If you have the technology to make virtually anything out of nothing why do need trade??

Surely it would depend on what they had to say, right?

Least amount of social change:

"Hey! We found you! What do you know? We're on a planet at this coordinate and you're the first other life we've found in the universe! High-five!"

A case of extreme change:

"Oh, you haven't wired your brains to other dimensions yet? Close your eyes.....now open them. Welcome to a more complete reality. That monkey body is a drag, isn't it? Enjoy your future in the ascended dimensions. "

Originally posted by Boockelbee
That is a naive assumption, trade is a tool for primitive races. If you have the technology to make virtually anything out of nothing why do [you] need trade??

That's naive in itself. You're assuming 'aliens,' if they got here, have unlimited technology to make 'anything out of nothing'? It may very well be that though they are more tecnologically advanced than we are, they have not yet reached the 'replicator' stage. They may need particular combinations of the elements they lack found in abundance here.

Also, even if we accept the possibility thay are a 'replicator' race, that does not mean they have unlimited imagination. The western world has a penchant for 'primtive art,' for example, that could be easily manufactured from available raw materials locally. But we prefer (and will pay dearly for) the 'genuine article' rather than a dime store knock off.

Well, one thing is clear... it would make the rockets the Bush's, Putin's and Hu Jintao's are so proud off look very small....

Originally posted by Boockelbee

That is a naive assumption, trade is a tool for primitive races.

If you have the technology to make virtually anything out of nothing why do need trade??

The idea of making something from nothing as an actual attribute of aliens seems more of a naive assumption than trade.

Even if it's only the exchange of ideas, it is still trade, because each "side" has something of value for the other.

Originally posted by jamesder

A case of extreme change:

"Oh, you haven't wired your brains to other dimensions yet? Close your eyes.....now open them. Welcome to a more complete reality. That monkey body is a drag, isn't it? Enjoy your future in the ascended dimensions. "

Would it not also matter who among us had this new wiring. Would there be a mad scramble to "protect" the average citizen from this? Would you need to get a license from your government to do this? Who would control this kind of information?

But yes, if we could all share in the next evolutionary step for mankind, it would be something grand.

Originally posted by Terrapop
Well, one thing is clear... it would make the rockets the Bush's, Putin's and Hu Jintao's are so proud off look very small....

Worse yet, it would make the idea of needing such things seem a bit odd. A modern human would look at a caveman, with his spear and club as being pretty old fashioned. The hunter can provide himself with food most of the time, but the modern human of thousands of years ago learned that if you raise the food, instead of hunting for it, your suppl is better assured.

I wonder what new concepts we could learn to embrace?

Originally posted by NGC2736

Originally posted by jamesder

A case of extreme change:

"Oh, you haven't wired your brains to other dimensions yet? Close your eyes.....now open them. Welcome to a more complete reality. That monkey body is a drag, isn't it? Enjoy your future in the ascended dimensions. "

Would it not also matter who among us had this new wiring. Would there be a mad scramble to "protect" the average citizen from this? Would you need to get a license from your government to do this? Who would control this kind of information?

But yes, if we could all share in the next evolutionary step for mankind, it would be something grand.

One thing modern technology (the internet) is doing well is disrupting hierarchical power structures, democratizing information and restoring a bit of power to the average citizen. I often think of "contact" as being the modern equivalent to the second coming of Christ (possibly not just an equivalent, but the same thing viewed through the eyes of wiser men). What did Christ do for pre-modern man? He injected a disbelief in the social, scientific and political milieu of the day. The ruling government had to kill the man to suppress revolution.*

The network has been laid to get the "message" to every human instantaneously. I don't think the powers that be could contain it....nor do I think they'd attempt to. Those in power are human beings, too. The idea of centralized power and male-dominator egocentrism could be wiped from their consciousness with one simple "miracle".

(* for what it's worth, i'm not a christian and this is not a religious message....but I think "contact" would be as significant as "the second coming")

Originally posted by jamesderThose in power are human beings, too. The idea of centralized power and male-dominator egocentrism could be wiped from their consciousness with one simple "miracle".

The theory of evolution speaks against this idea, as change seems to be always a gradual curve. Also, the changes brought about by the event of the first coming of Christ are still not universal. Nor are the teachings of Buddha and others.

It seems that humans are slow learners.

While it is entirely possible that a "miracle" could change man, I find that it is unlikely due to the wide range of human thought patterns, and the basic core desire of man to put his own best interests ahead of all else. (The Greed Factor.)

(*I too am not a Christian, and am not using these ideas to promote any idealogical belief system over any other.)

Originally posted by NGC2736
The theory of evolution speaks against this idea, as change seems to be always a gradual curve.

That's true, but it appears to me that the boot-strapping of technology is becoming more important than the actual mutation of the DNA. In fact, it appears that evolution itself is evolving.

Originally posted by NGC2736Also, the changes brought about by the event of the first coming of Christ are still not universal. Nor are the teachings of Buddha and others.

It seems that humans are slow learners.

That's part of my point. In the last 50 years, we've laid the framework for the instantaneous download of a "new operating system". A much larger segment of the population would be aware of the miracle...or something so beyond our technology that it appears to be miraculous.

What I think would have significant impact on affecting the population from the ruling class down would be this situation: Egocentricism and power-madness reach it's peak and the order is given to launch our greatest weapons at our enemies...and the UFO intervenes. The humbling effect that would have on those who have the authority to sling such weapons would be incalcuable, I think.

While DNA change is gradual, so other changes seem to be almost as slow. As an example, even now there are many people who cannot read or write. (A few of them come to some threads here. --and no, that wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular, just a humorous look at some of the "kids" we get, including those who try really dumb hoaxes.)

Seriously, man invented writing thousands of years ago, and despite the advent of today's technology, it is still not universal. We're a slow learning species.

And humbling a politician is almost as hard as making one of those critters honest. I could see peace being forced on humanity as a greater likelyhood than I could seeing man embrace it willingly in the "blink of an eye".

I hope, should ET come knocking and offering us a step up on the ladder, that you be right and me wrong. Hope is the saving grace of our species.

What if they had nothing to show us? What if their technology was so advanced and species specific it would be useless to us? What then? Remove the technology advantage from the equation and you are forced to consider the social and theological aspect.

What if they were able to show us there is no god?

What is they were able to show us the future or the past?

What if they were not able to show us anything at all?

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
What if their technology was so advanced and species specific it would be useless to us?

Well, then, it would be useless to us.

Remove the technology advantage from the equation and you are forced to consider the social and theological aspect.

What if they were able to show us there is no god?

Well, then, they would. Religion, by and large, isn't about facts, but more a matter of faith. Some people would believe the aliens because they are aliens. Some people would disbelieve the aliens because they are aliens. It is unlikely the aliens could categorically 'prove' the non-existance of god anyway.

What is they were able to show us the future or the past?

Well, then, they would.

What if they were not able to show us anything at all?

Well, then, they couldn't.

If you have any speculation on any of these questions I'm sure others would give you the courtesy of reading what you have to say.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
What if they had nothing to show us? What if their technology was so advanced and species specific it would be useless to us? What then? Remove the technology advantage from the equation and you are forced to consider the social and theological aspect.

Interesting. I guess it's possible that a species could be so alien that they make no sense to us. They could be ethereal beings fading in and out of the frequencies we can perceive and they could appear to us as intelligent whisps of color which we are unable to even begin to communicate with.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
What if they were able to show us there is no god?

I think that would actually have less effect than people think. Religions would fall, but that's not (from my point of view) any more significant than Wal-Mart going bankrupt. Religious disputes and holy wars are usually more about territory than religion. The motives of those who fight in the name of their god would probably change to simple cultural disputes.

Then again, you'd have those who point to the new "revelation" as a test of their faith by Satan.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFactsWhat is they were able to show us the future or the past?

That would be great and even better than cool new toys!

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFactsWhat if they were not able to show us anything at all?

I think that's unlikely.

Perhaps it is just me, but I find it unlikely that we could meet a new culture and learn nothing. The very fact that we met would at the least show us that we are not that special in the grand scheme of things.

And provided these ETs had some solid form/interaction with the "real" universe that we inhabit, then whatever passed for their science would have to be something we could learn.

Even if the visitors did not share any technology, the simple fact that their actions showed FTL or wormhole or whatever travel to be within the realm of some branch of physics, then we would be spurred to attain the same.

Humans are programed to "keep up with the competition", even if the competition lives two galaxies away.

After the initial panic, I think that the biggest problem that we would have is protecting the aliens from the humans. People are constantly killing eachother over petty differences on this planet. Can you imagine the amount of xenophobia that an alien race would bring up. The fact that we have a word for it should tell you something. People are easily spooked and contact with a species that looked like a grey would send them off. Can you imagine the reception that a species that resembled a lizard or fish would get? I think that it would be best if they sent an ambassador who ressembled a kitten, that way they would at least get to say something before someone started shooting.
That being said, send your ambassador to Canada. I think that we're the least likely to shoot and we validate star ship parking.

I think open alien contact would be a bad thing for us all the way around. When two unequal and vastly different cultures encounter each other, the lesser one always suffers to some extent - often fatally - even when no overt hostilities take place.

Our relationship to them would be totally one sided - all in their favor. And explain to me how we could ever even trust them - we would have no way to really verify any claims they make. Assessing their true motives is about as futile as my cat figuring out why, and where, I go when I put on my gym clothes and head out the door to La Fitness.

Now if contact is limited to a SETI signal or something "minor", then that would be news for a while, but would be quickly forgotten as the day to day BS of life on Earth continues. Even if ET is out there, I still gotta go to work every day.

So since this is not the utopian world of Star Trek where man has evolved past his petty differences and violent tendancies for the good of mankind, I do not think Earth is ready to move up the ladder so to speak for a long while until we can at least eliminate major world conflicts and deal with that whole world hunger/poverty business.

Perhaps in a few hundred years, if genetic engineering has somehow bred out of us the urge to be serial killers, abuse animals, kill each other over whose religion is better, or become tyrannical dictators.. THEN we might be ready to play ball. Until then the most we can hope for is ET showing up and syaing "Knock off all this crap or we are going to start the experiment over from scratch!"