Sad State of American Education..

“All who have meditated on the art of governing mankind have been convinced that the fate of empires depends on the education of youth.”
-- Aristotle

As a nation boasting the most advanced weaponry on earth, the most mobile and most ready to call, most active military of our time we give so little attention to our own people. On the world scale, ranking with our brothers around the world in the fields of education that fact that we are not number one is sickening. To think that we are capable of the industrial might that we have reached, the fact that we can invade any nation on earth within days or hours of the call to do so, the fact that we can fly stealth bombers from America, refuel in air to bomb a third world country and fly home without ever touching a run way is amazing and sad in the least.

Americas education system has been on the downfall since its creation, the constitution does not exactly define who has authority over the education system. Usually is something of that importance is not mentioned it may be left to the states to decide or even the local level. The bureaucratic democracy worked its way into education and standardized the entire thing, completely under funded, low paid teachers with less then preferred education to be able to teach, and the standardized testing system that forces children through a tube to gauge their knowledge based on how well they test.

No longer do we praise a young child for being different, accepting that not all children learn the same, instead we force the material that is in these test down their throats a few weeks before the testing begins. Why force it down their throats and not gradual education? Why not pay attention to a students specific needs? Because the school are so over crowded, so under funded that the people that run these institutions can’t afford to give the attention each child deserves. If a school does poorly on the standardized test they go into “academic emergency” which results in funding cuts and becoming a public disgrace, what city wants to boast about their school system if it is in academic emergency? The system becomes demoralized, the ones in charge need to be re-elected, the school is now further under funded and the students are thought of less by other school districts surrounding the schools in academic emergency.

Most of these schools are inner city, a lot of times minorities make up the base population, most of these schools receive far less attention and funding per student then the smaller schools of the more wealthy suburbs. So to keep up, to not be the disgrace of the region the schools begin teaching only what is on the standardized test to get as many kids to pass as possible, so long as there is an improvement, the kids get nothing out of these test, they in no way measure a students intelligence level nor does it gauge the ability of the staff to teach the children.

Any school that receives more money, can afford more extra curricular activities after school, have smaller class sizes, can afford better equipment will do better then a school that lacks in all those areas. It has nothing to do with student intelligent levels, inner city kids are in no way less intelligent then suburban kids, they are just unfairly robbed of the finances to fund their education.

The government has said it is improving the education system in America, though many teachers do not go along with the no child left behind act, the government insist things have improved. The government in reality has begun cutting the budget for education, slimming a total of around $3.1 billion. But do not fear, the budget cuts came from all of those unimportant classes that don’t teach anything to our children, such as Arts, including music, and grants to poor families for literacy Even Start, just to name a few. Who cares if poor people can’t read and the children no longer have time to express their creative abilities so long as they can pass a standardized test?

Our nation is currently ranked 9th in the industrialized world in education for the 25-34 age range, and there is no doubt we have some great universities but our younger children, in their teens rank 15th in the industrialized world. There are great institutions of knowledge in America, but the fact is there is to much diversity between the well funded and the under funded. The government needs to invest in EDUCATION instead of wars if it TRULY wants to secure our future.. with out intelligent members in society that can actively function on an educated level.. we will fall behind in the world, be it power and economy, and take a place of SHAME in the history books.

There is simple no excuse why the United States cannot fund education adequately with the economic force we have. Truly embarrassing.

Now this is interesting. Some people would say that todays schooling is "to much" while others think its not enough at all. These ppl would like to cut back on certain assignments. We in the past have thrown money at the situation hoping that that will solve the problem. It hasnt. Most kids would rather be partying or out at the mall. School is just to boring... Public schooling is more about socializing it seems and less about learning. and some of it is just to easy which only seems to dumb down the general populous. I think more needs to be done on the state and local levels to help this problem.


However, our universitys are tops in the world. 17 of the worlds top 20 universitys are located in America. Our ability to attract the best and brightest from within the states and abroad is second to none. So in those regards, its not in that bad of shape. And theres always the option of private schooling which is on the rise.



[edit on 023030p://0804pm by semperfoo]

Originally posted by semperfoo
However, our universitys are tops in the world. 17 of the worlds top 20 universitys are located in America.

Where did you get that from?

Originally posted by semperfoo
Public schooling is more about socializing it seems and less about learning. and some of it is just to easy which only seems to dumb down the general populous.

Very true. Those who are serious about their studies are labeled "nerds" and "geeks," which is fine because when these "nerds" and "geeks" are actually making something out of their lives, all of these "popular" people will be struggling.

The intelligence level in the United States is something I have talked about quite a bit. One of the biggest problems that I see is that people do not read anymore. We are living in a society where 20% of the population is functionally illiterate and I really don't see anyone doing anything about it.

All I see is a continuation of the "entertainment" culture and I don't see anything of worth coming out of it, to be quite honest.

[edit on 3-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by Odium

Originally posted by semperfoo
However, our universitys are tops in the world. 17 of the worlds top 20 universitys are located in America.

Where did you get that from?

Top 500 World Universities (1-100)
ed.sjtu.edu.cn...(1-100).htm

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by semperfoo
Public schooling is more about socializing it seems and less about learning. and some of it is just to easy which only seems to dumb down the general populous.

Very true. Those who are serious about their studies are labeled "nerds" and "geeks," which is fine because when these "nerds" and "geeks" are actually making something out of their lives, all of these "popular" people will be struggling.

The thing is those geeks end up with the last laugh. Bill gates anyone? They also are the ones who end up running things.

Originally posted by semperfoo


The thing is those geeks end up with the last laugh. Bill gates anyone? They also are the ones who end up running things.

Precisely my point.

I tell you, it just seems to me that we are training people to be unintelligent in our society. When was the last time that anyone here can actually say they have walked in the park and seen someone leaning up against a tree reading a good book on philosophy or history? I am willing to bet that if you ever have, it has been a long, long time.

Instead, we have a group of people, not just youngsters, older people as well, who have absolutely no desire to learn about anything outside their realm of their existence. Why? That's the way they were raised. How many can actually remember their mother reading to them as a child? I can. I suppose that's why I read so much myself.

People would rather sit and watch "crap" TV, than to pick up a book and actually gain something from it. It's a rather sad state of affairs.



[edit on 3-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

There is simply no excuse why the United States cannot fund education adequately with the economic force we have. Truly embarrassing.

I think the fault lies in the public's inability to acknowledge that the education system is being used as an instrument to indoctrinate their kids.

The object of education should be to prepare the young to educate themselves throughout their lives. Instead, a majority of America's children are raised by government-established, politician and bureaucrat-controlled, fully politicized, taxpayer-supported, authoritarian-socialist institutions.

These kids are trained to accept the idea of following absolutely and without question, without criticism, without opposition until they are unable to learn, unlearn, or relearn.

Karl Marx and Frederick Engels wrote a book outlining a political ideology, titled "The Communist Manifesto". This manifesto describes "ten planks" that must carried out to destroy free enterprise society.

The tenth Plank: Free education for all children in public schools.
Why? If the state can teach one what to think rather than how to think, there is no stopping it.

Western Europe developed the system of obligatory public education. It came to Eastern Europe as an achievement of Western civilization. But it has turned into a dreadful weapon in the hands of governments.

There is, in fact, only one solution: the state, the government, the laws must not in any way concern themselves with schooling or education. Public funds must not be used for such purposes. The rearing and instruction of youth must be left entirely to parents and to private associations and institutions. -Ludwig von Mises

Originally posted by METACOMET
... the fault lies in the public's inability to acknowledge that the education system is being used as an instrument to indoctrinate their kids.

The object of education should be to prepare the young to educate themselves throughout their lives.

Think for yourselves or think what your told to think.

That's freedom or communism and fascism.

Socialists just tend to want the greater body of believers to do the right thing. If everyone just did the right thing there would be no need for socialists. But since that isn't happening anytime soon (Holding my breath now) we end up being told to think.

Can anyone say dig your own grave?

Starting to see some movement on the issue. Tough crowd


[edit on 4-4-2007 by In nothing we trust]

I always believed public education to be a beuracracy whose existance was for the sole purpose of providing a mass quantity of jobs with the given challenge of distributing money which would countinually increase the need to raise taxes.

Educating anyone in the process is an added bonus.

Originally posted by semperfoo

Originally posted by Odium

Originally posted by semperfoo
However, our universitys are tops in the world. 17 of the worlds top 20 universitys are located in America.

Where did you get that from?

Top 500 World Universities (1-100)
ed.sjtu.edu.cn...(1-100).htm

You know what, no methodology, no list of sources, no lists of how they worked any of this out and was in 2004. No offence, but it's not that good a source to credit. Especailly since the U.K. and US education system are so different.

I did this thread about 6 months ago and had it saved on my hard drive, forgot about it.. the links that where with it no longer worked - or where moved meh I don't know..

The study on our nations international education ranking came directly from the United Nations, another from TIME magazine and Harvard university.

Not one source put America close to #1

Originally posted by Odium
You know what, no methodology, no list of sources, no lists of how they worked any of this out and was in 2004. No offence, but it's not that good a source to credit. Especailly since the U.K. and US education system are so different.

Here is another one... Top 3000 universities.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
“All who have meditated on the art of governing mankind have been convinced that the fate of empires depends on the education of youth.”
-- Aristotle

they are just unfairly robbed of the finances to fund their education.

The problem here is the myth that "finances" provide education. Did Aristotle or Abraham Lincoln or Thomas Edison or any number of other great personages have unlimited funding of their education?

The truth is it costs nothing to teach someone (financially speaking). What it does cost is time and effort. That is where the U.S. fails. We have unlimited funds but we don't have the desire to teach. We don't have time to spend with our children to feed their inate desire to learn.
A child can learn to read far better with an old newspaper and a devoted teacher than one with an unlimited library and internet access and a bored, uncaring "educator".
In much of American society today, education is diminished and treated with indifference. It's a problem with America's attitude-not it's assets.

In my opinion it is all about the lack of competition in our public schools. You can throw all the damn money you want into education and it won't change a thing. Until you allow students to choose their public school it will just get worse and more expensive. Make the schools compete for students and it will improve. I found this video that supports my argument. A bit long but worth the watch.

Also, another example of how government is the problem, not the solution. Sorry but I had to slip that in there.

I can only imagine how our health care system will slip down the drain when the government monopolizes it as well.

Originally posted by LostSailor

Originally posted by Odium
You know what, no methodology, no list of sources, no lists of how they worked any of this out and was in 2004. No offence, but it's not that good a source to credit. Especailly since the U.K. and US education system are so different.

Here is another one... Top 3000 universities.

Notice how none of them agree on who is the best?

Maybe we can now all work out that there's no such thing as the "best" Universities.

Originally posted by LostSailor
Make the schools compete for students and it will improve.

This is exactly what they've done in hte U.K. and we are in the worst position that I can remember. Now the best Schools have over inflated house prices in the local areas, so people stand more chance of getting in them, the schools who "do better" get the richer children and it has created a weatlh divide in the public education system.

It gets even worse when you reward the schools based on grades. Schools who have a higher number of "rich" students, will always do better. Their parents can afford the private tutors, computers, internet, etcetera where as the poor can't.

Use just create an educational class system that keeps the poor down.

Originally posted by Odium
Maybe we can now all work out that there's no such thing as the "best" Universities.

No, I disagree, here is another one. The reason our universities are so good in the US is the fact they have to compete! We have the best Universities in the world. We could also have the best K-12 schools as well if we got the government out of them.

There is a unionized monopoly on our public schools. Americans aren't dumber then the rest of the world. Our school system is dumber then the rest of the worlds.

Originally posted by Odium
Use just create an educational class system that keeps the poor down.

We have that right now in the US. Did you even watch the video?

[edit on 7-4-2007 by LostSailor]

Originally posted by LostSailor
No, I disagree, here is another one.

Logic evades you I see.

If you bothered to read the lists, you'd notice they differ which means they can't decide on who is best. If they can't do that what does it suggest? Furthermore, Cambridge students on average when I was at Uni had lower grades than where I went.

We have that right now in the US. Did you even watch the video?

I skipped through parts of it, the arguement that he suggests doesn't work. We have it right now in the U.K. and it is ruining this Nation day in and day out, when Schools compete the worse schools get left behind and who always ends up there? Only the poor. How will they have any chance of social mobility?