Christianity: Possibly Satan's utlimate deceit?

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Aha, but only one of us believes in Satan.

Aha, then the One you don't believe in is winning!
This is the CON.

Supporting? The demons and Satan are supporting the premise of rebirth? As a further question, do you believe that non-christians are destined for hell?

Pushing, promoting, suggesting, impling, Yes.

As for a further question, let's do that later. Thats a Topic alone. Hell?

I say demons are behind the church and the misrepresentation of Christ. Would Christ be happy with the behavior of the US Christian Right? What kind of bomb would he prefer, conventional or nuclear? And how about the Catholic Church?

I'd say again, your very observant. The "Church" fails in teaching God's Word. It teaches the Doctrines of the Sect. Is this a manifestation of Demonic influence? OF COURSE IT IS. What do those TWO churches in Revelation Teach? They taught, "WHO THE CAINITE IS". Those, (in this case), who claim to be Jewish, but are of their Father, SATAN. (Paraphrased)

Do you get this my friend? The direct and specific implication of the early portion of Revelations speaks to this. 2 Churches taught who the CAINITE IS.

What importance is this? You feel there is no Satan. Well, tell that to those who are decended from Satan? Tell that to the Cainite. They are, his decendants.

According to George Carlin, last evening on Leno, the Catholics are the only one's without a Bomb, since Vatican City is to too small to Support Testing.

The Abrahamists want to make you believe this life is all there is, which is precisely the technique used by Satan in tempting Jesus himself in your bible. Did he try to convince Jesus about the nature of his soul? Did Satan try to advance the premise of rebirth, ever? Does the bible discuss rebirth at all? NO because the Abrahamists will never speak of it.

No, You maybe confused here. To be absent of THIS BODY, is to be present before the Lord. We return to our prior state, our Spiritual State, and reside in 1 of 2 places. Either in Heaven, or outside of Heaven. Those outside, could be the likes of Hitler, Stalin, and other notable bad guy's. Those inside, would have their names written in the Book of Life. (And this has Nothing to do with Judgement).

So, when this Body we have has expired, we have our Spiritual Body, that departs for the rest of eternity to be spent with God. Life is not all there is, and the only reason, this life takes place, is to give the Eternal Spirit, a chance to utilize, Free Will. It is that choice, that defines our destination.

This is noted in the Bible, this is explained in the Bible, so it is no wonder 'Abrahmist's' as you wish to define them (assuming you mean Jewish, Christians and Islamist) see the need, to discuss it.

I asked you to describe how demons work and you cannot.

Excuse me. You have asked, without Scripture, to be told what I think. I have done so, in the best manner that I can. I am not the Word of God, nor do I represent the Word of God. The Word of God alone, does this on it's own behalf and has done a wonderful job of it. I am only pointing out, what is obviously overlooked, when given the chance. I've seen Christians in here, state ASSININE things that they Presume IS IN THE BIBLE, and take the time to attempt to noted what the Bible actually does say about a Topic. I have seen Skeptics as well, that make ASSININE comments about the Bible, and again, extend the opportunity to address those concerns, by noting, AGAIN, what the Bible actually has to say about those Topics.

If afforded the same here, I could post for a week steady, giving direction for those who may be interested in learning, but you denied any, that, by asking not to be Scriptured at, which I have respected.

Now do not take that as an insult, because I only used it as an example. You are asking very good questions, and have not falsly implied something that is not in the Bible, is. At least you seem to have taken some time to consider the matter. As for that matter. you seem to have good knowledge of the Bible, and what is noted in it. I think that maybe you actually do know these answers, that you are asking me about, but that's fine.

And I would ask? Have you looked at my Topic, Satan and his decendants? This is how Satan and the Fallen and thier Spawn work Pal.

Yearning for the "goal" of heavenly rest with God sounds similar to the Jihadist who is so convinced that he'll blow himself up.

No, that maybe your prespective, but it's misplaced.

Are there demons in his head confusing him also?

Of course it is. That is Satan, at his best. Twisting nd manipulating for the desired effect, that is evident in your following comments.

Are all Abrahamists going to somehow hold hands in Heaven? If so, then why are they causing so much crap here on Earth?

Shake your head and quit associating it all as evil. There are very Nice Moslems, and there are very nice Jews, and there are very nice Christians. Not all are extremist under Satan's control and spin. Of course some are, but they do not represent these Faiths. ((They Claim to, but I noted about that above already.)

Nah, I don't need the bible to be able to recognize evil when I see it.

I am sure you are pleased to note this with comfort and security that you are correct, but I can not help but think you are wrong. I am not saying you are, but I think you are. Why? You deny the evil you wish to recognize. To you, Satan is a fabrication. And yes, thats exactly what He WANTS YOU TO CONTINUE TO BELIEVE.

As I mentioned, the original Christians accepted rebirth as being a Christian truth.

Is this the basis of your confusion? To be Born Again? I am asking, because this may be the conflict that has lead to these questions you raise. Let me know, because, YES, 100%, Christian believe in being reborn, as in Born Again, but this is not reflective in a Rebirth, in the sense you imply. It's a completely different matter, that really is a strange way of identifying they have accept Christ as their personal saviour, and dedicated their life to trying to live as Christ lived his life. None can, but the goal is a good one.

I really enjoy you questions, and remember, Look at my post on Satan.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Shane
I'd say again, your very observant. The "Church" fails in teaching God's Word. It teaches the Doctrines of the Sect. Is this a manifestation of Demonic influence? OF COURSE IT IS. What do those TWO churches in Revelation Teach? They taught, "WHO THE CAINITE IS". Those, (in this case), who claim to be Jewish, but are of their Father, SATAN. (Paraphrased)

Do you get this my friend? The direct and specific implication of the early portion of Revelations speaks to this. 2 Churches taught who the CAINITE IS.

No, I don't get it. I've not heard of the term "Cainite". These are Cain's (Satans?) descendants? Also I don't see John's revelation at Patmos to be any more special than Nostradamus or anything like that. I do not see it as prophecy and it seems derivative from other works which John surely read like the Book of Enoch. If you are plotting your life course according to a book, I'd recommend something much more inspired and much more beautiful like the Bagavad Gita.

You do know that most of the Old Testament was made up by the Levites in Babylonian captivity? You realize that the whole Eden story is pagan in origin? It looks to me like the Levites gilded their history to make it seem more wonderful. I mean really, wandering through the wilderness for forty years with a portable temple as described? It's ludicrous and could not have been done. The whole exodus is fabricated IMO.

No, You maybe confused here. To be absent of THIS BODY, is to be present before the Lord. We return to our prior state, our Spiritual State, and reside in 1 of 2 places. Either in Heaven, or outside of Heaven. Those outside, could be the likes of Hitler, Stalin, and other notable bad guy's. Those inside, would have their names written in the Book of Life. (And this has Nothing to do with Judgement).

So, when this Body we have has expired, we have our Spiritual Body, that departs for the rest of eternity to be spent with God. Life is not all there is, and the only reason, this life takes place, is to give the Eternal Spirit, a chance to utilize, Free Will. It is that choice, that defines our destination.

Okay so let me see if I understand:

We have lived as souls, but this life here on Earth, circa 2006 is our ONE and ONLY birth. In this one single lifetime, with all the trappings of life and distractions, we have ONE and ONLY one chance to excercise free will either toward worship of YHWH (in which case we win) or ourselves (in which case we lose). Is that right?

Why is it then, that Satan (a glorious angel who rebelled?) was able to excercise free will in heaven? Why do we need to incarnate to have our "free will test" when Satan didn't need that? Why is incarnation necessary for us to have the "free will test"? Also, it seems like you are suggesting (as the JWs do) that YHWH ceded power to a lesser god. YHWH is basically stepping into the background to run his little test.

And of course this theory of yours doesn't address the question of humanity, now does it? There is no way for the majority of humans to find Christ since more than half of them are in Asia and unreachable. For some holy reason, disciples were not sent to Asia, but rather stuck around greece and rome, etc.

This is what you believe?

And I would ask? Have you looked at my Topic, Satan and his decendants? This is how Satan and the Fallen and thier Spawn work Pal.

No, but I'm sure when you explain it to me, it'll all make sense.

Shake your head and quit associating it all as evil. There are very Nice Moslems, and there are very nice Jews, and there are very nice Christians. Not all are extremist under Satan's control and spin. Of course some are, but they do not represent these Faiths. ((They Claim to, but I noted about that above already.)

Moslems and Jews hate each other because they both claim the abrahamic line. BUT what they really work hardest at (since they both actually do rule the world) is to bury and destroy the idea of rebirth and the wheel of life. They hate hindus and buddhists far more because the idea of god-nature in every human is abhorrent to them. Also I would say that Christ worship is repackaged Judaism anyway since his lineage is what made him the Messiah.... Or was it?

To me, Jesus was divine because the gospel was preserved and his parables are divine. It was Paul who actually took Jesus' words and built Christ worship into what Jesus DID NOT want, namely a church. Paul was the Tony Robbins of his day.

I am sure you are pleased to note this with comfort and security that you are correct, but I can not help but think you are wrong. I am not saying you are, but I think you are. Why? You deny the evil you wish to recognize. To you, Satan is a fabrication. And yes, thats exactly what He WANTS YOU TO CONTINUE TO BELIEVE.

To believe in an omnipotent God with human characteristics (and childish ones at that) is one thing, but to then create a nemesis for Him and have Him cede power to that Nemesis? No, this is all just humans projecting their own human fears and wishes onto God. God is not like us, we are like God.

Is this the basis of your confusion? To be Born Again? I am asking, because this may be the conflict that has lead to these questions you raise. Let me know, because, YES, 100%, Christian believe in being reborn, as in Born Again, but this is not reflective in a Rebirth, in the sense you imply. It's a completely different matter, that really is a strange way of identifying they have accept Christ as their personal saviour, and dedicated their life to trying to live as Christ lived his life. None can, but the goal is a good one.

I am using Jesus' words to describe his allusions to the wheel of life and the process of soul evolution. If you read his words separate from the rest of the bible, it becomes clear. To me, what is truly amazing is what Jesus did NOT say.

Your view of salvation or the "free will test", IMO, damns most humans to not knowing God, which is impossible. A fair and just creator would give each and every human an equal chance to find Him. IMO God does this by programming us with an inquisitive mind and a soul which actually knows the truth. The idea of Christians being "born again" seems overly emotional and still locks them into the unfortunate worldview where they have only this life to solve all their questions. IMO, that view is intellectually weak andfar too simple. It doesn't give God enough credit, frankly.

I really enjoy you questions, and remember, Look at my post on Satan.

I respect you Shane, and I am sorry if I lack tact at times. You just caught my attention by somehow equating the JW worldview to your own and the comment "our moslem brothers" in the same post. Having grown up as a JW, I find their whole worldview, and their church, to be evil. I also can tell you that not ONCE in my entire lifetime of JW brainwashing did I ever hear them mention the other half of the Abrahamite power-structure. JWs will never, ever, discuss or give credence to Moslems.

When I look at the world, I see it as being controlled by Abrahamists. They are creating an insanely controlling and ungodly world. The Jews have some kind of stupid fetish about codified law, and the Moslems can't stop chopping people's limbs off and herding their women like cattle. Then there's the Christians, some of whom are good (worship Christ individually) but most of whom are drones and emotion-addicts. Am I so wrong to yearn for a world where we can all take responsibility for our past, present and future and where YHWH and Satan aren't playing us like pieces on a chessboard?

[edit on 17-6-2006 by smallpeeps]

One of the things that has been in the back of my head since the movie "Passion of the Christ"

It was when Jesus was carrying the cross and as he was walking; Lucifer was walking parallel to jesus. He never said a word but he never let his eyes off Jesus.

Im not sure if this was Gibson's intent or not but; I felt in that moment that; what the devil was saying to Jesus through his gaze was:
'I am going to use your own word to corrupt the world'.

How much death has been caused in the 2000 years since Jesus died; in his name?
If there is a Devil and God I would think there would be no better way to take the world then through the word of God. This may yet be one of Satans greatest tricks(the greatest being: his greatest trick is convincing the world he doesnt exist.)

just a thought

Originally posted by smallpeeps
No, I don't get it. I've not heard of the term "Cainite". These are Cain's (Satans?) descendants?

Yes. And Satan is Cain's Father.

Also I don't see John's revelation at Patmos to be any more special than Nostradamus or anything like that. I do not see it as prophecy and it seems derivative from other works which John surely read like the Book of Enoch.

And from my prespective TODAY, we are seeing Revelations unfold.

Okay so let me see if I understand: Is that right?

Somewhat, but not excatly. We can work on that later

Why is it then, that Satan (a glorious angel who rebelled?) was able to excercise free will in heaven? Why do we need to incarnate to have our "free will test" when Satan didn't need that? This is what you believe?

He has no free will. He is bound by and under GOD's authority. His will do as instructed, but unsupervised, he has been naughty.

No, but I'm sure when you explain it to me, it'll all make sense.

Well, if thats the case, here you go, I have no intent on posting 3 more pages in here (This Topic) when it is mostly covered in the following.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Give it a read. I know you will not accept this, and I will say, neither will many Christians, but that's not my concern. Someone will.

Moslems and Jews hate each other because they both claim the abrahamic line. BUT what they really work hardest at (since they both actually do rule the world) is to bury and destroy the idea of rebirth and the wheel of life. They hate hindus and buddhists far more because the idea of god-nature in every human is abhorrent to them. Also I would say that Christ worship is repackaged Judaism anyway since his lineage is what made him the Messiah.... Or was it?

And there we return to the Topic here. It's all a Ruse, a Scam, based on deciet and manipulations to distort the basic message, and turn it into a Hate thing. That is the hard and dedicated work of Satan and his followers.

To me, Jesus was divine because the gospel was preserved and his parables are divine. It was Paul who actually took Jesus' words and built Christ worship into what Jesus DID NOT want, namely a church. Paul was the Tony Robbins of his day.

I would say this.

#1 Christ, with his own hands built the First place of worship to God, in Glastonbury England, while he was a young Lad until he returned to the Middle East to start his 3 years of ministery. He lived with his 'Father', Joseph, and Mother Mary, in the Glastonbury area. Joseph of Aramethia, is a relatived to Mary, and had several Tin Mines in England and resided there. Mary is buried there, and a Chruch is on the site today.
#2 Paul, taught the Gospel.
#3 Paul was a Billy Graham of his Day.

But, in closing, do not mistake my early notations, before we got inthis discussion, as any support for the J.W.. I was suggesting they believe Jesus was a Man, just like our Muslim Brothers, who echo this. They did/do not consider him Devine, but a Man. Like Mohammed

And still, it matters very little to me, if our Muslim and Jewish Brothers do not get along. I still know, they are family. If only those clouds of confusion could be lifted, there would be a completely new world, but of course, those days are ahead.

Ciao

Shane

Shane: what are your bases for claiming Jesus passage in England ? (just curious)

OP,

if you do not believe in Christianity then how come you believe that Satan exists?

Originally posted by masterp
OP,

if you do not believe in Christianity then how come you believe that Satan exists?

I believe Satan exists as an Ideological figure not as an actual hooved foot; horned headed beast. Of course My beliefs and reality could be two totally different things. But then again so could christianity or jews, muslims, hindus, etc.
Thats just it; noone knows. The world religions, for all of they're rhetoric, know no more then we do. No one knows until they cross from the mortal plane.
I believe in Christianity but no more or less then any other of the major religions. Even some of the not so major religions.

I believe that all religions(of light and virtue and etc..) are just different roads to the same place; if followed with proper devotion.

hope that helps

the only thing that scares me about christianity is that you must accept Jesus as God, thus breaking the first commandment. other monotheistic religions base your salvation on your relationship with the father. Sure you have prophets, (Muhammad, Moses, Jesus) but they are secondary relationships. In christianity it seems that your relationship with the father is secondary. Almost like some self important lackey positioning himself between you and the boss saying you can only know the boss through me. Now I don't think that this is what Jesus wanted. I don't think Jesus wanted to be a God like figure. He often spoke of his father, in third person I might add, which wouldn't make since if he himself were God. I don't recall Jesus ever telling people to pray to him. Reading about what Jesus said during his life in books like matthew and mark is quite different then what was revealed to saul/paul and the apostles after his death in visions and dreams. I find it odd that he would say one thing with his mouth and another through dreams. Maybe these "visions" were'nt from Jesus? What a perfect plan. Wait till Jesus dies and then Highjack his cause. It's not like God or Jesus is going to intervene and say that these things are not the truth. if that was the case, we would have only one "true" religion and none of us would be having this discussion.

Originally posted by MikePhil
Shane: what are your bases for claiming Jesus passage in England ? (just curious)

Just a quick Reply.

Jesus had to live somewhere, and from the first "reintroduction" to John the Baptist, it appears his cousin, (John the Baptist and Jesus are Cousins) has no clue who Jesus was, at first glance.

So it appears Jesus of Nazareth, was not living in such a Place.

Now we swing to Glastonbury, and Joseph of Aramethia. He was a miner, and land owner in England. A Mariner Merchant. Quite wealthy, all things considered, and the one who coughed up the Tomb in Jerusalem for Christ. He is also related to Mary.

Looking at Glastonbury, there is "Traditions" indicating Christ, as a child, and Young Man, lived there.

E Raymond Capp, has also put together a small book, called the Traditions of Glastonbury, which brings many of these 'Tales' together.

There is a Pub in Glastonburg, who's Crest or Coat of Arms is Joesph of Aramethia with a Small "Christ" in the Boat coming to Shore.

There are Songs of this as well, speaking of Christ walking in the meadows of England.

There are "sayings" that became more frequently used in more current times, regarding the "Hippie" types coming to Glastonbury for the Pagan Festivials, that are made concerning Young Males, who have exceeding long Hair, and comparing this to Christ.

There is again, the Church in Glastonbury, which Tradition suggests, Christ and his Step Dad, Joseph the Carpenter, built for Mary. It is also the Grounds where Mary, is reportedly buried, along with 3 or 4 of the 12 Deciples.

Of course, the only evidence resided within Joseph of Aramethia's land holdings in this area, and reported or traditionalized accounts in respects to Christ.

This is something that there is no record of or background to support, that can be found within Israel itself.

As far as I am concerned, it is also one of the reasons, PAUL, in a speculated account refered to as Acts 29, (The Missing Chapter) found Christianity was already there, in England, when he went and ministered in the Spot of St Paul's Cathedral in London. (You have to wonder why St Paul's Cathedral is called St Pauls Cathedral). Christ had Taught the Local's prior to Paul's Visit.

Is this Gospel? NO
Is it Verified and Factual? Somewhat
Is it possible? YES
Can records be studied to confirm this? Subjectively
Is there evidence of Joseph of Aramethia and his Land? YES
Where was Christ from say 12 to 30? Glastonbury?

But I will say, much of this is based on Tradition, Lore and Legend. I do tend to believe this, apposed to the suggestion he lived NOWHERE.

I also find it convienent that in this Period of time, the 1990's and on, Glastonbury has become the Mecca of U.K. Pagan and Occultism. Much like the Dome of the Rock, hiding the Temple?

But E Raymond Capp. does cover this in depth, as he does in other subjects, like the Lost Tribes of Dan and Zebulon, being today, Denmark and Holland respectively

Ciao

Shane

True Christianity is FAITH,to believe!

Christianity now and days,was turned into a SUN GOD

jesus died on the cross that was pointed to the SUn
jesus had 3 kings/wisemen
jesus died 3 days later
was resurrected
Jesus died at 33 with is 3 mirroreed by another 3

its all the map i drew from all religion decoding every religion as science the ultimate god=devil the SUN!

Jesus is faith!
Jesus says not to worship religion!
Jesus says always to believe!

not to follow a god
all and every dumb sun god has the same dumb stuff and miracless....

miracles come from science because its magick....
they want us to worship the sun as the holy light of all....
but then i keep telling these daemons,how come i can see in my sleep without the sun?
how come i can have visions with my eyes closed without the sun?
and i tell them daemons,if your sun/science is the TRTH,then please take out your dumb ass compass and ruler and take letters and numbers and please try to turn them into your daemoon symbols and MEASURE what i see!

Daemons tell me and cry to me,we cant do that and you know that!

Trth is Faith TRTH = U
Jesus is in all of us,it daemons that keep jesus out!



[edit on 7-6-2008 by meanmug]

reply to post by meanmug



Not to blow holes into your idea, but there is no where in the Bible that states that 3 magi, aka Wisemen, visited Jesus. They definitely were not Kings. Magi were ancient Astrologers of the Zoroastrain Faith from Persia. There are a unknown number of Magi who bring him three different kinds of gifts though: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.

If look into you Zoroastrian beliefs, one could infer that the Magi thought Jesus was Mithras. Seems alot of Romans, who practiced Mithraism, got confused by that later on too. That would mean they thought Jesus was a Persian Sun god.

Anyway, the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is most definitely not a Sun god. In fact G-d warns the Israelites not to worship the Sun, Moon and the Stars, the Host of Heaven, which have been assigned to various nations/peoples. That, the Sabaoth and the Seventy Nations of Men, in itself is whole other topic. Well probably two topics, one for the Sabaoth, aka the Hosts of the Heavens, and another for the Seventy Nations that descended from Noah.

"And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your G-d has allotted to all nations under the whole heaven." Deuteronomy 4:19

Please....

Dont quote or tell me your religiion!

Take someone elses bliefs and shove them up your ...............MIND!

Have fun with Science....

Jesus said dont worship any God,any Religion,Any Science....

Jesus said,Love Myself Because Therefor....I AM

Jesus=Believing,thats all,not someone elses FORCED APON BULLSH!T!