Artificial uterus versus surrogant motherhood

Hello ATS!

Now a new trend in Europe is an artificial uterus. The previous trend, surrogate, is no longer in fashion. How does this affect motherhood and demographics? At the same time, on the standard of living.

Let's take Switzerland. The birth rate in Switzerland has decreased from 1.39 to 1.33 children on average per woman. For Swiss citizens, the total fertility rate decreases from 1.29 to 1.23, and for foreigners from 1.64 to 1.57

In this regard, I read a fairly accurate discussion about an artificial uterus:

"Some techno-optimists believe that the invention of an artificial womb solves the problem of guaranteed mass depopulation. They apparently do not pay attention to the fact that 9 months of pregnancy are only the first few percent of the time period during which parents will have to take care of their child The example of Switzerland is extremely illustrative. The standard of living is incredibly high: per capita nominal GDP and per capita GDP at PPP are $98,800 and $88,000 (for comparison, in Russia $13,000 and $35,300). Thus, with the income level of an ordinary Swiss married couple, hundreds of millions people all over the world can be considered as inexpensive surrogate materials. But instead of the demographic renaissance of the TFR, the country's citizens have collapsed to the level of Japan."

I can add.

In fact, ultra-high per capita GDP also means ultra-high expenses for children. The same nannies will have to pay 40 euros per hour, which is the same 86,400 euros per year, subject to an 8-hour working day, 365 days a year.
The Swiss have almost no home of their own. For example, 85% of the population of the 900 thousand canton of Basel rent housing.Around 85% of the local population in the Canton of Basel-Stadt rent their houses and apartments. That is, rent at extra prices is added to the expenses. Where a one-room apartment without furniture costs 1000 euros per month.

Well, the costs for an artificial uterus will initially be higher than for a surrogate mother. And even if the technology is fully adopted, the price will still be higher than that of a surrogate mother, since the supervision of highly qualified specialists is higher.

The only thing an artificial uterus can do is to slightly reduce the price of surrogacy. Because some clients will go to her.

So whether they invent an artificial uterus or not, it will not affect fertility in any way.

What is your opinion?

Thank you.

This is something our young people will have to figure out on their own; I left my fertility at the Change of Life Chaple on Menopause Lane.

Not thinking about the cost I wonder what an artificial womb baby will be like when birthed ?

When a child is with it's mother for the first 9 months of assistance the child hears and feels many things from external stimulus the mother experiences.

Artificial Womb... I at least hope the pump in some decent elevator music or maybe a comedy sitcom...otherwise no telling what is gonna come out after 9 months..

a reply to: RussianTroll

I'm inclined to think in the likes of the In Vitro's "Tanks" from "Space Above And Beyond".

Of interest in this topic -
Catholic church condemns surrogacy ... that includes artificial wombs, I"m sure.

USCCB - Surrogacy is an Injustice to All Involved

“Pope Francis strongly condemned the practice of surrogacy calling it ‘a grave violation of the dignity of the woman and the child.’ He emphasized that a child is a gift and as such can ‘never (be) the basis of a commercial contract.’ Surrogacy represents the commodification and instrumentalization of a woman’s body, treating her as a ‘carrier’ rather than a human person. And just as troubling is the fact that the child is reduced to terms of buying and selling as an object of human trafficking.

a reply to: FlyersFan

And just as troubling is the fact that the child is reduced to terms of buying and selling as an object of human trafficking.

The thing is the Bible addresses slavery in several passages and even contains laws regulating the sad act of depravity.

Primarily in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy.

So people in glass houses and all that jazz Mr Pope.

Also one has to question what the hell does the Pope know about surrogacy?

To be rather frank i would not imagine much.

a reply to: andy06shake

I find myself disagreeing with 'Pope Francis' more often than not. However, they do have a point. Surrogacy could be seen as reducing the human child to a commodity. It can bring a child to a couple that wants it but can't otherwise have it, but it also does bring $$$ into a transaction involving a human child. I don't have a position on this but the point about 'commodity' can be made.

originally posted by: RussianTroll

The only thing an artificial uterus can do is to slightly reduce the price of surrogacy. Because some clients will go to her.

So whether they invent an artificial uterus or not, it will not affect fertility in any way.

What is your opinion?

Thank you.

We have talked about population many times on ATS and the real path will go two directions to get back to 2.1 children per woman. You bring up EU and there are plenty of places cheap to live, but it seems the more North you go the more expensive it is. I'm also not sure what you mean by rent or own as with or without kids' people still need a place to live. I have always gone by the rule that every odd kid increases cost, so of course the first one, but the second one does not change much. When you get the third one then things like house car etc. can change, and then you get number four and you already upgraded with the third.

The two directions we will see are either forced or incentive-based. A good example of force is in China where they just dictate that every woman will have two kids and three will make you a hero of the homeland, and we know they are deep into social grading. If we look back at their one-child rule we see a good example of what a forced two-child rule would look like.

The Second incentive will be money. If the Government said, we would pay 15,000 per year per kid along with other incentives like tax write-offs, daycare etc. we would have a baby explosion in the West.

I see Russia with a mix of both in forced but not at the level that China would go and also offer incentives with that social grading.

No need for fake uteruses and surrogate mothers as they are just for rich women would want to keep their figure and couples who want children but can't have them. In both cases, they want to have children which is completely the opposite of what you are talking about where women and couples just do not want them because of life choices.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Have to say i don't see surrogacy predominantly being a bad thing simply down to the likes of infertility, and medical conditions like a hysterectomy for instance.

As to artificial wombs, well they will be a tool, and just like any other tool, the purpose to which they are set will have moral implications.

The fact is we are all a commodity of sorts, hence the reason when we are registered at birth we are issued the likes of social security and national insurance numbers.

That being said, obviously there is a point to be made, and we should all object to human trafficking.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Of interest in this topic -
Catholic church condemns surrogacy ... that includes artificial wombs, I"m sure.

USCCB - Surrogacy is an Injustice to All Involved

“Pope Francis strongly condemned the practice of surrogacy calling it ‘a grave violation of the dignity of the woman and the child.’ He emphasized that a child is a gift and as such can ‘never (be) the basis of a commercial contract.’ Surrogacy represents the commodification and instrumentalization of a woman’s body, treating her as a ‘carrier’ rather than a human person. And just as troubling is the fact that the child is reduced to terms of buying and selling as an object of human trafficking.

Pope Francis.

LMAO!

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

I know .. I know .. I don't like the guy either. In fact, I STRONGLY can't stand him. But the paper made a good point about people becoming a commodity and we need to be careful about that. Something to watch out for.