Are you a BAMN never Trumper? And is that a bad thing?

a reply to: network dude

Okay I decided to rejoin the site just to reply to this thread. I was a member previously. Something happened to my account about the time there was some server event. I wasn't on that frequently but I tried to log in one day, it told me I couldn't access my account and they I started reading about some server event. Alas, I took the time today to rejoin so here I am...lol

Will quickly describe me as an individual, so that folks know where I'm coming from. I would classify myself as a left-leaning moderate. 1 wife....1 kid, and we are both career orientated individuals who make an above average income. Here is usually where someone pipes up and asks "why aren't you guys card carrying right-wingers then?" lol I don't base decions on a bias, I base them on fact, reality and science.

Anyway, this topic piqued my interest because under no circumstances would I ever vote for Trump. I voted Biden last time, and honestly I feel the country needs a change. So would I vote for a Republican candidate? Yes, absolutely. If the Republicans ran Haley, I'd vote for her over Biden in a literal heartbeat. Run Trump, and I have to stick with Biden.

One of things that interests me most about political parties is that they do not want the same things. I'm a firm believer that most countries need far more moderates willing to compromise than extremists. Compromise is how things get done. But because the goals of the 2 parties are so far apart now, it's almost like the moderates are running out of things to compromise on.

Anyway back to the topic at hand, I would never vote Trump because of 2 reasons. One, I think he represents far too many extremist ideas. The kind of ideals where there is no room for compromise....no room for negotiation. And to me those kind of ideals, on either side, are a deal breaker for me. Secondly, Trump has too much baggage at this point. Trump was not well respected the first time around by other world leaders, and he sure won't be respected around the world this time either. Organizations like the Central Bank in the EU are already issuing dire warnings as to what happens if he gets in again. Those on the right will respond with "So who cares, we want who's best for America and eff the rest of the world." Those on the left will respond that "Our leader has to be someone who can work with, and is respected by other world leaders in order to get anything done."

Always happy to debate in a thoughtful, respectful manner, but I fit this thread perfectly. My wife and I will NEVER vote Trump, and no we don't think it's a bad thing. Again, we're not "Anti-Republican" just anti-Trump.

Sorry if my first post back is a bit long, it's been a while...

a reply to: VoiceofReality

I can appreciate your opinion, and thanks for such a thoughtful reply. Please don't take the question as antagonistic, I truly want to know. Would you continue down a dark dismal path on purpose just to avoid Trump, and if so, why? What extremists ideas are most concerning to you?

a reply to: VoiceofReality

LOL...well you might not have a choice this time. Bidens looking like he will be out of the running soon due to his diminished mental state that is preventing him from being charged for documents.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: VoiceofReality

I can appreciate your opinion, and thanks for such a thoughtful reply. Please don't take the question as antagonistic, I truly want to know. Would you continue down a dark dismal path on purpose just to avoid Trump, and if so, why? What extremists ideas are most concerning to you?

But that's the thing, I don't consider it a dark and dismal path. Choosing Trump, in my humble opinion, would be the dark and dismal path to choose. Even considering the differences between the left and right ideologies. Again I'm not saying I'd never vote right again, but with the correct candidate. Someone who can compromise on issues to benefit us all. That person is not Trump . That person will never be Trump.

To me, and again my personal opinion, a candidate who as already been impeached twice, is facing 91 indictments, would not concede losing a free and fair election, etc. etc. should never be President again.

a reply to: VoiceofReality

How fascinating

To me, and again my personal opinion, a candidate who as already been impeached twice, is facing 91 indictments, would not concede losing a free and fair election, etc. etc. should never be President again.

This regurgitation of the exact talking points they bank on their audience falling for.

All in one sentence that even I am impressed by the efficiency.

Nevermind that impeachment 1 was a demonstrably provable hoax and that oddly, no one currently or historically has been held to the same standard of justice.


Today of all days at that with Hurs report Bidens speech and Tuckers Putin interview.

A new low has been met this day.

a reply to: VoiceofReality

I would never vote Trump because of 2 reasons. One, I think he represents far too many extremist ideas. The kind of ideals where there is no room for compromise....no room for negotiation. And to me those kind of ideals, on either side, are a deal breaker for me.

Far too many extremist ideas?

Are they too extreme to even begin to demonstrate a few of them to us?

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: JinMI

I'll make an exception for the special treatment.

I think they have deemed him a threat to national security for how he uses misinformation as a way to promote himself.

He has instigated a culture where my mere suggesting he used misinformation will cause the reactions I masochistically enjoy in these threads.

What if the "stolen election" was actually fair? What if my suggestion that he used a falsehood is founded in reality? Then it's calling him out, and the divide is being caused by his followers being unable to admit he is wrong and lost.

To counter, do you accept a world where that was a fair election?

The implications there is using anything to sew seeds that the election was undemocratic is the undemocratic move. So if it was fair, he subverts democracy saying it wasn't.

From that perspective, he's earned being singled out.

You just have to dare to uphold the fairness of the election, which I do, hence my criticism of him.

Had he gracefully lost, and just kept himself relevant without the deliberate subversion (in my mind) I'd have no criticism of Trump whatsoever. My criticism of him has solidified under Biden and his refusal to accept the outcome.

It's classless. To refuse to lose, and then make the country belligerent in sympathy to your cause is threatening.

Where I obviously differ is, I don't think that even false opinions should be censored. I'm here playing, and support your right to call me a blind liberal over what I just said.

But I'm gonna f*cking say it.

The election was fair. His deliberate playing of the country to those ends constitutes a subversion of democracy more than the one he tells people has happened.

And that projection move seems his goto.

And I've read all evidence. Over 2500000 questionable ballots, and evidence used, and I agree with the judges opinion on the rulings. They were made to seem damning. But they reminded me of the logical problems where there is not enough information to conclude definitively.

He didn't win one. Conservative judges that voted for him shot him down.

But that's my criticism. It's personal stupid crap like that.

Fab Post

QFT

originally posted by: VoiceofReality

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: VoiceofReality

I can appreciate your opinion, and thanks for such a thoughtful reply. Please don't take the question as antagonistic, I truly want to know. Would you continue down a dark dismal path on purpose just to avoid Trump, and if so, why? What extremists ideas are most concerning to you?

But that's the thing, I don't consider it a dark and dismal path. Choosing Trump, in my humble opinion, would be the dark and dismal path to choose. Even considering the differences between the left and right ideologies. Again I'm not saying I'd never vote right again, but with the correct candidate. Someone who can compromise on issues to benefit us all. That person is not Trump . That person will never be Trump.

To me, and again my personal opinion, a candidate who as already been impeached twice, is facing 91 indictments, would not concede losing a free and fair election, etc. etc. should never be President again.

so it's the cases against him and his personality that you are against, not his policy? You don't have to answer, and you have been very polite, so I will try not to be my usual snarky self (I'm sometimes an ass). But you had said you were concerned with his extremist ideas. Can you explain what that means?

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: VoiceofReality

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: VoiceofReality

I can appreciate your opinion, and thanks for such a thoughtful reply. Please don't take the question as antagonistic, I truly want to know. Would you continue down a dark dismal path on purpose just to avoid Trump, and if so, why? What extremists ideas are most concerning to you?

But that's the thing, I don't consider it a dark and dismal path. Choosing Trump, in my humble opinion, would be the dark and dismal path to choose. Even considering the differences between the left and right ideologies. Again I'm not saying I'd never vote right again, but with the correct candidate. Someone who can compromise on issues to benefit us all. That person is not Trump . That person will never be Trump.

To me, and again my personal opinion, a candidate who as already been impeached twice, is facing 91 indictments, would not concede losing a free and fair election, etc. etc. should never be President again.

so it's the cases against him and his personality that you are against, not his policy? You don't have to answer, and you have been very polite, so I will try not to be my usual snarky self (I'm sometimes an ass). But you had said you were concerned with his extremist ideas. Can you explain what that means?

It's everything really. It's his policies, the crimes he has (purportedly) committed (Innocent until proven guilty), it's his personality, it's his arrogance, it's his denial of reality. Everything really. I can't think of much I like about the man or the candidate.

Extremist in that he is not willing to compromise on anything. He wanted the border fixed. A bill came through to help fix the border, and he had all his minions shoot it down. Okay so because it wasn't solved his way, he's against fixing the border now? In general I'm also for doing what we can to fight climate change.....something Trump has NEVER supported. He fights every green initiative that is even talked about. But it's not the fact that he doesn't believe in the science behind it, lots of people don't, it's the fact that he won't even consider compromising on it. Same as the border policy. It's fixed his or not at all.

But as time goes on, we lose the ability to actually compromise on things and both sides go further and further to the extremes. Which is why I say I would vote Republican, just not for Trump. I view a candidate like Haley as someone the left could work with. Trump goes out of his way to ensure he is disliked enough that no one would ever want to work with him/compromise with him on any issue.

This country WILL fall apart unless both parties start meeting in the middle and compromising on issues that will improve the lives of the average American. Neither the extreme left or the extreme right will do that.

Again, just my humble opinion.

a reply to: VoiceofReality

the bill to "fix" the border was going to allow 5 thousand a day to be released into the US. They claimed if the numbers rose above the 5 thousand, they would "shut down the border", well, if they can do that, why not shut it down now? And why do we need almost 2 million illegals turned into the country each year? Why not protect the border and fix the immigration system so we know who's coming in and why.

The bill was a bad one, and didn't need to be voted on. It needed to be scrapped, and it was. And Trump isn't president, and there were even democrats voting no on this one.

Many of us think climate change is being used for a redistribution of wealth, and not for it's advertised intent. Trump also thinks like that. Those who don't might not like it, but remember, those of us who don't see it as the existential threat it's being billed as don't like when all the money is poured into it, and unproven technology is forced on us. it's important to understand there are two sides in that, and both may not be totally right.

IMHO